I'm New - Maybe I don't get it - But Imperial Assault is starting to be a disappointment

[KennedyHawk2 474]

 

 

 

 

The idea of rushing through the mission, leaving viable enemies to attack you on multiple fronts and just *taking damage because you can handle it*  is a completely unsound tactical process.  It plays like someone who coded a video game, with no understanding of squad tactics at all, wrote it.  I was very, very disappointed.

 

I hear this complaint from my Rebel players all the time, but when I look back at the Star Wars movies rarely were all the enemies dispatched as our heroes traversed on adventures. They were always on the run, whether Escaping the assault on Echo Base or rescuing a Princess from the Death Star the baddies that weren't a big enough threat were inconvenienced and ran by.  This complaint comes up all the time in Descent as well but it's very thematic to the Star Wars franchise.

 

 

Run away? Sure, all the time. Running past? Ok, maybe.

 

I don't remember the heroes running through a block of enemies, especially ones that were alert and actively firing at them.

 

- H8

 

 

Go rewatch a New Hope where Han Luke and Chewy run from troopers for a good 20 minutes on the Death star.

 

 

No, that was exactly my point. They ran AWAY FROM the troopers.

 

3) Heroes run charging down the hallway, directly into the hail of blaster shots, take several hits that they nevertheless shrug off, continue on DIRECTLY THROUGH the waiting squad of troopers, as if shouldering through a football play, singing "HAHAHA can't catch me, I'm the gingerbread man!" and continue on their merry way, absolutely unimpeded by the comically inept blockade.

 

 

#3 NEVER EVER HAPPENS. Except in Imperial Assault.

 

- H8

 

 

 

http://30.media.tumblr.com/765d6db9de176f95697ed25f485ecf5d/tumblr_n2d1k3xSt01qkfp1ro4_250.gif

[mazz0 2,840]

The idea of rushing through the mission, leaving viable enemies to attack you on multiple fronts and just *taking damage because you can handle it*  is a completely unsound tactical process.  It plays like someone who coded a video game, with no understanding of squad tactics at all, wrote it.  I was very, very disappointed.

 

I hear this complaint from my Rebel players all the time, but when I look back at the Star Wars movies rarely were all the enemies dispatched as our heroes traversed on adventures. They were always on the run, whether Escaping the assault on Echo Base or rescuing a Princess from the Death Star the baddies that weren't a big enough threat were inconvenienced and ran by.  This complaint comes up all the time in Descent as well but it's very thematic to the Star Wars franchise.

 

Run away? Sure, all the time. Running past? Ok, maybe.

 

I don't remember the heroes running through a block of enemies, especially ones that were alert and actively firing at them.

 

- H8

 

Go rewatch a New Hope where Han Luke and Chewy run from troopers for a good 20 minutes on the Death star.

 

No, that was exactly my point. They ran AWAY FROM the troopers.

 

3) Heroes run charging down the hallway, directly into the hail of blaster shots, take several hits that they nevertheless shrug off, continue on DIRECTLY THROUGH the waiting squad of troopers, as if shouldering through a football play, singing "HAHAHA can't catch me, I'm the gingerbread man!" and continue on their merry way, absolutely unimpeded by the comically inept blockade. 

 

#3 NEVER EVER HAPPENS. Except in Imperial Assault.

 

- H8

 

 

http://30.media.tumblr.com/765d6db9de176f95697ed25f485ecf5d/tumblr_n2d1k3xSt01qkfp1ro4_250.gif

I can't keep track of what each of you thinks. That's a clip where Han runs after a bunch of Storm Troopers and then, when they realise what's going on*, he runs away from them. There's no running through them, exactly.

That said, on the whole I think IA has it right. It's better to keep your Rebels running than stage pitched battles, even if they have to run through the empire troops a bit more than would be ideal, fluff wise.

*not because they ran into some stupid great hanger full of troopers and TIE Fighters

[Jhiriit 50]

Completely new to the game too, but looking forward to the campagin. This topic has me slightly worried though, since I don't want to lose the other players on a sub par first game. The worst that could happen is that the game feels weird or boring, which I guess a quick "you lose" in the first mission would before they even get to kill many Stormtroopers would.

 

I am wondering if the simplest solution would just be to extend all time limits by 1 or 2 turns. Do you guys think that is feasiable? That would enable the rebels to play less rushy, but still put pressure on them.

 

The only caveat I have is that that might make some missions too easy for the rebels, but I guess they still have to move a lot to win.

[Boba Rick 4,210]

I don't get all the complaining.  Sometimes the Rebels have to gun, sometimes they have to run, and sometimes they have to run-and-gun.  Different situations call for different tactics. 

[portious18 3]

 

 

 

Every other turn the heroes would rest for both actions and be at full health.

Probably not at full health if they used strain, but point taken.

 

That does give me an idea, remove the time limits and remove the ability to recover health through resting. You can still recover strain through resting. And you can still recover health through other means (Supply Cards, abilities, etc). I can't think of too many times the heroes rested in any of my campaigns, and as I recall it was to recover strain more than to recover health. This still retains the urgency for the Rebels as they can't last forever since the Imperial gets threat every round to deploy more units. But it does remove the "arbitrary" round limit. I'm going to try this and see if it's viable. If anyone gives it a go, I'd love to hear what happened.

I remember arguing with my rebels about this. To me the turn limit was alway about the arrival of the main force defending wherever you were fighting. They were a special forces unit that is catching a place unaware and getting out before things go to crap. At the turn limit things officially go to crap and everything gets there. We can extend the game, but I get infinite threat and get to add a new card to my options every turn.

Let's face it, you spend too much time on an imperial star destroyer and you have to worry about more than 9 storm troopers showing up. So they were welcome to methodically kill everything and only move when it's safe, we'll see how that goes for them.

 

It'd be kind of fun to actually set up a survival mode based on that premise.

 

@OP: To me it sounds like you were upset that the game wasn't what you were expecting and decided it was terrible based on that. I'd suggest you try to get these feelings out of your head before you try playing the campaign again, if you still don't like it (and don't like skirmish enough to keep it just for those purposes) then it's just not for you.

 

Just a little thing... I'm pretty sure that in the rules is stated that the only action that can be done twice by a single Hero during a single activation is Attack (maybe Move, but I don't remember right now), so resting twice is not like.. permitted. Cheers!

[agentc13 36]

Just a little thing... I'm pretty sure that in the rules is stated that the only action that can be done twice by a single Hero during a single activation is Attack (maybe Move, but I don't remember right now), so resting twice is not like.. permitted. Cheers!

 

 

No, actually they can rest twice.

 

Rules Reference Guide pg.3

A figure can perform the same action multiple times during the same activation except as follows:

-- A non-hero figure can use only one of its actions to perform an attack per activation.

-- A figure can perform each special action only once per activation.

 

 

[Boba Rick 4,210]

A figure can perform the same action multiple times during the same activation except as follows:

-- A non-hero figure can use only one of its actions to perform an attack per activation.

-- A figure can perform each special action only once per activation.

 

 

 

 

  Forgive me, but what's a special action?

[agentc13 36]

 

A figure can perform the same action multiple times during the same activation except as follows:

-- A non-hero figure can use only one of its actions to perform an attack per activation.

-- A figure can perform each special action only once per activation.

 

 

 

 

  Forgive me, but what's a special action?

 

The ones with the arrow before them like this:

[portious18 3]

 

Just a little thing... I'm pretty sure that in the rules is stated that the only action that can be done twice by a single Hero during a single activation is Attack (maybe Move, but I don't remember right now), so resting twice is not like.. permitted. Cheers!

 

 

No, actually they can rest twice.

 

Rules Reference Guide pg.3

A figure can perform the same action multiple times during the same activation except as follows:

-- A non-hero figure can use only one of its actions to perform an attack per activation.

-- A figure can perform each special action only once per activation.

 

 

 

Thanks mate, I didn't understood correctly when I first read it.

 

And just a question if you would happen to know the answer I'll really appreciate it. If a non hero figure uses an action to perform a special action that involves an attack, will it be able to perform a proper attack with the other action? As the rules only state that a non-hero figure can use only one action to perform an "Attack", but I can't seem to find if the attack on a special action would count as that one attack or if they are separate instances.

 

Thanks in advance

[Majushi 1,082]

 

 

Just a little thing... I'm pretty sure that in the rules is stated that the only action that can be done twice by a single Hero during a single activation is Attack (maybe Move, but I don't remember right now), so resting twice is not like.. permitted. Cheers!

 

 

No, actually they can rest twice.

 

Rules Reference Guide pg.3

A figure can perform the same action multiple times during the same activation except as follows:

-- A non-hero figure can use only one of its actions to perform an attack per activation.

-- A figure can perform each special action only once per activation.

 

 

 

Thanks mate, I didn't understood correctly when I first read it.

 

And just a question if you would happen to know the answer I'll really appreciate it. If a non hero figure uses an action to perform a special action that involves an attack, will it be able to perform a proper attack with the other action? As the rules only state that a non-hero figure can use only one action to perform an "Attack", but I can't seem to find if the attack on a special action would count as that one attack or if they are separate instances.

 

Thanks in advance

 

Any non-hero figure can only attack once during it's activation unless a card has an ability to break this rule.

 

This includes attacks from special actions, like Darth Vader's Brutality.

 

Wild Fury, the command card, is an example of a card that specifically says you can attack multiple times.

 

Also, the E-Web mentions being able to attack multiple times.

[portious18 3]

 

 

 

Just a little thing... I'm pretty sure that in the rules is stated that the only action that can be done twice by a single Hero during a single activation is Attack (maybe Move, but I don't remember right now), so resting twice is not like.. permitted. Cheers!

 

 

No, actually they can rest twice.

 

Rules Reference Guide pg.3

A figure can perform the same action multiple times during the same activation except as follows:

-- A non-hero figure can use only one of its actions to perform an attack per activation.

-- A figure can perform each special action only once per activation.

 

 

 

Thanks mate, I didn't understood correctly when I first read it.

 

And just a question if you would happen to know the answer I'll really appreciate it. If a non hero figure uses an action to perform a special action that involves an attack, will it be able to perform a proper attack with the other action? As the rules only state that a non-hero figure can use only one action to perform an "Attack", but I can't seem to find if the attack on a special action would count as that one attack or if they are separate instances.

 

Thanks in advance

 

Any non-hero figure can only attack once during it's activation unless a card has an ability to break this rule.

 

This includes attacks from special actions, like Darth Vader's Brutality.

 

Wild Fury, the command card, is an example of a card that specifically says you can attack multiple times.

 

Also, the E-Web mentions being able to attack multiple times.

 

Yes, thanks, just found the rule that stated that, I will reread it all over again. Thanks!

[Myrick04 0]

I lost all desire to play this game the moment me and my gameplay partners reread the campaign status phase step 1 and realized the imperials increased threat every round according to the threat level. We play with 3 heros and one imperial. And the second we hit 4 threat level it was over. Everytime we killed something 2 more of it took its place. We lost every round since. The heros in this game are more skilled them the imperial. As one of the heros demolished us as imperial without that rule. Personally I feel like there needs to be a hero advantage that we are missing, or a weakness for the imperials. Because we cannot even make it to a single objective due to the mass of troopers. It's horrible.

[subtrendy2 2,935]

On 12/26/2017 at 4:34 PM, Myrick04 said:

I lost all desire to play this game the moment me and my gameplay partners reread the campaign status phase step 1 and realized the imperials increased threat every round according to the threat level. We play with 3 heros and one imperial. And the second we hit 4 threat level it was over. Everytime we killed something 2 more of it took its place. We lost every round since. The heros in this game are more skilled them the imperial. As one of the heros demolished us as imperial without that rule. Personally I feel like there needs to be a hero advantage that we are missing, or a weakness for the imperials. Because we cannot even make it to a single objective due to the mass of troopers. It's horrible.

Not so much an advantage, but you need to consider that this isn't a traditional wargame in any sense.

 

You don't need to clear the board of enemies. you need to fulfill your objective.  Take out enemies as best as you can, but even attacks should be very specifically chosen.  For instance, let's say you have two stormtroopers who have already taken damage and a Nexu next to you, and your gun has Blast One.  Now, if they're positioned right, you could attack the Nexu, and apply blast to the stormtroopers, possibly killing them without even having to attack.  It's even possible (though obviously the ideal scenario) that you could take down all three units in a single action, then allowing you to use your other action to further progress on the objective.

 

So basically, be mindful not only of attacking, but of who and when you attack.  Maybe even make it a rule of thumb that you don't attack a unit of threat cost 2 or less if it has less than 3 health, since even in the best case scenario of defeating the unit you've used a precious activation to deal at max two damage (or something like that), keeping in mind you may want to adjust the suggestion as the campaign progresses.  

 

A few other overlooked rules that can greatly benefit the heroes:

- Once per attack, an unspent surge can be used by a hero to remove one Strain.  This can be done even if the attack misses or does no damage.

- Heroes can spend one strain to move one space without using an action.  This can be done twice per activation.  

 

Finally, get to know your class, and make sure you're making good use of your abilities.  Abilities are really the biggest advantage the heroes have over the Imperials, and while that seems like a given I can't stress how often I see the Heroes overlook them, only to later discover how much more effective they can be (and, in turn, how much more they appreciate the game).  With that in mind, also consider how your hero's abilities lend themselves to the group. 

 

Is your hero good at dealing a lot of damage on a single target?  Go for the big stuff.

Does your hero deal a lot of splash damage?  Hit as many grunts as you can.

Does your hero have a high speed?  Run those objectives.

Does your hero feature support abilities, or are they able to distribute beneficial tokens, conditions, or items?  Make sure you take advantage of that!

 

I'm in a campaign right now with a mix of seasoned and new Rebels, and while everyone is playing fine individually, they're just now learning how to act like a team- and trust me, as an Imperial that puts a lot more pressure on me.

[a1bert 3,991]

On 12/27/2017 at 0:34 AM, Myrick04 said:

Everytime we killed something 2 more of it took its place.

If you're only defeating 2 threat worth of imperial figures with the 8 actions the heroes have each round, you better check the common mistakes: https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1319188/what-are-some-crazy-or-common-rule-breaking-mistak

(Some of these already listed above)
1. Heroes can spend both of their actions for attacks.
2. Heroes can suffer 1 strain to gain 1 movement point up to twice per activation. So they can attack twice and still move towards their objective.
3. Heroes can recover 1 strain by spending an unspent surge per attack. If they have no strain, they recover damage instead.

4. The rebel priority is to attack imperial figures that have not yet activated. First attack figures that you can defeat with your attack. Finish off figures even if it takes both attacks.
5. Defeat imperials from two groups to limit the power of the next imperial activation. After that, defeat whole groups so they can't be reinforced.
6. Activation order matters! Which ready rebel can do the best thing at the current moment?
7. Rebel synergies - support characters make the other heroes more powerful so that you don't need to perform so many attacks.
8. Item / Weapon / Modification choice - do not buy marginal upgrades. Save credits for better modifications and weapons. (This comes only after experience.)

[Rikalonius 856]

On 8/13/2015 at 0:47 PM, lowercaseM said:

What kind of definition of tactical are you using? Pretty sure tactics is about accomplishing the mission, not mowing down enemies. Sounds like your idea of tactics is largely informed by, well, video games, most of which only have the goal of "destroy your enemies". If you want to appeal to reality, then you should really look into special forces operations. Such operations are actually focused on accomplishing the mission even at the expense your own life, and stopping to take out every enemy in an installation would be counter productive. Take the mission to get Osama bin Laden, and other missions like that. Jump in, grab the target, shoot (maybe kill, maybe not but) anything that is going to stop you, get out of there while you can before reinforcements arrive, hope the enemies don't kill you as you run away.

Given that in IA you more or less *are* special forces, it is very thematic to have smash and grab missions.

The SEALs at the Abbottabad compound didn't ignore any combatants on their way to Osama's bedroom.  They took great pains to clear rooms of any fighters that might flank them.  It costs a lot of money to train a Special Forces operator, and they are not fond of needlessly losing any of them because someone ignored a combatant that might shoot them from behind.  While I don't have a big issue with it.  OP is right.  You don't just run past someone who can kill you to achieve an objective, because unlike in board games, where heroes can absorb a ton of damage, it doesn't work that way in the real world, bullets are much more lethal, and your family will soon be getting a folded flag. 

[FrogTrigger 1,725]

Read the first post and a few in between, sounds like the OP is just mad that they lost. The name of the game in Star Wars is fighting against over whelming odds, if you didn't realize that when you picked it up I am not sure you have even seen any of the movies!

IA is a VERY thematic Star Wars game and I love it for that reason.

[TylerTT 1,276]

Someone give this man advanced squad leader and perhaps he will get distracted.

actually I suggest this guy try out the skirmish mode if the puzzle gameyness of campaign missions is not what he digs. The skirmish mode has players balancing normal combat against scenario objectives. It may suit your needs more. 

[mtagge 22]

On 12/26/2017 at 5:34 PM, Myrick04 said:

I lost all desire to play this game the moment me and my gameplay partners reread the campaign status phase step 1 and realized the imperials increased threat every round according to the threat level. We play with 3 heros and one imperial. And the second we hit 4 threat level it was over. Everytime we killed something 2 more of it took its place. We lost every round since. The heros in this game are more skilled them the imperial. As one of the heros demolished us as imperial without that rule. Personally I feel like there needs to be a hero advantage that we are missing, or a weakness for the imperials. Because we cannot even make it to a single objective due to the mass of troopers. It's horrible.

I think you are playing it wrong. Each turn you increase the threat by the mission threat level, you do not increase the mission threat level by 2 then increase threat. I suspect your imperial was spending two threat the first turn, four the second, six the third, eight the fourth, etc. This would have the imperials spending 30 threat by the sixth turn and is wrong.

Yes in that case the rebels would definitely lose. In reality they would spend a total of 10 additional threat by the sixth turn. 

The other thing that sounds wrong is the "mass of troopers". You cannot have more units than on a deployment card. So if the imperial has one stormtrooper card they could have at most 3 troopers on the board. 

[Click5 181]

It actually kind of sounds like your Imperial player is not spending the Threat to redeploy units.  While the threat does increase each round, they have to spend it to put more bodies onto the table

[FSD 834]

I really hope the OP comes back after 2.5 years and lets us know if he ever gave the game another try...

[Rikalonius 856]

11 minutes ago, FSD said:

I really hope the OP comes back after 2.5 years and lets us know if he ever gave the game another try...

Darnit.  I hate when I respond to necro posts. 

[Tvboy 3,422]

Spent like 5 minutes responding to OP then thought OP sounded very familiar only to realize this is a 2+ year old necro thread and Myrick04 is a necromancer. 

 

[Loosie 48]

On 8/17/2015 at 11:30 AM, Tromsicle said:

 

I'm fine with the balance for the most part, although i do think the game generally slants a bit to the Imperial side. That being said the mission referenced above seems completely broken. I have taken to exposing each terminals color at the beginning of the mission so the rebels can at least plan and send the right hero to the room where they have the best chance of passing the terminal roll. This mission is crazy hard, the last thing you need is to get into a room and have virtually no chance to win the roll with the hero you sent in. On top of that there's now a big cat in your face and the imp has a bunch more threat! 

I got IA for Christmas this year and I really love it so far, as does my almost 9-year old son. (I also love that it has the companion app for that reason so we can play together)

 

We played the mission mentioned on NYE, and one of the character failed spectacularly on opening the door. it took him 3 full turns just to get, and of course when the door was down to one health he rolled like 5 damage. 

[TauntaunScout 3,275]

On 8/12/2015 at 5:47 PM, Dadda1968 said:

It plays like someone who coded a video game, with no understanding of squad tactics at all, wrote it.  I was very, very disappointed.

That sums up my gripe with most of post-2005 miniature gaming. In many cases the player culture is worse in this regard than the actual games as written, but still.

 

On 8/12/2015 at 5:47 PM, Dadda1968 said:

 

The Imperials are too powerful, there is no means of closing off their entry points and securing a perimeter, what person would logically just run into a hail of blast fire, not take cover, leave viable, shooting enemies behind while he just runs willy-nilly around the battlefield shooting at targets that don't mean him any harm and ignore real threats.

 

 

 

Han Solo.

[Gallanteer 492]

Everyone getting hung up on clearing the enemies first are missing the point in time based scenarios (later in the campaign, these occur less).

Take the very first mission. The rebels are attacking an imperial outpost and must stop the beacon urgently otherwise Yavin will be under threat. Do they a) kill everything first although they will be facing almost limitless enemies or b) weaken them a bit to distract them and keep their eye on the prize - switching off the beacon urgently? They don't have time to kill everything they just have to get the beacon turned off. This isn't call of duty where the number of kills is important. It's more Battlefield.

As an Imperial player you are actually playing as a GM. You have the power to keep the game balanced as well as attempting to win. Think of a Dungeon master in D&D instead of being competitive. Another hint to rebels - if you are gunning a lot, try to wipe out full squads in a single turn. Its more expensive for the Imps to deploy a whole new squad than just reinforce a weakend squad.