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TheBoulder

For GMs - lessons from the past - minor spoilers

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Hey peeps, quick question, I'm going to run the core book and GM Kit adventures together. At the beginning of the GMs adventure, it says the players can use the hilts they got in Lessons From The Past and combine them with the crystals in this adventure to construct sabers...

I can find no mention of hilts at all in the core book adventure... Am I missing something?

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I just scanned the adventure, and I didn't find anything either.  I guess the holocron in the Sanctuary's safe gives them instructions on how to construct them?

 

Alas, it's frustratingly not the first time I've seen this kind of oversight or logic in a FFG adventure product.  Don't get me wrong, I think FFG produces great material, but sometimes there are oversights pretty substantial in the final product that make running the adventures really frustrating.

 

I commend you for getting familiar with the adventure prior to running it.

Edited by LethalDose

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I think what they mean is, as LethalDose said, the holocron you find on the ship will give the players the knowledge to build hilts.

 

The GM section of the GM Kit adventure talks about lightsaber construction, and the gist is that the other parts of a lightsaber as pretty easy to find - a material for the hilt itself, a power cell, and a few other things you could pick up without arousing suspicion. The two big hurdles are finding a crystal, and knowing what to do once you have all the parts.

 

So the adventure is probably assuming that the players collected the other necessary parts after Lessons from the Past, and now they just need a crystal to slot in.

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It the risk of getting in trouble with FFG:

I don't have the finished book yet (arrives tomorrow) but in the playtest version of Lessons, there were some hilts hidden away with the holocron.

Huh, interesting, perhaps that's where the confusion lies. There is just the holocron in the safe now.

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It the risk of getting in trouble with FFG:

I don't have the finished book yet (arrives tomorrow) but in the playtest version of Lessons, there were some hilts hidden away with the holocron.

 

Pg. 438 sidebar. Holocron gives the players the info on how to build a lightsaber to knock the difficulty from 4 to 2, using the optional lightsaber creation rules.

 

So, the sidebar on 438 says if the GM doesn't want to combine the adventures, you can just put 2 basic lightsabers into the vault.  Its reasonable to assume you could just put hilts in there, instead.  That sounds like it's been changed since the playtest version.

 

The sidebar also states that the information to assemble hilts can be found in Val Isa's holocron (more or less resolving this thread), but says nothing about changing the difficulty.  Maybe that's included in the GM kit?

Edited by LethalDose

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Pg. 438 sidebar. Holocron gives the players the info on how to build a lightsaber to knock the difficulty from 4 to 2, using the optional lightsaber creation rules.

 

So, the sidebar on 438 says if the GM doesn't want to combine the adventures, you can just put 2 basic lightsabers into the vault.  Its reasonable to assume you could just put hilts in there, instead.  That sounds like it's been changed since the playtest version.

 

The sidebar also states that the information to assemble hilts can be found in Val Isa's holocron (more or less resolving this thread), but says nothing about changing the difficulty.  Maybe that's included in the GM kit?

 

 

GM Kit rules are basically that it's 2 difficulty to build a hilt. If they GM wants to make it harder because the players shouldn't know how to build a lightsaber, then to up it to 4 difficulty until they learn.

 

And if you're using the GM Kit rules, players would likely try to just build their own hilts anyways to try and go for the increased HP from Triumphs and the guaranteed bonus free mod to an attachment anyways, so it'd probably be of more interest to players to find a small cache of credits for those who fail/don't want to try the Streetwise check to just find the parts they need.

Edited by Lathrop

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[...] it'd probably be of more interest to players to find a small cache of credits for those who fail/don't want to try the Streetwise check to just find the parts they need.

Makes sense.  I usually toss my players a certain amount of credits-worth of spare parts.  They could just salvage the basilisk droid in this case for "just the parts they need".  Funny how that works.

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In a mixed party, I thought that the basilisk droid could be a long term project for a tech player to rehabilitate for use by a soldier/merc player. Creates a story arc that would take credits to rebuild, research to uncover old schematics, a scavenger hunt to find/create/manufacture parts or power control/supplies. As the party progresses, more capabilities of the basilisk develop (flight, weapons, etc.) allowing it to "level up" with the party.

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After thinking about it for a bit, I've decided to resolve the oversight this way...

 

Instead of placing a 1200 credit burden on the party (none of whom will have the money at the beginning), I'm going to have them find a box or something with a collection of lightsaber parts.  Once they are able to access the holocron, then they will be able to gain the knowledge to build their hilts.  It's just disappointing that you can't run the two adventures side by side, and give the players "everything they need to make lightsabers," without fudging things or running interim building time.  It kind of defeats the purpose of it being pregen.

 

I'm also not allowing them to build hilts without the knowledge.  TBH, I find the information in the GMs kit on building a lightsaber to be somewhat half-assed and I don't think it flows very well.  I was really hoping for more, but I imagine they need to leave plenty of room for the class books and region books.  My initial issues with it and how I intend to fix them are as follows:

 

1. You can build the entire hilt with Knowledge Lore, but when you add attachments (including the crystal) you can only use mechanics.  This seems ridiculous to me, and I'm making Lore usable on all attachment checks as well.

 

2. The streetwise check vs. paying 300 credits.  There are zero negatives to attempting the streetwise check... so why wouldn't very player at least attempt the free route?  This seems far too gamey for me, so I've decided to make it so that with 2 threat, the merchant reports them, they pick up a tail, etc.  I will also be amending the check difficulty depending on the planet they are on.  If it is firmly Imperial held, one of the die will get upgraded, and if they roll a despair they will get some fake parts that allow Imperials to track them.

 

3. Customization and Ornamentation through advantage.  I want my players to just have automatic access to this as opposed to getting confused by this rule, so I am simply allowing them to customize their sabers as they like in terms of aesthetics.

 

4. I feel like the adding of the crystal to the hilt is... unceremonious.  It should be a bigger deal and I intend to write some fluff about the joining process with the force and the saber user.

 

Overall I am really, really liking this version of an excellent RPG system, just a couple of bugs to smooth out.

 

Thanks for the help!  :D

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After thinking about it for a bit, I've decided to resolve the oversight this way...

 

Instead of placing a 1200 credit burden on the party (none of whom will have the money at the beginning), I'm going to have them find a box or something with a collection of lightsaber parts.  Once they are able to access the holocron, then they will be able to gain the knowledge to build their hilts.  It's just disappointing that you can't run the two adventures side by side, and give the players "everything they need to make lightsabers," without fudging things or running interim building time.  It kind of defeats the purpose of it being pregen.

 

I'm also not allowing them to build hilts without the knowledge.  TBH, I find the information in the GMs kit on building a lightsaber to be somewhat half-assed and I don't think it flows very well.  I was really hoping for more, but I imagine they need to leave plenty of room for the class books and region books.  My initial issues with it and how I intend to fix them are as follows:

 

1. You can build the entire hilt with Knowledge Lore, but when you add attachments (including the crystal) you can only use mechanics.  This seems ridiculous to me, and I'm making Lore usable on all attachment checks as well.

 

2. The streetwise check vs. paying 300 credits.  There are zero negatives to attempting the streetwise check... so why wouldn't very player at least attempt the free route?  This seems far too gamey for me, so I've decided to make it so that with 2 threat, the merchant reports them, they pick up a tail, etc.  I will also be amending the check difficulty depending on the planet they are on.  If it is firmly Imperial held, one of the die will get upgraded, and if they roll a despair they will get some fake parts that allow Imperials to track them.

 

3. Customization and Ornamentation through advantage.  I want my players to just have automatic access to this as opposed to getting confused by this rule, so I am simply allowing them to customize their sabers as they like in terms of aesthetics.

 

4. I feel like the adding of the crystal to the hilt is... unceremonious.  It should be a bigger deal and I intend to write some fluff about the joining process with the force and the saber user.

 

Overall I am really, really liking this version of an excellent RPG system, just a couple of bugs to smooth out.

 

Thanks for the help!  :D

 

Hey, Boulder, I agree with you on pretty much everything.  It's in some ways, it's nice that FFG doesn't make everything explicit, but in others it can get maddening.

 

#1 I really like this idea, I may steal it.

 

#2 A drawback of the "streetwise" check could be time.  I don't ahve the GM kit (though I may be purchasing it after reading this), so I'm not sure what's described in that supplement, but it sounds like making the check to get the parts is basically dumpster diving.  It could take several days to collect the parts for the hilt (or as much time as the plot would need), where for 300 credits you can basically walk into RadioShack and get what you need in about 20 minutes.

 

#3 & 4 are style issues, and it sounds like you've got it nailed for your style.

 

Let us know how it works out! =D

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After thinking about it for a bit, I've decided to resolve the oversight this way...

 

Instead of placing a 1200 credit burden on the party (none of whom will have the money at the beginning), I'm going to have them find a box or something with a collection of lightsaber parts.  Once they are able to access the holocron, then they will be able to gain the knowledge to build their hilts.  It's just disappointing that you can't run the two adventures side by side, and give the players "everything they need to make lightsabers," without fudging things or running interim building time.  It kind of defeats the purpose of it being pregen.

 

I'm also not allowing them to build hilts without the knowledge.  TBH, I find the information in the GMs kit on building a lightsaber to be somewhat half-assed and I don't think it flows very well.  I was really hoping for more, but I imagine they need to leave plenty of room for the class books and region books.  My initial issues with it and how I intend to fix them are as follows:

 

1. You can build the entire hilt with Knowledge Lore, but when you add attachments (including the crystal) you can only use mechanics.  This seems ridiculous to me, and I'm making Lore usable on all attachment checks as well.

 

2. The streetwise check vs. paying 300 credits.  There are zero negatives to attempting the streetwise check... so why wouldn't very player at least attempt the free route?  This seems far too gamey for me, so I've decided to make it so that with 2 threat, the merchant reports them, they pick up a tail, etc.  I will also be amending the check difficulty depending on the planet they are on.  If it is firmly Imperial held, one of the die will get upgraded, and if they roll a despair they will get some fake parts that allow Imperials to track them.

 

3. Customization and Ornamentation through advantage.  I want my players to just have automatic access to this as opposed to getting confused by this rule, so I am simply allowing them to customize their sabers as they like in terms of aesthetics.

 

4. I feel like the adding of the crystal to the hilt is... unceremonious.  It should be a bigger deal and I intend to write some fluff about the joining process with the force and the saber user.

 

Overall I am really, really liking this version of an excellent RPG system, just a couple of bugs to smooth out.

 

Thanks for the help!  :D

1. Force and Destiny Core Rulebook  page 166, allows you to use the weapon skill to repair a damaged weapon. I extend this opportunity to my players for making the modifications well. After all if your skill in using the weapon can be applied to repair it when it gets damaged, why couldn't your experience in using the weapon help you to improve its performance.

 

2. This is already included in the rules for the streetwise check Force and Destiny Core Rulebook  page 158, has something go wrong on 3 Threat or a Despair.

 

3. I agree with you on this.

 

4. Having read Hidden Depths word for word. The quest to find the perfect crystal, the one your connection to the Force leads you too, is what makes it special. Bringing all of the components together the first time (successfully) is a crowning moment for a Jedi. The can make as many hilts as they want and none of them would be special. It's when their efforts culminate in that special crystal coming together with their custom built hilt that is their "aaahhh" moment.

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I like your ideas about the lightsaber construction, I may steal some of those ideas. One other point I feel GM's should pay very close attention to in this adventure is the primary antagonist.

 

Spoiler Warning

When the party finally throws down against Garai, he shows up with a disruptor pistol, breaking the rule, "Never give the enemy something you don't want the party to have at that level." Depending on your style of game, this might not be an issue, but a weapon that powerful that early in the game can be a real game changer if the PC's end up with it, and they will, especially if one of your more crafty players noticed the oversight in the Force Move talent tree that basically allows them to disarm opponents for free.

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For the disruptor, I said you can use it, but you get conflict every time you do. It's a weapon designed to inflict suffering above and beyond. I equated that to willingly torturing someone. After that, no one wanted to use it.

Edited by TheBoulder

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For the disruptor, I said you can use it, but you get conflict every time you do. It's a weapon designed to inflict suffering above and beyond. I equated that to willingly torturing someone. After that, no one wanted to use it.

I have a similar houserule in place.

 

As a followup question, would you inflict conflict on the rest of the party as well?

Edited by kaosoe

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Hmm, it's an interesting dilemma. I think ultimately, yes I would. But at a lesser extent, say 1 conflict. They are associating with and allowing it to happen, so from an role playing standpoint, yeah I would. However, players being players, it may be group dependent.

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Even before losing a party member to a particularly nasty shot from a Disruptor Rifle, the party was more interest in making some quick cash by selling Disruptor weapons than in disintegrating their foes. My gaming group has sold every Disruptor weapon that they have encountered thus far. If you want to give them the temptation, that's all good, but if you think it's over balancing, just give them a good opportunity to unload it for some quick cash.

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On ‎8‎/‎16‎/‎2015 at 5:45 PM, TheBoulder said:

Hey peeps, quick question, I'm going to run the core book and GM Kit adventures together. At the beginning of the GMs adventure, it says the players can use the hilts they got in Lessons From The Past and combine them with the crystals in this adventure to construct sabers...

I can find no mention of hilts at all in the core book adventure... Am I missing something?

I just finished reading it as well and was asking myself the same question! :)

 

Curious but this Basilisk war droid is listed as "damaged"- is there a minty fresh one statted out somewhere? If not, what mods would anyone consider to buff it up?

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On 17/8/2015 at 1:17 PM, TheBoulder said:

 

 

 

 

4. I feel like the adding of the crystal to the hilt is... unceremonious.  It should be a bigger deal and I intend to write some fluff about the joining process with the force and the saber user.

 

Overall I am really, really liking this version of an excellent RPG system, just a couple of bugs to smooth out.

 

Thanks for the help!  :D

About point 4 in one the old thread  forum member Kyla linked her own test to rp while focusing the crystal. There were different visions and according to the player 's answer it determined the color of the blade. I always thought it was an awesome resource., but i can't locate it anymore.  Maybe you'll have more luck.

About the streetwise chrck to find parts, don't bother making up consequences or imperial entanglements, it'just a collection of parts and a common power cell. Nothing that would attract imperial attention at all. That's why creating the hilt is always very cheap. 

Oh and if you plan to run the gm kit adventure  to get the crystals, Donovan Morningfire has created a good alternative version if the rubat crystals on his blog (they are considered equal to standard Ilum crystals).

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On 1/25/2016 at 11:17 PM, Dakkar98 said:

Even before losing a party member to a particularly nasty shot from a Disruptor Rifle, the party was more interest in making some quick cash by selling Disruptor weapons than in disintegrating their foes. My gaming group has sold every Disruptor weapon that they have encountered thus far. If you want to give them the temptation, that's all good, but if you think it's over balancing, just give them a good opportunity to unload it for some quick cash.

I would argue that reselling such a vile weapon would be worthy of conflict because they would be perpetuating the use of such a weapon that will eventually be used to cause egregious harm on other living creatures, and outright using the weapon would be worth even more conflict.   

Also conflict does not equal instant dark side.  I tend towards not allowing a roll for morality unless you earned any conflict, so someone that is "conflict adverse" can never game the morality system to spike up to light side paragon.

So selling a disruptor in my games would earn conflict to a minor degree party wide (unless someone acts according to their morality and refuses to be party to the sale or some other action).

You can really have a lot of fun with this :) 

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39 minutes ago, TrystramK said:

I would argue that reselling such a vile weapon would be worthy of conflict because they would be perpetuating the use of such a weapon that will eventually be used to cause egregious harm on other living creatures, and outright using the weapon would be worth even more conflict.   

Also conflict does not equal instant dark side.  I tend towards not allowing a roll for morality unless you earned any conflict, so someone that is "conflict adverse" can never game the morality system to spike up to light side paragon.

So selling a disruptor in my games would earn conflict to a minor degree party wide (unless someone acts according to their morality and refuses to be party to the sale or some other action).

You can really have a lot of fun with this :) 

I usually frown on mirco conflict transactions, but I actually quite like this one. Selling a weapon that causes agonising death really is ethically questionable, because if I understand even the slightest graze from one of these things eats into the flesh like an insidious rot, meaning even a relatively quick death wouldn't so much kill them but leave them alive but dissolving. Kinda like a fell blade from fantasy lore or the Ring Wraiths from lord of the Rings. So I quite like this.

I think the only safe thing to do with disruptions conflict wise would be to either keep them stowed away (as some kind of grim reminder of the good they are doing on the streets.) or destroy all of them they find.

Edited by LordBritish

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1 hour ago, LordBritish said:

I usually frown on mirco conflict transactions, but I actually quite like this one. Selling a weapon that causes agonising death really is ethically questionable, because if I understand even the slightest graze from one of these things eats into the flesh like an insidious rot, meaning even a relatively quick death wouldn't so much kill them but leave them alive but dissolving. Kinda like a fell blade from fantasy lore or the Ring Wraiths from lord of the Rings. So I quite like this.

I think the only safe thing to do with disruptions conflict wise would be to either keep them stowed away (as some kind of grim reminder of the good they are doing on the streets.) or destroy all of them they find.

if you don't like to micro manage conflict, you could just create some  type of blanket statement of something like "Engaging in the resale and use of objects that are intended to cause egregious harm to living beings"

and give it a +3~5 conflict.

Does that sound a bit better?

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