Conner Net Dropped on a Higher PS Ship Before it Activates?

[mightyspacepope 356]

We had a slightly ambiguous situation pop up during a game on Monday.

 

Miranda at PS8 activates, does her maneuver, and takes her action to drop a Conner Net which lands on Talonbane at PS9, who has not yet activated or revealed a dial.  

 

Conner Net reads:

Action: Discard this card to drop 1 Conner net token. When a ship's base or maneuver template overlaps this token, this token detonates. When this bomb token detonates, the ship that moved through or overlapped this token suffers 1 damage, receives 2 ion tokens, and skips its "Perform Action" step. Then discard this token.

 

Do the Ion Tokens take effect THIS turn, so Talonbane is forced to do the white 1 straight maneuver, or does it take effect NEXT turn?  Does Talonbane skip his action this turn or next turn?  My gut says it would all take effect next turn, but then the Ion Token reference card says:

 

There's enough ambiguity in the rules that I'm unsure the right call to make.  Any thoughts/clarifications?

Edited August 12, 2015 by mightyspacepope

[MikeNYHC 217]

I believe that the action skipping occurs the turn that the Net is dropped regardless. I've heard some people strongly assert that if you haven't revealed your dial then the 1 straight happens that turn as well.

 

Anybody confident on the actual way to play?

[Jobu 720]

I originally 100% thought you lose your action this turn and became ionized next turn (since you already set your dial).

 

Now I am starting to think that I am wrong.  You get the ion effect this turn and lose your action, discarding your dial.

 

I guess we will find out when the new FAQ comes out in Sept.

[MikeNYHC 217]

Yeah, it seems like with the wording on the reference card suggests that if a ship in the Activation Phase has an ion token it moves with a 1 white straight maneuver regardless of whether a dial was originally placed or not.

[mightyspacepope 356]

I guess another question would be this:

 

If Miranda drops the Net on a ship that has already activated (let's say an IG-88B), does it lose it's action next turn, or does that part of the card have no effect, since the ship would've already taken its action this turn?

[Sergovan 1,440]

A similar interaction was answered via e-mail from Frank but was not updated in the current FAQ. I have heard both sides of the argument and really don't know what the final call will be.

 

P.S. Franks response was that the dial was used and the ion tokens would take place the following turn. That was for a Leebo (crew) boost with advanced sensors on a B-wing. But it is not official yet.

[VanorDM 11,599]

But it is not official yet.

Yeah per Frank's ruling you'd lose your action this turn and make a 1 straight next turn. But that's an email ruling not a FAQ rule, so it's a matter of how official you consider the email rulings to be.

Myself I figure since it's one of the game developers it's official until a FAQ ruling comes out that contradicts it.

[phild0 1,735]

If you have a dial assigned to a ship. I'm pretty sure you move based on that dial. Conner Net doesn't say anything about removing any assigned movement dials. If that was the intent, I think it would have been explicitly described.

[VanorDM 11,599]

It can be argued that the Ion token is what causes that. The conner net causes you to miss your action and gives you 2 ion tokens, it's the ion rules that matter here.

The argument is, that each part of the ion rules are separate, and you don't need to do them in order, so even though you have a dial set, the Ion rules would 'overrule' what the dial shows. I'm not going to say how good or bad that argument is, just saying that's what the thinking is.

[Forgottenlore 9,838]

Do the Ion Tokens take effect THIS turn, so Talonbane is forced to do the white 1 straight maneuver, or does it take effect NEXT turn?  Does Talonbane skip his action this turn or next turn?

We don't know.

[VanorDM 11,599]

We don't know.

We kinda do. We have a ruling from Frank about using Leebo (crew) with advanced sensors. He said tht the ion token effect doesn't happen until next turn.

So you'd lose your action this turn, and deal with the ion token the next, per that ruling.

[Parravon 5,217]

Yeah, I agree with VanorDM on this. I don't think you can just remove the dial once it's been set. The ion effect normally kicks in on the following turn. It's still pretty nasty when it stops an action AND ionizes you.

[Forgottenlore 9,838]

We don't know.

We kinda do. We have a ruling from Frank about using Leebo (crew) with advanced sensors. He said tht the ion token effect doesn't happen until next turn.So you'd lose your action this turn, and deal with the ion token the next, per that ruling.

But that ruling was a while ago, didn't make it into the FAQ, and now with Conner nets there are additional timing problems. Using that ruling, it is possible for a small ship to have 2 ion tokens on it, one of which us supposed to effect it this round, one which doesn't effect it till next round.

Franks ruling on leebo was fine because under that ruling leebo didn't create additional problems. That ruling used with Conner nets creates a clusterf*^%#k of timing problems.

[MikeNYHC 217]

These sort of rules gaps really bother me. According not to the card it seems clear that if a ship has an Ion Token when it activates it performs a 1 white straight. I feel this is separate from the Planning phase part of not placing a dial. I don't like that Leebo ruling and I wish they had put it in the FAQ.

[digitalbusker 2,248]

Is there a case to be made that the Leebo ruling is different because Leebo's activation has already started?

[StephenEsven 632]

I am on the Leebo ruling side for the ion effects. It kicks in the turné after. However I disagree about løsning your action. Since you are not the acrive ship when the Connery ner første off, you have no Perform action step to skip. You get damage and ion tokens. Tjener the Connery net is removed. When the affected shop egen activates it reveals its dialog, lovede and performance it's action, because it didn't overlapper a conner net during its axtivation.

So it would be better dropping the Conner net just in front rather than on the enemy ship.

[Jobu 720]

 

 

We don't know.

We kinda do. We have a ruling from Frank about using Leebo (crew) with advanced sensors. He said tht the ion token effect doesn't happen until next turn.So you'd lose your action this turn, and deal with the ion token the next, per that ruling.

But that ruling was a while ago, didn't make it into the FAQ, and now with Conner nets there are additional timing problems. Using that ruling, it is possible for a small ship to have 2 ion tokens on it, one of which us supposed to effect it this round, one which doesn't effect it till next round.

Franks ruling on leebo was fine because under that ruling leebo didn't create additional problems. That ruling used with Conner nets creates a clusterf*^%#k of timing problems.

 

 

Gurgle, I didn't even think of that interaction yet.  It didn't open a can of worms, it threw those worms all over the room and ground their bloody bits into the carpet.

 

I like what they were aiming for with the Conner Net, I just wished that it was implemented more eloquently (if thats the right word).

[Smuggler 556]

I never liked the Leebo ruling. The ion reference card is very clear what to do at different stages of the game if you find your ship with an ion tooken. Why mess around with that clearity and introduce even more exceptions and special cases to remember?

[Funkleton 2,510]

 

 Using that ruling, it is possible for a small ship to have 2 ion tokens on it, one of which us supposed to effect it this round, one which doesn't effect it till next round.

 

 

How so?

 

Unless I am overlooking something obvious (a distinct possibility ) , Frank's clarification basically stated that if ion token(s) are assigned to a ship that has not yet moved but already has a dial assigned to it, the effect that the ion token(s) have on maneuvering does not come into play until the next planning phase - once the "ion maneuver" has been performed in the subsequent activation phase ALL ion tokens are removed.

So there's really no way for the situation you describe to happen.

 

unless....

 

as previously stated.....

 

I'm overlooking something 

[StephenEsven 632]

you are not

[Jobu 720]

 

 

 Using that ruling, it is possible for a small ship to have 2 ion tokens on it, one of which us supposed to effect it this round, one which doesn't effect it till next round.

 

 

How so?

 

Unless I am overlooking something obvious (a distinct possibility ) , Frank's clarification basically stated that if ion token(s) are assigned to a ship that has not yet moved but already has a dial assigned to it, the effect that the ion token(s) have on maneuvering does not come into play until the next planning phase - once the "ion maneuver" has been performed in the subsequent activation phase ALL ion tokens are removed.

So there's really no way for the situation you describe to happen.

 

unless....

 

as previously stated.....

 

I'm overlooking something 

 

 

Turn 1 I get shot with an Ion cannon and get an ion token.

 

Turn 2 I don't set a dial,. the someone drops a Conner Net on me and I get another 2 ion tokens.  I do a one white forward and do I lose 1 or 3 Ion tokens at that time?  In one interpretation you would lose 1 of the 3 tokens, in another you would lose 3.

[Funkleton 2,510]

 

 

 

 Using that ruling, it is possible for a small ship to have 2 ion tokens on it, one of which us supposed to effect it this round, one which doesn't effect it till next round.

 

 

How so?

 

Unless I am overlooking something obvious (a distinct possibility ) , Frank's clarification basically stated that if ion token(s) are assigned to a ship that has not yet moved but already has a dial assigned to it, the effect that the ion token(s) have on maneuvering does not come into play until the next planning phase - once the "ion maneuver" has been performed in the subsequent activation phase ALL ion tokens are removed.

So there's really no way for the situation you describe to happen.

 

unless....

 

as previously stated.....

 

I'm overlooking something 

 

 

Turn 1 I get shot with an Ion cannon and get an ion token.

 

Turn 2 I don't set a dial,. the someone drops a Conner Net on me and I get another 2 ion tokens.  I do a one white forward and do I lose 1 or 3 Ion tokens at that time?  In one interpretation you would lose 1 of the 3 tokens, in another you would lose 3.

 

 

I'm not sure there is more than one way to interpret the phrase "After executing this maneuver, remove all ion tokens from your ship"

 

Edited August 13, 2015 by Funkleton

[Smuggler 556]

 

 

 

 

 Using that ruling, it is possible for a small ship to have 2 ion tokens on it, one of which us supposed to effect it this round, one which doesn't effect it till next round.

 

 

How so?

 

Unless I am overlooking something obvious (a distinct possibility ) , Frank's clarification basically stated that if ion token(s) are assigned to a ship that has not yet moved but already has a dial assigned to it, the effect that the ion token(s) have on maneuvering does not come into play until the next planning phase - once the "ion maneuver" has been performed in the subsequent activation phase ALL ion tokens are removed.

So there's really no way for the situation you describe to happen.

 

unless....

 

as previously stated.....

 

I'm overlooking something 

 

 

Turn 1 I get shot with an Ion cannon and get an ion token.

 

Turn 2 I don't set a dial,. the someone drops a Conner Net on me and I get another 2 ion tokens.  I do a one white forward and do I lose 1 or 3 Ion tokens at that time?  In one interpretation you would lose 1 of the 3 tokens, in another you would lose 3.

 

 

I'm not sure there is more than one way to interpret the phrase "After executing this maneuver, remove all ion tokens from your ship"

 

 

Well, I didn't think there was more then one way to interpret "A ship with an ion token assigned to it follows special rules during these phases" either, but acording to the Frank ruling, it can be interpreted as "A ship with an ion token assigned to it (and no maneuver dial assigned to it) follows special rules during these phases".

[dotswarlock 2,424]

Well, here is how I see it:

 

- Maranda does her move and drops the coner's net as described.

- Since it is placed under Talonbane, it detonates immediately.  Talonbane recieves 1 damage, 2 ion and must skip his perform action step.

- Now Talonbane activates and he already has a dial, the planning phase is also passed, so that does not take effect here.  Talonbane therefore performs his manoeuver as planned, but must skip his perform action step as written.  The 2 ion tokens remain since the condition for their removal has not been met.

 

Next turn:

- Planning phase: Talonbane has ion tokens, so he cannot assign a dial.

- Activation phase: do the 1 white forward, remove the ion tokens as written.

- Combat phase: the ship can attack as normal

- (So overal: he is ionned in the same way that we are used to)

 

That's how I see it, anyway.

[VanorDM 11,599]

But that ruling was a while ago, didn't make it into the FAQ

It's still the only ruling we have. How old it is shouldn't matter, we still use FAQ rulings from the first FAQ.

The fact that it never made it into the FAQ also doesn't change the fact that it's the only ruling we have. Until we have something in a FAQ that overrules what Frank said, it's the ruling I'd use as a TO.