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Force Leap question

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And if it is an extension of the base force powe then rather than the additional Force Points being wasted they can be used to add even more Advantage, or success so that your never failing anyway. Basically I’m saying you end up back exactly where you started except the character has far more advantages and Triumph to throw around than they normally would.

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42 minutes ago, Shizuya said:

valid point but I dont see a huge problem. if someone is very good in athletics and makes multiple force jumps in one round (which is btw extremely easy with only force die if you're not at the beginning of the campaign) and has a lot of advantages maybe they are so advanced in this technique that they do not suffer that much strain (=heal strain they got) and triumphs while doing force jumps can ofc be something amazing (and an idea I really like alot) but I'm not sure how it would sabotage the story in any other way than a triumph with any other check?

if we're talking about someone who does 3 force leaps a turn for the sake of creating triumphes, I think that is not in the range of normal play anymore and a case for the judge-GM and I heavily doubt anybody at our table would do that.

all die rolls are actions. you are eliminating the powers maneuver option by using your rule. Also there is no benefit to your die roll. If there is little risk of them failing and them failing wont have interesting consequenses why are you rolling. This is a very D&D mindset you are using. You are seriously devaluing the power.  And again I have never even seen Obiwan in the phantom menace struggle with this.Neither did Asohka. The Children in The Gathering had no trouple with force leaping. I think you are way over thinking this. 

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2 hours ago, Shizuya said:

I think handling force leap that way completely devalues the athletics skill ...

Oh no, you divided by zero NOOOOooooo...

🙄

You don't have to potentially take Conflict/use the Darkside, AND flip a Destiny to use the Athletics skill.

The Athletics skill is consistency, not to mention, y'know, a million possible non-movement related actions, at the cost of limited effect.

The Force is doing amazing things now and then, at potentially very high cost. This is the gameplay-zone where the Morality mechanic thrives. Increasing the cost more simply means less likelihood Morality will be used.

2 hours ago, Shizuya said:

the conflict aspect doesnt suffer from making force leap an easy or average athletics check at all.

... they say without providing any reasoning at all.

Very persuasive.

See above.

2 hours ago, Shizuya said:

a combined check (like all force powers, really)

I really just wanted to quote this blatant and gross falsehood so that all may use it to judge your level of understanding of the mechanics, and thereby the likely level of wisdom in what you've said here.

TLDR, for those reading along: they're both seemingly very low.

1 hour ago, Shizuya said:

I dont see a huge problem.

Another example of your lack of understanding of the rules.

Iterative rolls of any sort, anywhere, are very gameable in this system.

Edited by emsquared

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@Shizuya, don't take anything he says personally. He's like this to everyone.

That said, he ain't wrong, he just ain't nice about it.

I do not suggest adding an Athletics check for pretty much all the reasons outlined above. Like the others have said, it doesn't add anything other than an Advantage/Triumph exploit.

One of the biggest drawbacks to Force Jump/Speed is that it is quite obvious to any observers. It is not normal for someone to jump 60 meters into the air, or cover the same distance horizontally in the space of a second. Not something you can do subtly.

If something doesn't seem to have a mechanical drawback, try to find a narrative drawback, because they are usually there.

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2 hours ago, emsquared said:

*being very hurt over someone arguing against RAW*

okay indeed everything has been said and I won't talk to you any further :) 

everyone else ty for your objective opinions, I guess I'll sleep over it and ask my tablemates what they think ;) 

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1 hour ago, Shizuya said:

okay indeed everything has been said and I won't talk to you any further :) 

everyone else ty for your objective opinions, I guess I'll sleep over it and ask my tablemates what they think ;) 

If i were a player in your game and you wanted to devalue the abilities i was going to spend xp on i would be very annoyed. 

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15 hours ago, Shizuya said:

okay indeed everything has been said and I won't talk to you any further :) 

So long as you don't feel the need again to advocate for patently bad opinions about RAW, I won't talk to you either.

At least we can agree on that. 🙃

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Posted (edited)
On 8/20/2015 at 1:06 AM, Kilcannon said:

Do the exact se thing for horizontal leap unless my player likes it being off the ground.

I edited my original post cause i felt it was to harsh but allot of posts that have popped up hear are a prime example on how easy it is to power game in this system and manipulate the rules as written making them say more than what the author intended.  The problem is the system and how its written.  My group who I've been apart of for years will be moving back to an old star wars system. We have been gaming with each other for ten years.  I will miss this system and the flexibility on character building and its ability on enabling the gm give more of a story driven campaign.

Edited by Metalghost

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3 hours ago, Metalghost said:

I edited my original post cause i felt it was to harsh but allot of posts that have popped up hear are a prime example on how easy it is to power game in this system and manipulate the rules as written making them say more than what the author intended.  The problem is the system and how its written.  My group who I've been apart of for years will be moving back to an old star wars system. We have been gaming with each other for ten years.  I will miss this system and the flexibility on character building and its ability on enabling the gm give more of a story driven campaign.

I have not seen any power gaming the main problem I have seen is someone only reading the tree and not the part that tell you more about the talent 

but then ANY game system can be power gamed the its up to the GM to keep that under control

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Honestly if power gaming was a problem there wouldn't be a guy who wants to play an even more broken system.

Hate to break it to people, but FFG is the least broken crunch wise system for Star Wars.

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Seeing as I was quoted in the necro-post, thought I'd chip in as well! Sorry I'm late to party.

@Shizuya thanks for your thoughts. I can empathize with the desire to make things more exciting and less dry. And I agree, just rolling the Force die over and over again can get really old. And I'd like to say I usually try and hew pretty close to RAW, if only because the rules help me make sense of what's happening in the game, but the idea of combined Force power checks are hardly against RAW. They are called out as possibilities in the Core Rulebook, with suggestions for how/when to use them.

That being said, I have a few thoughts for consideration. My two credits.

  1. Sometimes, Jedi and other powerful Force users should just be able to do amazing stuff by "calling on the Force." This is what sets them apart from other heroes—the lack of grit. They just succeed, amazingly, somehow, defying not only human limits but even the laws of physics (such as they are in Star Wars :)). 
    1. To your comment about the Athletics skill: This power does indeed make it redundant for a good number of applications. Reminds me of Kreia's words from KotOR II: "Take the greatest Jedi Knight, strip away the Force, and what remains? They rely on it, depend on it, more than they know. Watch as one tries to hold a blaster, as they try to hold a lightsaber, and you will see nothing more than a woman – or a man. A child." The Force can sometimes be a crutch for the Force user. Perhaps that could be a story element to explore?
  2. Sometimes, I think it's okay for a die roll to be a cut-and-dry, move-along type of roll. Not every single roll of the dice has to be brilliantly evocative. If it were, I should think it would get exhausting after a while! So I would argue there's a middle ground here, where sometimes you're okay with the Jedi type just Force leaping because it's awesome. And then, as the GM, you could find any reason to make the action have a little more purchase, a little more weight, with a combined skill check. Maybe you're getting dogpiled by a bunch of mutant killiks (perhaps "bugpiled" is more appropriate?), and you'll need to combine your Force power check with some kind of skill check, say Discipline or Athletics (or whatever), to shake them off. But if you're just doing the Anakin thing, leaping from one flying speeder to another, the GM might consider just letting that happen with a sufficient amount of Force points. Now you're holding onto the speeder for dear life, and that is evocative in and of itself!

Bottom line, I think for me it comes down to whether adding more dice to this check would make things more interesting, or just add unnecessary complexity. And I think everyone's thresholds there are going to be different. So...game how you wanna game, but I would encourage the GM to remember that there's a lot of nuance involved, so rather than using RAW, just use the Force!

Let go your conscious self, and act on instinct. Stretch out with your feelings. And the Force will be with you, always. 

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