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Kael

Saber Swarm and Double Bladed Lightsaber

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I would say no since the talent states the next lightsaber (agility) attack gains the linked quality equal to force rating outright. Qualities only stack if they state gain +x quality just like how the defensive training talent does not stack with defense 1 quality inherent to a melee weapon but the Lorridan(sp?) crystal mods of +1 defense would stack.

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Agreed. For a destiny point I allow a player to stack unstackables for one round

I'd still call that pretty cheap for a cost, especially if the players and GM are making constant use of Destiny Points.

 

With Ataru Striker, allowing the Linked quality to stack is going to give them a much higher damage output, as they're going to hit 3 or 4 ranks in Lightsaber long before they get a Force Rating of 3, or possibly even a Force Rating of 2.  So instead of spending that Destiny Point to upgrade their attack check, they're spending it for a very good chance of getting a second and third hit in even with just Force Rating 1, as your house rule would give them Linked 2 for that attack.  Add in the one or two ranks of Quick Strike that Ataru Striker offers, and the chance of that first attack being a fight ender increases substantially.

 

I don't know how long you've been playing this system, but three hits with a Breach 1 unmodded ligthsaber is pretty devastating.  Even a Nemesis with the Parry talent is still going to be burning a lot of strain to avoid getting butchered on those hits and likely still be taking a decent amount of damage.

 

It almost reaches autofire levels of being broken in terms of how powerful it has the very easy potential to be.

Edited by Donovan Morningfire

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Honestly, I'd allow the link bonus from Saber Swarm to stack with that of the double bladed lightsaber.

 

A double bladed lightsaber is *supposed* to be a weapon designed to overwhelm and intimidate. But in either case, you still need to generate two Advantage icons per extra attack. So even if you have a double bladed lightsaber and, say, a force rating of 3 (really high end for anyone besides a Consular), and hence Linked 4 on that attack, the odds of you ever being able to generate *8* Advantages on one roll are close to non existent (remember that if most of your dice roll Advantages and none of the difficulty dice rolled threats, it means you may have missed the attack to begin with).

 

Otherwise, you run into two problems:

 

- Saber Swarm invalidates the usage of a double bladed lightsaber. 1 Strain per round is nothing compared to the potential of scoring 3 or 4 hits. So why use a double bladed lightsaber at all?

- Saber Swarm would be useless at FR 1 if you use a double bladed lightsaber since both give you Linked 1, but only one of them costs Strain.

 

On the other hand, at FR 2, whether to use a double bladed lightsaber's Linked or Linked 2 from Saber Swarm could be a toss up due to the one Strain ... but even then, I'd still be inclined to use Saber Swarm all the time since Strain 1 for two extra hits is a ridiculously good trade off.

Edited by infusco

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Saber Swarm is meant to provide the LInked quality to weapons that lack said ability, much as the Defensive Training talents are meant to provide the Defensive weapon quality to melee weapons, and so override any ranks of Defensive a weapon already has.

 

There are numerous situations within the rules where if there's no plus sign then the effects do NOT stack.  Ranged defense provided by cover (static 1 point of ranged defense) and armor (static 1 point of defense in most instances) is one such instance.

 

Saber Swarm doesn't say "add Linked +X where X = Force Rating" but instead says "add Linked X where X = Force Rating."  So it's pretty clear that Saber Swarm would overriade a pre-existing LInked quality with its effects.

 

And for an Ataru Striker wielding a double-bladed lightsaber, it just means they can skip the talent until they reach FR 2, and in the meantime get the benefit of Linked 1 without having to give up a manuever and a point of strain (and this specialization is very dependent upon strain) each round to have the option of scoring an additional hit.

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Good point with the Defensive Training comparison. I'm surprised it's not explicitly stated in Saber Swarm the way it is in the former.

The reason Defensive Training gets spelled out is Defensive is "add +1 to Melee Defense per rank," so without the exception listed in the talent, by the rules the Defensive +X from the talent would automatically stack with any Defensive qualities of the parent weapon.  Not so bad if the weapon only has Defensive 1, such as a vibrosword or a 'saber with a modified curved hilt.  But you take a 'saber with a Lorrdian Gemstone, add the modded curvied hilt, and then stack Defensive Training on top of it... that gets to be rather digusting pretty quickly, especially for Niman Disciple which itself offers two ranks of Defensive Training.

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