What on God's Green Earth has GW done to Warhammer Fantasy?

[Jut 105]

Okay folks, I have not been living under a rock, I have just been SUPER busy this summer and FFG has had ALL (well most) of my gaming money for YEARS now.

 

I have sold off nearly all my GW stuff over the years, but I have still held on to my good ol' Bretonnians. There is just something about them that I love. I even love the Warhammer Fantasy World that GW created.

 

And I had heard that there were some changes coming to WFB and that they were doing a "End Times" thing and destroying the world and making a "new" game system out of fantasy.

 

Just saw the "Age of Sigmar" stuff and here are my three main thoughts:

 

"This looks like Space Marines and 40k, but kinda Fantasyish."

 

"This looks like Warmachine and Hordes."

 

"I got to get my hands on Wave 7 X-wing stuff, a Raider, definitely need to save up for Wave 8. I need to get all of Wave 2 for Armada, probably at least two of everything. Return to Hoth? Plastic Wampas and there's two of them? Yes please!"

 

 

Okay rant done here . . . I guess, but seriously GW, what the heck? 

 

 

Okay here is a ligit question: Is GW going to lean on FFG to help save their sorry company?

[Tipperary 2,370]

Nobody can save GW now. The best hope is that they have to sell their IPs to a company that will actually use them so we can finally get a GG/Eisenhorn/Ravenor TV show and a decent Inquisition game.

[Jut 105]

What are the chances of another company actually buying the GW IPs?

 

Who would be on a top 3 list to do that?  FFG?  WotC?  Hasbro?

 

Who are the major palyers in the gaming industry that would/could buy up GW? 

[Forgottenlore 9,838]

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/182002-so-age-of-sigmar-gw-aka-great-wasteland-has-comited-heresy/

[Sithborg 11,644]

What are the chances of another company actually buying the GW IPs?

 

Who would be on a top 3 list to do that?  FFG?  WotC?  Hasbro?

 

Who are the major palyers in the gaming industry that would/could buy up GW? 

 

Asomodee seems to be growing quite big. Though, they just had their big FFG buyout...

[Forgottenlore 9,838]

No one CAN buy GW unless the current major stockholders decide to sell their stock. In fact, I think Kirby actually owns more than 50% of the company's stock (which explains why GW pays dividends constantly, even when their profits are plummeting) so whether or not GW gets "bought" is entirely up to him.

 

One school of thought is that he is deliberately trying to milk as much out of the company as he can before retiring, long term health be damned, and that he will dump his stock in the company just before it tanks massively. At which point, it is more likely that it will get bought by someone who wants the plastics manufacturing infrastructure and who doesn't care anything about gaming.

[Hobojebus 11,341]

Yeah the shark has been jumped and the fridge nuked.

What's worse reliable sources say the same things coming for 40k an end times then a reboot sometime in the next two years.

52p a share was paid this year that's a clear indication Kirby is cashing in before cashing out healthy companies reinvest profits to grow the company not to bribe shareholders.

It's more likely a company will buy them to sell parts off than to take them on as a going concern.

If they do pull an AoS on 40k that's pretty much game over.

[Arschbombe 1,001]

No one CAN buy GW unless the current major stockholders decide to sell their stock. In fact, I think Kirby actually owns more than 50% of the company's stock (which explains why GW pays dividends constantly, even when their profits are plummeting) so whether or not GW gets "bought" is entirely up to him.

 

Kirby only owns around 6% of the stock IIRC from their investor reports as discussed on Dakka.  He is the single biggest share holder. 

[FTS Gecko 24,135]

. . . I guess, but seriously GW, what the heck? 

 

Earlier this summer, we felt a great disturbance in the Force.  As if millions of voices suddenly cried out in outrage, then suddenly fell silent.  Something terrible had indeed happened.

 

Marienburg, Kislev, Praag, Altdorf, Mordheim... all gone.. Ulthuan, Naggaroth, Lustria... Cathay, Estalia and Araby... thirty years of stories, characters, locations and fluff... gone, gone forever...

 

...they burned it, Jut.  They burned it to the ground.  **** YOU, GEE DUBBA-YEW... **** YOU TO HELL!

[ForceSensitive 2,626]

I was lurking in the other thread only because I didn't want to get involved with the angst. But from a non-GW gamer who spends waaaaay to much time at the FLGS, Age of Sigmar is the best thing that has ever happened to Warhammer. The manager of my FLGS has worked there for decades and the store has been open since 1987 so it's no joke to say that they've seen some s**t. And by all their accounts Warhammer was dead on the shelf, a niche buy at best, a game people never got into without serious coercing. For all the old players who are bellyaching about it? They've got news for them, they all don't buy enough. Period end of story. They've got their armies from years ago and all they buy now are the books, if they even buy those. The store itself and all the workers there, who are all Warhammer players on some level, most are fairly into it with multiple large armies, have absolutely zero sympathy for you because frankly they weren't supporting the game enough to keep it viable. Harsh as it sounds that's the truth. A lot of transactions were happening aftermarket too which didn't help, what with people selling and buying full armies on the cheap.

But you know what AoS has done? Sold. And sold well. To old players and new players. For the first time in more than two years there's an actual GROUP on a regular night. Players can get into it quickly. The price entry point is the lowest it could probably be with the removal of mandatory units, and the army you bring can truly be your own. It is such a throw back to the dawn of wargaming that it is beautiful. (see "Little Wars" by H.G. Wells) On balance? The rules say bring what you think is balanced. So if your up against some insane combo or army or whatever, the game literally tells you to rebalance your game by bringing enough to balance it out or take away from the broken side. Not balanced you say? The power is literally in your hands, granted you by the rules, to make it balanced again. The only way your going to have a problem is if you can't talk with your mates in a grown up fashion about it. Doesn't that please you?

So from a guy who was never interested in the game before but is now. And who has a Tau 40k army sitting in the corner with a sign sitting on it that says "example of bad game/rule writing lab exercise" (I'll let you figure that one out) I wish the game nothing but the best. And I desperately hope they do a rule set overhaul just like it for 40k.

Edited August 12, 2015 by ForceSensitive

[Arschbombe 1,001]

Of course not every FLGS is seeing the same reaction.  In my neck of the woods AoS hasn't taken off.  It hasn't revitalized anything.  The veterans canceled their pre-orders.  No sign that any newbies are picking up either.   Folks are freaking out about the potential for 40k to get "sigmared."

 

The rules saying you can change things for balance isn't anything new.  The older books always said the same thing.  If you don't like something, change it.   People usually didn't because there was this cultural bias against house rules and the older games had enough structure to make house rules seems odd.  AoS has negligble structure so house rules feel much more natural and much more necessary.   But GW doesn't care about rules.  Just buy the models, dammit. 

[FTS Gecko 24,135]

Folks are freaking out about the potential for 40k to get "sigmared."

 

"Smegma'd".  The phrase is "Smegma'd".  As in "Age Of Smegma".

 

But yeah, Warhammer Fantasy had a pretty impressive tournament scene around here.  That's been flushed right down the crapper.

[Arschbombe 1,001]

I know.  I was using that term myself.  But I was trying to be polite here on this family forum. 

[FTS Gecko 24,135]

Pfftft, if anyone complans we'll just blame Red Dwarf

 

[Hobojebus 11,341]

AoS has no tactical depth you smash both armies into the middle and roll dice there's no need for well chosen movement no bonus for a well executed flank move you just form a most pit and roll dice till one person gets bored and calls it.

Initially it may be popular but in six months will it still be going strong?

GW will discontinue old kits and paying £5 a model for troops will be the norm we've already seen elites at £7 a model, what kid will be able to afford £300+ for fifty models?

Right now £2 per space marine looks like a bargain but if it gets killed off for a AoS version £5 marines will be the new norm and £7 terminators, prices will skyrocket and the dwindling players will flee to other games.

[Robin Graves 6,054]

the 5 quid per model isn't  so bad (okay it is but...) then they ask for 15 to 20 for a character model. And it's the same size as a regular rannk and file trooper ( so no mounted figs or nagash, etc.) I could buy another unit fior that!

 

Remmeber when they said they weren't gonna be making any new armybooks? The game hasn't been out for two months yet and we already got two fluff/ scenario/ warscroll books for 60+ each! The hell?

 

So yeah I'm not gonna bother with AoS... What's that? Forgeworld has a Chaos Dwarf warscroll compendium? Saaaay...

[uglyaardvark 0]

Well for the most part, despite the oneys twosys, AoS has been a complete flop. The game is terrible bad. The rules are pretty incomplete and poorly written. I live in a large metro area and have seen only 1 store even bother carry it, the local GW. None of the others stock it or play it. Granted they ditched WHFB as well. 40k is about all GW has going for it.

[Hobojebus 11,341]

Yeah £45 for 8 scenarios and a bunch of scrolls that are free online is a bad joke, the fact the limited edition still hasn't sold out after a month is very telling given GW fanboys eat up those pointless overpriced limited runs.

The games meant to be played with around 50 models so at £5 a model that's unrealistic expecting kids to buy it and most older players are so mad the warhammer world was destroyed they'll never play AoS.

GW's refusal to talk to customers really leads to some bad calls.

[Robin Graves 6,054]

And now I hear rumours of them going fully for a Horus Heresy game...

I'm not saying they are ditching 40k for 30k...yet.

[Gadge 4,294]

About a decade or more ago when share prices were really low there was a strong rumour around HQ that hasbro were going to buy up a lot of the shares and possibly take over GW.

 

A lot of us wanted this to happen as it would get rid of a lot of the 'old guard' who didnt really do much, refused to do market research etc etc.   

 

The problem GW has *always* has is that until quite recently it was a huge company (in the early 90s onwards) ran by guys who really were just guessing at what they were doing.    You essentially had a small business that rocketted to me multinational and went from about 5 stores in 1987 to 150 or so by 2000 but the guys running it still had a 'jobs for the boys' small business mentality and would promote their mates rather than get in proffessionals who knew what they were doing.

 

I used to call it the 'least rubbish' (i didnt use the word rubbish..) system, 'oh we need someone to manage lord of the rings, shall we get a proper project manager?  Nah, get Dave in, daves a good lad, been running derby store for years' etc, it was never 'who is most qualified' and more 'who is most likely to muck it up'.

 

The big changes to the company were two fold.

 

one is circa 1991-1993 when it went shareheld and instead of making cool stuff for the sake of it and if it sold it was a bonus they were no under pressure to makestuff that had higher returns... this is the death of smaller games (dark future, talisman, WHFRP etc) and the birth of the 'red period' with more space marines.

 

During 1980 - 1990 , GW made or licencesd nearly 100 games, by the 90s it drops to about 30, by the 2000s about 5!

 

The second big turning point is around 2003 when they DO start getting in proffesionals, for example Mark Wells is made head of UK (he used to run boots pharmaceuticals in the uk iirc) and he starts hiking up prices looking for the 'premium price'

 

A lot of analists are brought in.  One story that stuck and im pretty sure its true but i cant tell you where i heard it was that a business analist was paid a LOT of money to review their sales and worked out that 'black spray paint' had the highest profit margins and sold the most... he recommended that GW only sold black spray paint... the purpose of the paint eluded him.

 

Thats the flipside and what happens when you hand over decisions to the men with calculators and spreadsheets but no understanding of 'the hobby'.

 

 

All of that info i learned while working a dept manager in UK studio in the early 2000s

[Hobojebus 11,341]

And now I hear rumours of them going fully for a Horus Heresy game...

I'm not saying they are ditching 40k for 30k...yet.

Which worries alot of people because they've invested alot in forgeworlds 30k system because unlike gw they seem to give a **** and listen to customer feedback, gw taking that away from forgeworld will see another mass exodus.

Fw resin isn't cheap but it's high quality in detail unlike GW`s fine cast, paying the same price for plastic as they did for resin will anger many.

[Arschbombe 1,001]

Didn't GW send a guy on a two-year quest to find out what their customers want?   Did he come back already and was AoS what he said people wanted?

[FTS Gecko 24,135]

I'm pretty sure the answer wants "burn the Warhammer World to the ground, and rename everything for copyright purposes".

 

To be fair, if GW sent him out amongst the fans he probably went all Stockholm syndrome and defected.

[Robin Graves 6,054]

Didn't GW send a guy on a two-year quest to find out what their customers want?   Did he come back already and was AoS what he said people wanted?

 

Literally the first thing that pops up in my head having read this:

 

The Long Walk from Judge Dredd.

 

GW staffer: "You know guys, we should try and find out what the customers want instead of-"

CEO: "very well! You are hereby sent on a two year penitent crusade to study these so called "customers"! Dare not come back untill this task is fullfilled! You shall leave at once!"

GW staffer: "But I-ok. *sob*"

CEO: "so then gentleman, back to age of sigmar?"

 

Edited August 13, 2015 by Robin Graves

[FTS Gecko 24,135]

Judge Minty?   "Minty"?!

Edited August 13, 2015 by FTS Gecko