Power sword and Power Axe combo - worth it?

[Talon of Anathrax 55]

In my experience, when people design characters dual wielding melee weapons, they usually give them two swords for some reason. I blame Drizzt.

Is dual-wielding a single sword (to parry with) and an axe (because it has more damage) better than using two swords?

I understand that with the axe you lose out on Lightning Attacks (with both weapons). However, for a character with say, WS 50 and S 35, I wonder which of the two options would be the most effective.

Are there any specific rules about this kind of thing I should know?

How do I mathhammer that out?

Edited August 11, 2015 by Talon of Anathrax

[Flail-Bot 93]

I think the assumptions you'd need to make would make the math pretty impossible. There's too many details. The axe does more damage, but does less hits, but what if you All Out Attack (can you do that with both weapons)?

 

WS 40, with Lighting Attack, averages 2 hits, but with only a 30% chance of success. So... 0.6 hits. Throw in another 0.5 hits for the axe attack. Blah blah blah, math math. Basically, the benefits of Lightning Attack massively outweigh the costs, UNLESS YOU MISS. As your WS goes up, Lightning Attack is more and more worthwhile (duh). But it scales faster than just a single attack with an axe. For every possible result, except for the corner case between the -10 and +10 of Lightning Attack and Standard attack, the sword is better (another corner case, 2 less damage when LA hits with only 1 DoS). 2 damage isn't much, if you're adding SB, Crushing Blow, etc.

 

Flat modifiers scale with multiple attacks, something the axe lacks.

 

In short, LA with 2 swords is probably best. But it's boring.

 

Side note which invalidates everything. In DH2, the Power Axe and Chain Axe are both 2 handed. There is no Low-Tech axe (is it in Enemies Within?).

[Talon of Anathrax 55]

 

Side note which invalidates everything. In DH2, the Power Axe and Chain Axe are both 2 handed. There is no Low-Tech axe (is it in Enemies Within?).

 

What? Where does it say that? [Crushed Dreams face]

I don't suppose that there's some weapon upgrade to  make it one-handed?

I could always ask my GM for a 1-handed version that is Unwieldy instead of Unbalanced, and has -1 to damage but is 1-handed or something...

 

Otherwise, maybe Shock Maul + sword could be better.

[madMAEXX 84]

In Enemies Within, under the Forge World (Binary something something, I don't have the book with me) there is a power hand axe, that is one handed and can even be thrown with a 5m base range. It is in the profile of the Ebon Sentinels, but can easily be adapted for PC use.

[Tegman 12]

I understand that with the axe you lose out on Lightning Attacks (with both weapons).

 

 

Why would you loose Lightning Attack with the sword? I can't see anything in the rules about that, just that the weapon (the axe in this case) itself loose the ability.

[Tegman 12]

The Power Hand Axe that madMAEXX hinted about is similar to a Power Sword.

Power Hand Axe

Range: 5m

Dam: 1d10+5

Pen: 4

Wt: 3

AVL: VR

Special: Power Field, Thrown

[Talon of Anathrax 55]

 

I understand that with the axe you lose out on Lightning Attacks (with both weapons).

 

 

Why would you loose Lightning Attack with the sword? I can't see anything in the rules about that, just that the weapon (the axe in this case) itself loose the ability.

 

When you attack witg two weapons, you have to do the same action with both weapons - so if the Axe can't lightning attackm the other can't either.

Am I wrong?

[Talon of Anathrax 55]

The Power Hand Axe that madMAEXX hinted about is similar to a Power Sword.

Power Hand Axe

Range: 5m

Dam: 1d10+5

Pen: 4

Wt: 3

AVL: VR

Special: Power Field, Thrown

So it's basically a power sword that can be thrown instead of being Balanced. That's perfect! Thanks a million!

And I presume that those stats come from Enemies Within - i'll go look for the page number to justify it to my GM.

 

This does mean that I can use the mathhammer from the dual-sword wielders, but the character will be a bit less "bland"

Edited August 11, 2015 by Talon of Anathrax

[Tegman 12]

I've just checked the rules and on p.228 under Two-Weapon Fighting it states that you can first attack with one weapon (either a Standard attack, Swift Attack, or Lightning Attack). You can then attack with the other weapon (either a Standard attack, Swift Attack, or Lightning Attack), with any applicable modifiers to the test.

 

So yes, you can make Lightning Attacks with one hand and Swift Attacks with the other hand, if you want to (or must, depending on the weapon). But the Power Hand Axe can be Lightning Attacked with.

[Flail-Bot 93]

 

 

I understand that with the axe you lose out on Lightning Attacks (with both weapons).

 

 

Why would you loose Lightning Attack with the sword? I can't see anything in the rules about that, just that the weapon (the axe in this case) itself loose the ability.

 

When you attack witg two weapons, you have to do the same action with both weapons - so if the Axe can't lightning attackm the other can't either.

Am I wrong?

 

 

I think you're wrong. I think the rules are under Two-Weapon Fighting, where you choose 1 action to do with 1 weapon and then can do any other (valid, half-action) attack action with the other weapon.

 

It's in the FAQ.

“When armed with two one-handed weapons (either melee or ranged weapons), after making a Half Action attack (this can be a Standard Attack, a Swift Attack, or a Lightning Attack with a melee weapon, or it can be a single shot, semi-auto burst, or full auto burst with a ranged weapon), he can make a single additional Half Action attack following the same restrictions with the other weapon as a Free Action.”

 

I think the restrictions referred to here are that it must be either a Standard, Swift, or Lightning Attack. Additionally, the move must be legal by standard rules. i.e. not Lighting Attack with an unwieldy weapon.

 

 

 

 

Side note which invalidates everything. In DH2, the Power Axe and Chain Axe are both 2 handed. There is no Low-Tech axe (is it in Enemies Within?).

 

What? Where does it say that? [Crushed Dreams face]

 

[Apologetic Face About Your Crushed Dreams] 2 handed weapons have a little cross next to their name in the weapons list. At the bottom of the chart, this is shown to indicate that the weapon is 2 handed.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Flail-Bot

[Melil13 8]

I for one am a fan of a power mace or shock mace in a twf PC. Force them toughness checks to benefit from +20 tohit vs a stunned target. Then you can benefit from balanced sword for parrying/Pen/Dmg ect.

[cpteveros 255]

Forcing a Stun test with a Power Maul is basically an auto-win. Stunned enemies cannot attack or dodge, and any attacks against them automatically succeed. Watch as your players shred through all of your carefully-wrought encounters, and laugh maniacally as they moan when you do it against them. 

[Tegman 12]

Forcing a Stun test with a Power Maul is basically an auto-win. Stunned enemies cannot attack or dodge, and any attacks against them automatically succeed. Watch as your players shred through all of your carefully-wrought encounters, and laugh maniacally as they moan when you do it against them. 

 

You don't automatically succeed with your attack against a stunned opponent, but you do get +20 to hit (with both BS and WS), iirc.

[madMAEXX 84]

Watch as your players shred through all of your carefully-wrought encounters, and laugh maniacally as they moan when you do it against them. 

 

They have to get into melee range first. If they get that close without encountering barrages of lead or las, they are either very clever (and deserve the easy win) you did something wrong as a GM.

[cpteveros 255]

 

Watch as your players shred through all of your carefully-wrought encounters, and laugh maniacally as they moan when you do it against them. 

 

They have to get into melee range first. If they get that close without encountering barrages of lead or las, they are either very clever (and deserve the easy win) you did something wrong as a GM.

 

 

I was being facetious more than anything, but there are plenty of enemies that might attack in melee without ranged volleys before hand, and at a short distance too. Not every enemy is a gun-wielding human attacking from far away. I was commenting on how powerful Stun is against enemies and PCs alike.

 

 

Forcing a Stun test with a Power Maul is basically an auto-win. Stunned enemies cannot attack or dodge, and any attacks against them automatically succeed. Watch as your players shred through all of your carefully-wrought encounters, and laugh maniacally as they moan when you do it against them. 

 

You don't automatically succeed with your attack against a stunned opponent, but you do get +20 to hit (with both BS and WS), iirc.

 

 

You are right, I am mistaken. I was thinking of Helpless Targets, which in the description, exempts Prone or Stunned targets. 

[KommissarK 209]

Also, for at least the important foes with Touched by the Fates, don't forget that a fate point can be spent in order to immediately recover from Stunned.