Jump to content
Dadda1968

I'm New - Maybe I don't get it - But Imperial Assault is starting to be a disappointment

Recommended Posts

So, maybe I'm thinking far too tactically - and maybe I've played only two missions.  But my impression of the game so far is hitting rock bottom after huge excitement.

 

We played the first mission - destroy all the beacons.  We lost.  Not miserably, but because the conditions mean that taking a tactically sound effort is a losing strategy.

 

The idea of rushing through the mission, leaving viable enemies to attack you on multiple fronts and just *taking damage because you can handle it*  is a completely unsound tactical process.  It plays like someone who coded a video game, with no understanding of squad tactics at all, wrote it.  I was very, very disappointed.

 

Then we took a side mission to find the lightsaber for Diala - same problem.

 

Both missions seem to require the *completely unsound* tactical process of "run at your enemies like you don't value your life in the least" and "take as much damage as you possibly can, because, you know, you can only die from "death of a thousand paper cuts" - and then face off against a "boss" that is so outpowers you that *if* you manage to get a hit against him, you all slap hands before realizing you have to do that *20+ times* just to injure him.

 

 

Please tell me that this is not how all the missions are?  Because, quite frankly, if I was the Rebel commander, I'd court martial the characters we had for their miserable results even though their actions were completely tactically sound.

 

 

It's just not making sense.  No logical combat would *ever* take place like the rules are written. The Imperials are too powerful, there is no means of closing off their entry points and securing a perimeter, what person would logically just run into a hail of blast fire, not take cover, leave viable, shooting enemies behind while he just runs willy-nilly around the battlefield shooting at targets that don't mean him any harm and ignore real threats.

 

 

Please, please, please tell me that this is not the level of "tactical genius" found in the rest of the game.  Because right now I'm really, really, disappointed in the game that I've been pumped up to play for months - and have a jedi character that doesn't have a lightsaber (what is the point of playing a jedi with a frickin' *staff* and no possibility to find the coolest piece of hardware in the game *ever* because the "ghost mission" was failed because first level characters were facing off against Dark Frickin' Vader amped up on speed simply because we operated in a valid, tactical manner? 

 

 

I was planning to buy this for my kiddos to play - but now I'm nixing the whole idea based on bad writing, bad tactics and overpowered enemies. 

 

 

I'm giving FFG a chance to address these concerns in this post - but at this point, I'm done with the game.  *PLEASE* say something to allay my concerns.  I *WANT* to like this game.  I've been a Star Wars fan since I was 8 years old and saw it on opening night at midnight in 1977.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really think it depends.

There are a good number of missions that play as you describe, where the only way to win is to rush through and leave enemies alive, which definitely feels pretty gamey.

On the other hand, some of the missions are very well designed and end up being a TON of fun.

Since you've lost the first mission, I highly suggest playing the next story mission. The story mission you play if you lose the first mission is one of the more fun missions out of the one's I've played so far and definitely feels really tactical. (I think its called Under Siege?). The missions that I have played that do not have a "time limit" have always ended up being my favorite. Those ones allow you to really think it through and play tactically. On the other hand the "game ends in x rounds" missions definitely tend more towards rushing through as fast as possible, but even those missions had a few good moments. Some missions are just flat out terrible though, at least I think so.


One other thing to note is that, at least in my playthrough, the Rebels start out really weak and then gain a lot of strength later in the game.  Since the only mission that "matters" is the finale, I think its pretty expected that the Rebels are going to lose a lot of missions at first, but towards the end of the Campaign they should have a ton of gear and abilities to make them fearsome.

The finale mission we played during our first campaign felt amazing, even though up to that point the Imperials had won almost every mission so far. It still felt balanced and enjoyable. I'm in our second campaign and now that we understand the rules better, the Rebels are doing much better.

My opinion is that the later in the campaign it gets, and the stronger the Rebels are, the more fun it is, for both the Imperial and Rebel players.

I suggest playing through an entire campaign first to get a feel for it.

------

Now, that said.... Go play some Skirmish! The Skirmish game is COMPLETELY different from Campaign. If you're a tactical and military minded thinker you will LOVE Skirmish. Sound tactics is what wins Skirmish games, and theoretically, every game is balanced since its 40 points vs 40 points (although obviously some unit combinations are better than others... But half the fun is coming up with a strong list!)

Edited by Stokes52

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How many times are we going to have this discussion?

 

The missions and enemies are not overpowered.  Every mission is winnable by the Rebels. Some are skewed in the Imperial's favor, but the point remains.

 

I don't know what you were expecting from a tactical perspective.  The very first movie Han and Luke basically haphazardly rescue Leia amidst a swarm of troopers.  Then in RotJ we have a mission that has to be saved by Ewoks and even then the Rebels had no idea where they would enter from without Wicket's advice.  As far as I am concerned this is very fluffy.

 

I agree, you are looking for Skirmish it would seem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What kind of definition of tactical are you using? Pretty sure tactics is about accomplishing the mission, not mowing down enemies. Sounds like your idea of tactics is largely informed by, well, video games, most of which only have the goal of "destroy your enemies". If you want to appeal to reality, then you should really look into special forces operations. Such operations are actually focused on accomplishing the mission even at the expense your own life, and stopping to take out every enemy in an installation would be counter productive. Take the mission to get Osama bin Laden, and other missions like that. Jump in, grab the target, shoot (maybe kill, maybe not but) anything that is going to stop you, get out of there while you can before reinforcements arrive, hope the enemies don't kill you as you run away.

Given that in IA you more or less *are* special forces, it is very thematic to have smash and grab missions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think his complaint is more along the lines of how silly it seems to have to ignore enemies that are literally standing right next to you in order to complete the mission. It sort of breaks immersion and the cinematic feel of the board game.

In a lot of ways I think its up to the Imperial player to make the game fun by playing in a more tactical, realistic way, as opposed to trying to win by abusing game mechanics, clogging up corridors, and using hidden information to gain unrealistic advantages.

If you want a truly competitive, balanced, tactical experience, play Skirmish. The campaign isn't really meant to be balanced imo. It's more of a story that favors the Imperials or Rebels at different points.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, Dadda1968, I actually feel pretty much the same as you about Campaign, though I do intend to stick with it and try to GM it a bit into something more interesting to my group. But, as others have said: Skirmish. It is excellent, really one of the best games I've played in years. Get involved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How many times are we going to have this discussion?

 

The missions and enemies are not overpowered.  Every mission is winnable by the Rebels. Some are skewed in the Imperial's favor, but the point remains.

 

I don't know what you were expecting from a tactical perspective.  The very first movie Han and Luke basically haphazardly rescue Leia amidst a swarm of troopers.  Then in RotJ we have a mission that has to be saved by Ewoks and even then the Rebels had no idea where they would enter from without Wicket's advice.  As far as I am concerned this is very fluffy.

 

I agree, you are looking for Skirmish it would seem.

 

Well said here, its Star Wars, and it's based on the movies and the run and gun feel of this game is what IMO makes it so great.  Its not about killing all the enemies, its about moving around and determining how to accomplish your objective.  

 

With that being said, I've played through 3 campaigns, and as the campaign progresses there is definitely a different feel in this game.  The early campaign is more objective based, Heroes need to sprint more and focus on completing the task, not as worried about the enemies in front of them b/c they are pretty weak (if you feel like the Imperial troops are overpowered, that will change).  Mid game, there is a strong balance between the objective and killing enemies.  And late game, the heroes become quite powerful and you will be attacking a lot more than you did earlier on, and also having much less trouble getting rid of pesky stormtroopers and probe droids.  The game is honestly balanced, and has a great feel to it throughout the campaign.  As many threads about the Rebels struggling there are online, there are as man about Imperial players struggling, its all about how you approach and play it.  And usually for the Rebels who are just starting their campaign, they get lost and want to kill everything, instead of focusing on the objective.  

 

As far as tactics, the game has a whole slew of tactical choices.  Yes, it's not real life, its a board game based on Star Wars with die rolls to determine outcomes, but those squad tactics you talked about do develop through the course of the campaign.  You start to learn how certain hero combinations and skills work well together.  One of the biggest tactical decisions you can make is "what deployment group do we target?"  This is a tough decision for newer players because they don't understand all the cards yet, but in my last campaign, the Rebel group got amazing at assessing which groups were the biggest threat (get it!?) to them.  Once you know that, you know what groups you need to take out to make the mission a success.  

 

But ultimately it just doesn't sound like this game is for your group.  It's never going to be about a slay all the enemies type of game.  It's about the campaign as a whole, the back and forthness from the balance, leveling up your characters (class for imperial), the story, wondering what would have happened in that mission if you tried this, and the theme of Star Wars.  It's about having fun, win or lose because you got to try out a new skill with your guy, or deployed a new strategy you have been thinking about, or had one solid round where you just owned it.  If you want to battle, I say try the skirmish game, plays great and is all about attacking.  

Edited by jomayo112

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suggest playing through the whole campaign and then make the decision.  You should know the mission objective, so if it is timed, get in, do the job, get out.  If not, use a different tactic.  Play Under Siege, then play Diala's mission again (ignore your first attempt)

 

First time I played the campaign, we were not told of the time limit.  I felt really cheated.  Come to find out, if we knew the whole objective, we would have played it differently.  Second time around we succeeded, barely, by blitzing our objective and not eliminate our enemies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Every other turn the heroes would rest for both actions and be at full health.

Probably not at full health if they used strain, but point taken.

 

That does give me an idea, remove the time limits and remove the ability to recover health through resting. You can still recover strain through resting. And you can still recover health through other means (Supply Cards, abilities, etc). I can't think of too many times the heroes rested in any of my campaigns, and as I recall it was to recover strain more than to recover health. This still retains the urgency for the Rebels as they can't last forever since the Imperial gets threat every round to deploy more units. But it does remove the "arbitrary" round limit. I'm going to try this and see if it's viable. If anyone gives it a go, I'd love to hear what happened.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've always wondered if the game would be more fun for the tactical minded player if instead of ending the game at the round limit, you instead continue the mission, but the Imperial player gets double threat each round.

If that seems to easy after play testing, I would add the additional requirement that, once the native "round limit" is up, then in addition to completing the usual objectives, all heroes must escape through the starting point to win the mission.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The last time my group played the rebels actually played very aggressive.  Strong assaults on groups of troopers and wiping them out very quickly so they could not reinforce for low points.  It made it hard as the Imperial player to keep them from getting objectives.  However the mission tree balances wins and losses by selecting missions which favor the player that lost the last round enough to try to maintain some kind of parity.  Overall the campaign is amazingly well designed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I lost all desire to play IA at all after running through the tutorial mission and realizing that the only way that I could have won it was if the Imperial player let me win by actually fighting instead of just rushing the terminal. 

 

He talked me into playing skirmish a few weeks later and I liked that much better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I lost all desire to play IA at all after running through the tutorial mission and realizing that the only way that I could have won it was if the Imperial player let me win by actually fighting instead of just rushing the terminal. 

 

He talked me into playing skirmish a few weeks later and I liked that much better.

 

The tutorial mission is garbage meant to teach you mechanics, and nothing more.

 

You should give the campaign a real what-for instead of poo-pooing it based on the tutorial.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I lost all desire to play IA at all after running through the tutorial mission and realizing that the only way that I could have won it was if the Imperial player let me win by actually fighting instead of just rushing the terminal. 

 

He talked me into playing skirmish a few weeks later and I liked that much better.

 

The tutorial mission is garbage meant to teach you mechanics, and nothing more.

 

You should give the campaign a real what-for instead of poo-pooing it based on the tutorial.

 

 

I was just letting the OP know that even if has disliked what he's played so far that he might like Skirmish.

Campaign never really appealed to me and the tutorial was a big turn off. I'm not really interested in leveling up a group of characters and tracking their progress between sessions. Do the campaign missions work as one offs? Do the later ones really require that characters have been leveled up or are the missions still more or less balanced as long as neither side has any upgrades?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Every other turn the heroes would rest for both actions and be at full health.

Probably not at full health if they used strain, but point taken.

 

That does give me an idea, remove the time limits and remove the ability to recover health through resting. You can still recover strain through resting. And you can still recover health through other means (Supply Cards, abilities, etc). I can't think of too many times the heroes rested in any of my campaigns, and as I recall it was to recover strain more than to recover health. This still retains the urgency for the Rebels as they can't last forever since the Imperial gets threat every round to deploy more units. But it does remove the "arbitrary" round limit. I'm going to try this and see if it's viable. If anyone gives it a go, I'd love to hear what happened.

I remember arguing with my rebels about this. To me the turn limit was alway about the arrival of the main force defending wherever you were fighting. They were a special forces unit that is catching a place unaware and getting out before things go to crap. At the turn limit things officially go to crap and everything gets there. We can extend the game, but I get infinite threat and get to add a new card to my options every turn.

Let's face it, you spend too much time on an imperial star destroyer and you have to worry about more than 9 storm troopers showing up. So they were welcome to methodically kill everything and only move when it's safe, we'll see how that goes for them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Every other turn the heroes would rest for both actions and be at full health.

Probably not at full health if they used strain, but point taken.

 

That does give me an idea, remove the time limits and remove the ability to recover health through resting. You can still recover strain through resting. And you can still recover health through other means (Supply Cards, abilities, etc). I can't think of too many times the heroes rested in any of my campaigns, and as I recall it was to recover strain more than to recover health. This still retains the urgency for the Rebels as they can't last forever since the Imperial gets threat every round to deploy more units. But it does remove the "arbitrary" round limit. I'm going to try this and see if it's viable. If anyone gives it a go, I'd love to hear what happened.

I remember arguing with my rebels about this. To me the turn limit was alway about the arrival of the main force defending wherever you were fighting. They were a special forces unit that is catching a place unaware and getting out before things go to crap. At the turn limit things officially go to crap and everything gets there. We can extend the game, but I get infinite threat and get to add a new card to my options every turn.

Let's face it, you spend too much time on an imperial star destroyer and you have to worry about more than 9 storm troopers showing up. So they were welcome to methodically kill everything and only move when it's safe, we'll see how that goes for them.

 

It'd be kind of fun to actually set up a survival mode based on that premise.

 

@OP: To me it sounds like you were upset that the game wasn't what you were expecting and decided it was terrible based on that. I'd suggest you try to get these feelings out of your head before you try playing the campaign again, if you still don't like it (and don't like skirmish enough to keep it just for those purposes) then it's just not for you.

Edited by Norgrath

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Let's face it, you spend too much time on an imperial star destroyer and you have to worry about more than 9 storm troopers showing up. So they were welcome to methodically kill everything and only move when it's safe, we'll see how that goes for them.

 

 

Yeah, if you run around on a Death Star eventually you will be overwhelmed by... oh, wait...

 

;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I lost all desire to play IA at all after running through the tutorial mission and realizing that the only way that I could have won it was if the Imperial player let me win by actually fighting instead of just rushing the terminal. 

 

He talked me into playing skirmish a few weeks later and I liked that much better.

 

The tutorial mission is garbage meant to teach you mechanics, and nothing more.

 

You should give the campaign a real what-for instead of poo-pooing it based on the tutorial.

 

 

Also, there is an error in the rules. The Imperial player has to interact with both terminals, not just one of them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@OP: To me it sounds like you were upset that the game wasn't what you were expecting and decided it was terrible based on that. I'd suggest you try to get these feelings out of your head before you try playing the campaign again, if you still don't like it (and don't like skirmish enough to keep it just for those purposes) then it's just not for you.

I agree. I love Star Wars. Have since I was 10 years old and played the original X-Wing game on the PC. However, there's been many Star Wars game created throughout the years that I've wanted to enjoy and just couldn't (both tabletop and PC/console). Sometimes it's the game mechanics, sometimes it's the story or characters. It's unlikely that any one person is going to like everything that is released related to Star Wars. Even George Lucas made changes to the original trilogy because he didn't like parts of it.

 

It's unfortunate that you spent money on this only to realize this may not be for you. If you have a FLGS in your area, go there and find some IA veterans to play with (or just watch). It may help you gain an appreciation of the game, it's mechanics and nuances. And if you still find the game is not for you, you may find someone there that wants to buy your set. Best of luck to you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×