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Jut

What on God's Green Earth has GW done to Warhammer Fantasy?

By Jut, in X-Wing Off-Topic

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Jut    105

Jut
Posted (edited)

Hi all!

 

Thanks for the responses!!! I did not see the previous thread, my apologies for missing that and my thanks for the link to it.

 

I really don't want this to turn into a GW bash or rant, because really, how easy is that?

 

Here is what I loved:

 

I loved the mass ranks of infantry of Orcs and Goblins, blocks of Black Orcs and Big 'Uns; a nice solid unit of Boar Boyz and 2 small units of Goblin Wolf Riders to harass the flanks.  It was nice to set up the Rock Lobbas and Doom Divers on that one well placed hill on your side.  I loved the nice big 4x6 tables with trees, maybe a pond or small river running though one corner.  Maybe an old farm house or ruins.

 

It had the look and feel of a massed army taking the field of battle!!!!!!  And I would gladly pay $500-$1,000 for that experience.  Sure, probably not for everyone, but the size, scope and sequence of Warhammer Fantasy Battles was just fantastic! (I played 2nd through 5th editions, a bit of 6th)

 

SO . . . I was just  . . . shocked?  Dismayed?  Puzzled?  "What I am feeling right now?  What is this?" (Gross Pointe Blank quote)  I just was not sure what I was looking at the other day, seeing the AoS models and really thinking: this looks like Fantasy Space Marines and a LOT like Warmachine.

 

I guess I would be lying if I didn't want to actually see what a Bretonnian Knight would look like with the AoS "treatment", but will the game (and the company) last that long?

 

We live in interesting times my friends and there are a finite number of gamers, games and money; and for the last SERVERAL years FFG has been getting most of my interest, money and maybe most importantly: my time.  

 

Thanks again for all the interesting reading and info on this topic!!!

Edited by Jut
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FTS Gecko    24,135

FTS Gecko
Posted

It's sad I know, but I still want to pick up a few GW products for completionist's sake.  I have 40 or so painted Bloodletters, plus Juggernauts, Heralds and a Forge World Daemon Prince (all on square bases, OBVIOUSLY), and I really want to pick up the Bloodthirster, some Balfeul Realmgates and am casting sidelong glances at some of the AoS Khorne releases as well.

 

But this is purely a Pokémon gotta-have-them-all phenomenon; I'll never play them, I'll probably never paint them.

 

Yet the inner geek in me really, really wants to just possess these models.  To finish what I started.  Even though my brain is telling me "SELL!  SELL!  SELL!"

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Robin Graves    6,054

Robin Graves
Posted

 

Oh yeah that's not an insulting outdated view of nerds at all...someone didnt get the memo we don't all live in basements.

 

 

Yeah! Some of us still live with mother.

 

And our motel isn't doing to well so I don't have much money to spend on minatures. Still lot's of free time to paint the models tough. That reminds me, mother asked me to fix the shower...

 

Ok ok. I'm not actually Norman Bates :D

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GML    124

GML
Posted

I was lurking in the other thread only because I didn't want to get involved with the angst. But from a non-GW gamer who spends waaaaay to much time at the FLGS, Age of Sigmar is the best thing that has ever happened to Warhammer. The manager of my FLGS has worked there for decades and the store has been open since 1987 so it's no joke to say that they've seen some s**t. And by all their accounts Warhammer was dead on the shelf, a niche buy at best, a game people never got into without serious coercing. For all the old players who are bellyaching about it? They've got news for them, they all don't buy enough. Period end of story. They've got their armies from years ago and all they buy now are the books, if they even buy those. The store itself and all the workers there, who are all Warhammer players on some level, most are fairly into it with multiple large armies, have absolutely zero sympathy for you because frankly they weren't supporting the game enough to keep it viable. Harsh as it sounds that's the truth. A lot of transactions were happening aftermarket too which didn't help, what with people selling and buying full armies on the cheap.

But you know what AoS has done? Sold. And sold well. To old players and new players. For the first time in more than two years there's an actual GROUP on a regular night. Players can get into it quickly. The price entry point is the lowest it could probably be with the removal of mandatory units, and the army you bring can truly be your own. It is such a throw back to the dawn of wargaming that it is beautiful. (see "Little Wars" by H.G. Wells) On balance? The rules say bring what you think is balanced. So if your up against some insane combo or army or whatever, the game literally tells you to rebalance your game by bringing enough to balance it out or take away from the broken side. Not balanced you say? The power is literally in your hands, granted you by the rules, to make it balanced again. The only way your going to have a problem is if you can't talk with your mates in a grown up fashion about it. Doesn't that please you?

So from a guy who was never interested in the game before but is now. And who has a Tau 40k army sitting in the corner with a sign sitting on it that says "example of bad game/rule writing lab exercise" (I'll let you figure that one out) I wish the game nothing but the best. And I desperately hope they do a rule set overhaul just like it for 40k.

My LGS owner has said the same thing.  Age of Sigmar has increased his fantasy sales by a wide margin.  He is actually moving product again!

 

AoS has no tactical depth you smash both armies into the middle and roll dice there's no need for well chosen movement no bonus for a well executed flank move you just form a most pit and roll dice till one person gets bored and calls it.

Initially it may be popular but in six months will it still be going strong?

 

But what was 8th edition?  There wasn't any real tactical movements of the random charges.  There was no well executed flanking because a wizard with a spell could turn around and annihilate anything in their path.

 

The game was smash in the centre and roll dice, who ever rolled better or had better units won.  That is why I stopped playing the game so many years ago and focused on 40k.

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Gadge    4,294

Gadge
Posted

Then again Warhammer *always* had flawed editions.

 

3rd edition is my favourite but its incredibly situational and heros/wizards cost far more than they are worth but if you rolled the right random spells could be devastating

 

Hero over power peaked in 4th/5th edition.

 

I used to play dark elves and one of the most lethal combinations you could take (and i rarely did, usually only to prove a point) was:

 

4th level dark elf wizard - so you're getting most the spells

cloak of mist and shadows - you're ethereal, move 48 inches through any cover and are immune to non magic weapons

forbidden rod  - everything cast with 'total power', cant be nullified but you take a wound

amber amulet - regain a wound start of each turn.

 

Essentially that was a one elf army that shredded anything and was very very hard to kill.

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Hobojebus    11,341

Hobojebus
Posted

Yeah hero hammer was also a terrible edition your infantry was worthless.

From hearsay on forums it really sounds like it's 40k players trying AoS and people panic buying units for oldhammer that's caused the spike in sales.

It really doesn't say anything that it's doing well now if it can't sustain those sales.

8th made alot of people leave wfb just like 7th did before that, but they couldn't get new players because cost of entry was £500 which is stupidly expensive.

AoS is meant to be played with a hundred models each side and the sigmarines are £5 a model £7 for elites £20 for heroes you do the maths and you'll see your paying the same for far fewer models.

They are releasing existing kits like the doomwheel on round bases and upping the price by several pounds and that'll happen with each rerelease.

The rules are poor, the cost of entry hasn't dropped you just get even less now for your money and I don't see it being around a year from now.

And if they do this to 40k like reliable sources say they are cutting their own throats.

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Robin Graves    6,054

Robin Graves
Posted

Then again Warhammer *always* had flawed editions.

 

3rd edition is my favourite but its incredibly situational and heros/wizards cost far more than they are worth but if you rolled the right random spells could be devastating

 

Hero over power peaked in 4th/5th edition.

 

I used to play dark elves and one of the most lethal combinations you could take (and i rarely did, usually only to prove a point) was:

 

4th level dark elf wizard - so you're getting most the spells

cloak of mist and shadows - you're ethereal, move 48 inches through any cover and are immune to non magic weapons

forbidden rod  - everything cast with 'total power', cant be nullified but you take a wound

amber amulet - regain a wound start of each turn.

 

Essentially that was a one elf army that shredded anything and was very very hard to kill.

 

I think the reason D elves were so badass was they were good at a lot of things: magic, combat (witch elves! huzzah!) those **** bolt throwers. Characters flying high o black dragons and the possible threat of having a character killing assassin in each infantry block...

 

4th's my fave, if possibly only because of nostalgia...

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FTS Gecko    24,135

FTS Gecko
Posted

~1400 in real money but they mark it up to $1600, greedy sods.

 

I don't think either of us are likely to buy one anyway, soI guess the point is moot.

 

In all honestly, how many people worldwide are likely to drop those kind of figures on scenery?

 

It's insane.  GW's entire strategy is clinically insane.

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Hobojebus    11,341

Hobojebus
Posted

~1400 in real money but they mark it up to $1600, greedy sods.

 

I don't think either of us are likely to buy one anyway, soI guess the point is moot.

 

In all honestly, how many people worldwide are likely to drop those kind of figures on scenery?

 

It's insane.  GW's entire strategy is clinically insane.

I'd like to say no one but there are plenty of fan boys with more money than sense.

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Hobojebus    11,341

Hobojebus
Posted

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Warhammer?N=102295+4294967192Ν=product.repositoryId&qty=12&sorting=phl&view=table&_requestid=13033225

 

I didn't want to believe it £60 for a gate alone...A GATE!

 

How is it every week GW manages to do something that utterly stuns us?

 

I should be beyond getting shocked at this point...£680 for a Chinese plastic set that cost them maybe a tenner to make.

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Crawfskeezen    370

Crawfskeezen
Posted

I've been making my own terrain for 40k since day 1. The only terrain I ever bought from GW was an Aegis Defence Line (because I play guard and I needed a Quad-gun to convert my Hydra at the time). But there are people in my former 40k gaming group who's entire terrain collection consists of GW pieces. There will be people who will fork over the $120-$1400 for some bull$%!*. And I will shudder. And the peasants will cry. 

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