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Tromsicle

Lack or deployment cards in twin shadows

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That's lame. I hate when a game I don't play impacts a game that I do.

 

 

But the suggested alternatives of having multiple cards that can't be used in the campaign, or double siding the cards that makes keeping deployment groups hidden in the campaign is exactly what you said - a game (campaign players) don't play impacting a game (campaign players) do play.

 

As someone who enjoys both, I am frustrated by it, but a solution for one version will alienate other unless all models are offered both as smaller clampacks and included in the campaign. That's the easiest way out, after all, you can provide extra cards in a clampack that compensates for the models included in the box.

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If "multiple cards that can't be used in the campaign" were the issue, then they could use the little symbol they're also using for Leia and R2-D2, that says "hey, this deployment card is skirmish only".

 

Therefore, "multiple cards that can't be used in the campaign" would be a flimsy excuse.

Edited by DerBaer

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May be setting up a future pack release of Raiders and Heavy Stormtroopers like the Stormtrooper pack coming.

But this still leads to the issues that faced the Core Set meta; Why can't I easily buy that last Officer, Nexu, Trandoshan, E-Web, Royal Guard, Probe Droid, and so on for every box that comes out without an appropriate pack sold separately.

 

You'd have to comb the grey market, or pony up the dough for multiple Core Sets, but if you could whip up the 4 Royal Guard/4 Officer list, you could probably sweep your local playgroup unless someone did the same thing or invested in a Rebel Blast list.

 

Not that either of these is unbeatable, it's just that it creates this really bizarre barrier of entry to make a top-tier list, which is kind of atypical of FFG this way.  Even in the LCG world, you're at most investing in 3 Core Sets at $35 a pop (2 if you're playing Star Wars), but realistically, 2 will get you there, and there isn't as much perceived "waste" as there would be with Imperial Assault, with all those copies of the tiles and tokens.

 

Your only option then is to try and recoup your costs, which is more legwork to get you back to a decent return on investment then it would be to simply say "I want to spam some Royal Guards, thus I will buy a couple of these Royal Guard packs".

 

All we know is that there is a Stormtrooper pack coming, which is great, not just for getting another unit and a grey deployment card, but to flesh out the Trooper decks a little more, Rebels included.  As much as I like some of the cool models coming in future waves, like the Bantha Rider, I think we could have done away with the Alliance Smuggler and the Hired Guns in favour of some packs for the groups that come in these boxes.

 

I don't like to speculate and criticize the inner-workings of these business decisions, but I can't imagine that there was more demand for "Alliance Smuggler" than Royal Guards, Tuskens, and Officers as packs.  Like, did the IA community at large breathe a sigh of relief, saying "thank The Force we got these Hired Guns before they made blister packs of the models from the Core Set, that was a close one"?

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May be setting up a future pack release of Raiders and Heavy Stormtroopers like the Stormtrooper pack coming.

 

For each non-unique unit, they are setting us up to buy 1 more pack than we'd otherwise buy if they had included those missing cards in the first place. In some cases resulting in surplus figures (Royal Guards) where the only valuable item in the pack is that last grey card.

 

I don't like it.

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I've just ordered core sets 2 - 4. It was especially frustrating, because I've already bought several units on eBay. It just seems that noone is selling those regular Royal Guards ...

 

:wacko:

 

I don't like that.

 

There is so much stuff in the box, that noone needs 2 of. I don't even bother selling that stuff on eBay, because it won't be bought. Honestly, who needs a second Fenn? Or a second copy of anything that's campaign only? That stuff goes straight to the trash can.

 

When (If) the Royal Guard Figure Pack finally arrives, I will be even more frustrated about spending that much money on core sets ...

Edited by DerBaer

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Before people going bonkers and ordering lots of core games, then I would advice waiting a bit and see how the new rule changes the game. As well as all the new miniatures and command cards that is being released. Perhaps the 4x4 list won't be as viable as it used to be ;)

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I want to use the 4x4 an a tournament this saturday. I'm not less frustrated by the fact, that I need 3 more core sets for just one day! 

And I need it just for the 3 regular Royal Guard Deployment Cards. I have the figures and everything else I need.

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I've just ordered core sets 2 - 4. It was especially frustrating, because I've already bought several units on eBay. It just seems that noone is selling those regular Royal Guards ...

 

:wacko:

 

I don't like that.

 

There is so much stuff in the box, that noone needs 2 of. I don't even bother selling that stuff on eBay, because it won't be bought. Honestly, who needs a second Fenn? Or a second copy of anything that's campaign only? That stuff goes straight to the trash can.

 

I've been lurking this forum for some time now. But now I had to write.

 

Do you really want to throw away more than one Core Set which will be lacking only 1 card? Because if you do and live in the EU sent me a PN. I am sure we will find a price which makes both of us happy...

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Don't have friends that can help? We got Nordics coming up and we are helping each other with cards :) As a rebel player I help my buddy with imperial cards.

As you can see on my earlier replies I do think that the boxes are a bit short on normal cards in certain situation :)

Edited by jespernohr

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The other point that hasn't really been made is that the box sets come with all the components that the rebel units require and their generics are sold in allay packs. As more and more products are released the rebels become the significantly cheaper faction to play. As you will never be required to purchase multiple boxes, and the allay packs are reasonably priced.

 

In the current meta the best imperial list, 4x4 is $400.00 while Rebel blast with 4 saboteurs is $152.00. 

Edited by Tromsicle

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It's a way to make money. It is a company designed for profit after all. My play group has 7 people that play the IA campaign. I and another guy have the game. I was the Imps player for the campaign while the other 6 peeps rotated as they could be there to play, including the other guy with the game. We're the only ones buying anything as far as I know, the rest of the group hasn't offered to offset costs but I'm not complaining.

I think the group enjoys the campaign and as there's only 2 complete game sets(including current packs and maybe TS and wave 2 by the end of the month) across the 7 players, kinda hard to even try skirmish. Unless people want to set up to use and stick with either the Rebels or the Imps while the other player uses the other side.

When I first saw the game, I saw the campaign 1st then skirmish. After getting the game, I realized skirmish meant having other people buying the game and at $100, was probably not going to happen, especially after years of buying X-wing. That pretty much cemented campaign mode and that only 1 copy was going to be needed in my mind. I bought the game and conned peeps into playing.

I do think FFG could do a better job on giving people deployment cards, as a campaigner, the one that sticks out to me is IG-88. His mission has 2-3 IG-88 colones running around missing one of his core abilities. Problem is that it's confusing to track them as you play but if FFG had included his clones as deployment cards, even if they were useable in just that mission, it would have helped.

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It's a way to make money. It is a company designed for profit after all. My play group has 7 people that play the IA campaign. I and another guy have the game. I was the Imps player for the campaign while the other 6 peeps rotated as they could be there to play, including the other guy with the game. We're the only ones buying anything as far as I know, the rest of the group hasn't offered to offset costs but I'm not complaining.

I think the group enjoys the campaign and as there's only 2 complete game sets(including current packs and maybe TS and wave 2 by the end of the month) across the 7 players, kinda hard to even try skirmish. Unless people want to set up to use and stick with either the Rebels or the Imps while the other player uses the other side.

When I first saw the game, I saw the campaign 1st then skirmish. After getting the game, I realized skirmish meant having other people buying the game and at $100, was probably not going to happen, especially after years of buying X-wing. That pretty much cemented campaign mode and that only 1 copy was going to be needed in my mind. I bought the game and conned peeps into playing.

I do think FFG could do a better job on giving people deployment cards, as a campaigner, the one that sticks out to me is IG-88. His mission has 2-3 IG-88 colones running around missing one of his core abilities. Problem is that it's confusing to track them as you play but if FFG had included his clones as deployment cards, even if they were useable in just that mission, it would have helped.

 

I'm pretty much exactly in this boat too. My group of friends will not shell out for a Core+Waves to join in with Skirmish, so Campaign is all I'm going to do.

I totally sympathise with those of you who want to do Skirmish. It can get very expensive if you want to be competitive.

But so are most other games. Wanna be competitive in Magic TG? Shell out hundreds if not thousands on latest expansions or old legacy cards. (format depending)

 

FFG are a for profit organization, and if they don't make sure the game makes money they'll stop making it. And we'll all be **** out a luck.

 

I hope the singles market becomes stronger, as I'd hate for people to lose interest in this great game.

But one core set is essentially for Campaign first, and casual Skirmish second.

Competetive Skirmish seems an afterthought from FFG, just take the Skirmish Map building issues as an example.

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Buying 4 core sets also allows, 4 regular Nexu, Trandoshans, the 2nd elite probe droid, officer, AT-ST etc etc

 

But I still think it's crazy that people are willing to buy 4 cores. 

You got all the figures you need from 2 core sets, core set 3 and 4 are just bought for the cards ...

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Who said they're doing this to be sly?

 

I'm saying there are three markets here.

 

Campaign

 

Casual Skirmish

 

Competitive Skirmish

 

The Core and Waves cater to the first two pretty easily.

 

The lack of printed maps and Core figures available in Waves indicates to me that Competitive is an afterthought.

 

If you want to be Competitive, spending money on Cores seems to be the only way forward. (apart from finding singles being sold)

 

 

What people complaining about the figure/deployment card availability seem to be saying is this;

 

"I want to be competitive, and to play the strongest team around I need 4 core sets." (edit: I now realize it's about the deployment cards being a component limitation)

 

Which comes across as really competitive people complaining that they need to spend more money to win than say, someone just playing for fun.

 

Which is how these type of games have always worked. The ones willing to spend the most money get the "super rares" or "multiple figures/cards" and have a wider selection pool to build from.

Edited by Majushi

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Buying 4 core sets also allows, 4 regular Nexu, Trandoshans, the 2nd elite probe droid, officer, AT-ST etc etc

 

But I still think it's crazy that people are willing to buy 4 cores. 

You got all the figures you need from 2 core sets, core set 3 and 4 are just bought for the cards ...

 

So, will Promo Deployment Cards slowly solve the issue of having to buy the 3rd and 4th core sets?

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OK, let me put it another way:

 

I have 6 units of Trandoshans, 2 elite cards, 4 regular cards, 12 figures. I wanted to have the cards to be able to play any possible combination of Trandoshans.

At least 2 of the figures will NEVER be used (4 x regular Trandoshans + 2 elite Trandoshans = 48 Points)

 

What do I do with those figures? Without the cards, I can't sell them. I have no use for them. Is FFG aware of the fact, that these will find a place in my trash can?

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Who said they're doing this to be sly?

 

I'm saying it. The sly part is forcing us to buy multiple copies and/or extra A&V packs JUST for a few cards and a ton of extra useless components to be able to use figures we've ALREADY bought. Twin Shadows comes with 2 Heavy Stormtrooper groups. Cool, let's make a list using 2 regular.. nope, got to buy another copy just for the card, but now I have even more figures I don't have cards for...

 

I'm saying there are three markets here.

Campaign

Casual Skirmish

Competitive Skirmish

The Core and Waves cater to the first two pretty easily.

The lack of printed maps and Core figures available in Waves indicates to me that Competitive is an afterthought.

If you want to be Competitive, spending money on Cores seems to be the only way forward. (apart from finding singles being sold)

And all three markets would be perfectly happy if they've just included those few missing cards. Besides, it's not just the super competitive people who finds this frustrating. Some of us like to have all the options available when building a list even for a casual play. Some of us are OCD and find the lack of cards disturbing. And about those singles, good luck. I've been watching Team Covenant's regular Royal Guard single for months now, out of stock. Sometimes it pops up in eBay, like there's one now. Currently going for $33 + shipping.

This is just.. so frustrating.

Maybe you're right that the Skirmish was an afterthought and maybe they didn't quite realize what a headache those missing cards might cause. Maybe they're not intentionally sly. I'd like to believe that because I love FFG and their people are genuinely excited about their games and their customers etc. The core and the Twin Shadows are too late to fix, but Return to Hoth is still in development. Maybe they could fix this situation from that expansion onwards.

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I totally get what you're saying about wanting enough components to "complete" a collection. I.e. enough to have every option available to you.

 

I doubt FFG have been intentionally sly here. I'm not even sure they foresaw people wanting to buy multiple cores... (beyond 2 max. I certainly don't see the appeal personally)

 

It would be nice to see some official response on this matter. Are FFG aware of the issue? Will they be offering any solution to the playerbase?

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