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johnnyper

What Roles do we still need?

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Armchair Proxy: you can go I'll stay behind and recoup group XP at the end! LMFAO

 

in a sense the game already has these, as no role is useful all of the time, and some are useless a large portion of the time. having both limited in combat and non-combat uses.

Edited by BillMcDonagh

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my ideas regarding roles:

 

8) If anything, they're missing an elite advance for assassin orders (they keep many secret skills and gear that wouldn't make sense in the open)

 

How would an inquisitorial acolyte have the time to join a secret assassin order?

 

The Ascension assassin options were completely ridiculous, from a fluff perspective. I hope they keep things a bit more low-key with DH2.

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For a tank type role look at the bodyguard from acension. And this is DH if he has a powerful enough weapon he is a threat. To that end I would also like to see it incoperate a heavy weapons component. Making him a true tank...

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Hey Flailbot - consider this...

 

Perhaps the assassin order chooses the acolyte - rather than the other way around?

 

But but if needed - try seeding in a clue like a special trapping on a memeber's person - character then goes "hey nice dagger" which is then replied by "the crow flies right only at night" - sort of like "spy-lingo" - player then rolls some sort of Knowledge Test for the organization/group - if successful he knows what to say to get his foot in the door.

 

This is again only one approach - keep in mind like my prior first suggestion - a good example being the mob (like Donnie Brasco; he goes into their hangout as a jewel fence/thief aka a man who can make them money - and thus he is invited into their circle)...

 

Hope this Helps

 

Stay GAMING

Morbid

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generally the idea is not for the bodyguard to charge forward and play "RPG tank" but rather to sit next to and protect those who are more vulnerable. Basically using superior survivability and a bit of training to shield others rather than the arbitrary "agro tank" Although someone could try to use intimidate for that, I'm more saying it would be a role ability that you can use reactions to shield nearby allies rather than yourself.

 

So something like: When an ally within x meters is hit by an attack, but before they use their reaction, you may use a reaction to make an evasion roll. For every degree of success one of the hits that would have hit your ally hits you instead. If there are still hits that will hit your ally, said ally may then make their own evasion roll as normal against the remaining hits.

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The only problem I see with "Tanking" in games like Dark Heresy or Only War is that everyone is a normal human being, and wounds don't last forever... Everyone is pretty squishy. Even with a heap of toughness and as many wounds as you can take, you still aren't going to have more than 25. Armor can be shredded through, and TB only does so much. While you may be able to withstand a few more autogun blasts than the Mystic, you won't be able to reliably soak all damage without killing yourself. 

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This game isn't about real life, and generally you'd want the XP you spend to be worth something - which becoming the squad whipping boy for an encounter or two before your character dies - probably wouldn't qualify. 

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my ideas regarding roles:

 

1) Ace really needs to benefit operate, tech use, and similar skills, otherwise it will feel useless a lot of the time.

2) There still is no strong defensive role, which currently requires manipulating backgrounds and home worlds to get defense, willpower, and toughness together.

3) building a role around influence does not sound like a good starting role, if anything, it would be some sort of elite advance. That and influence rules are just really vague to begin with.

4) some of the ideas mentioned above just seem to be because there is a lack of non-combat talents, based on the transition from only war, it might be better to just add more talents, rather than make a whole new role as the desperado, seeker, and heirophant all have their own spin on diplomacy and playing the party face, unless im missing something.

5) I still have no idea what the point of the penitent role is, as its aptitudes don't mesh at all.

6) still think the surgeon would have been better served with something other than strength, I think they just wanted to stick strength on another role and ran out of ideas. 

7) They could make Magos and Politician elite advances, but they're mostly from a lack of noncombat talents in the book.

8) If anything, they're missing an elite advance for assassin orders (they keep many secret skills and gear that wouldn't make sense in the open)

1) agreed. I suspect it will have the agility, tech and fieldcraft aptitudes. Hopefully its background will apply to more than operate tests.

2) Could be nice to see another role with defense. Some people have brought up Crusader from DH1 Ascension, I think Crusader is actually a pretty good candidate for another elite advance.

3) My idea for the diplomat/politician was more of a social and knowledge character. The special ability giving peer affects both influence and fellowship so the role would be capable of both. Others emphasized the influence aspect more than I originally thought about.

4) desperado and hierophant are combat social characters one being melee and the other ranged. Seeker is not the best for knowledge, more a social with other investigation type stuff. The diplomat is for making a politician or business man, perhaps Lex Luther like. Knowledgable and charismatic but doesn't do its own dirty work much.

5) Its a bit odd but at least toughness, fieldcraft and offence seems to line up with a wandering repentant pilgrim type character. I don't get why it has intelligence though.

6) Completely agree. Willpower would have made far more sense since chirurgeons are meant to be interrogators on top of medics and willpower is the interrogation stat. Perception would have also made more sense.

7) I don't really see what magos would add and I think politician as an elite advance would be different enough from the Inquisitor elite advance.

8) I could see them throwing at least one or two of the assassin temple assassins back in this way.

 

 

Hey Flailbot - consider this...

 

Perhaps the assassin order chooses the acolyte - rather than the other way around?

 

But but if needed - try seeding in a clue like a special trapping on a memeber's person - character then goes "hey nice dagger" which is then replied by "the crow flies right only at night" - sort of like "spy-lingo" - player then rolls some sort of Knowledge Test for the organization/group - if successful he knows what to say to get his foot in the door.

 

This is again only one approach - keep in mind like my prior first suggestion - a good example being the mob (like Donnie Brasco; he goes into their hangout as a jewel fence/thief aka a man who can make them money - and thus he is invited into their circle)...

 

Hope this Helps

 

Stay GAMING

Morbid

I think the problem is the amount of time that the PC would have to be gone, rather than how they got picked. The temple assassins all receive pretty significant enhancements, nearly on the level of space marines. That and any psychological conditioning would take time and I believe is primarily done on Terra. 

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This game isn't about real life, and generally you'd want the XP you spend to be worth something - which becoming the squad whipping boy for an encounter or two before your character dies - probably wouldn't qualify. 

 

This game is about what you want to give it. In my games, I've had players that played bodyguard by the book. They had a very enjoyable experience. If the bodyguard does his job right, he ain't supposed to put himself betwee the protégé and the attack most of the time. 

 

It's like everything, play right, those situations won't happen. It is sure that acting bad and playing bad will be a bad experience. That's why you always have, as GM and players, the option to play well. 

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This game isn't about real life, and generally you'd want the XP you spend to be worth something - which becoming the squad whipping boy for an encounter or two before your character dies - probably wouldn't qualify. 

 

This game is about what you want to give it. In my games, I've had players that played bodyguard by the book. They had a very enjoyable experience. If the bodyguard does his job right, he ain't supposed to put himself betwee the protégé and the attack most of the time. 

 

It's like everything, play right, those situations won't happen. It is sure that acting bad and playing bad will be a bad experience. That's why you always have, as GM and players, the option to play well. 

 

 

Yeah, when i said bodyguard, i don't mean standing in the way of bullets, i mean someone who can use his reactions to move people out of the way or parry a blow aimed at someone else.  Aptitudes would be along the lines of defense, toughness, willpower, although not sure of the rest.

Edited by BillMcDonagh

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Hey Flailbot - consider this...

 

Perhaps the assassin order chooses the acolyte - rather than the other way around?

 

But but if needed - try seeding in a clue like a special trapping on a memeber's person - character then goes "hey nice dagger" which is then replied by "the crow flies right only at night" - sort of like "spy-lingo" - player then rolls some sort of Knowledge Test for the organization/group - if successful he knows what to say to get his foot in the door.

 

This is again only one approach - keep in mind like my prior first suggestion - a good example being the mob (like Donnie Brasco; he goes into their hangout as a jewel fence/thief aka a man who can make them money - and thus he is invited into their circle)...

 

Hope this Helps

 

Stay GAMING

Morbid

I think the problem is the amount of time that the PC would have to be gone, rather than how they got picked. The temple assassins all receive pretty significant enhancements, nearly on the level of space marines. That and any psychological conditioning would take time and I believe is primarily done on Terra. 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah this is basically my issue with it. You can join an assassins group or something, although, even that is pushing it becuase your job is inquisitorial acolyte, not assassin. You just have murder-skills.

The Temple Assassins are trained from birth, so that's completely ridiculous. I guess you could receive contracts based on when you are as potential side-jobs from a guild, but I expect you'd get the old "executed for wasting Imperial Resources" thing, if anyone noticed. In this case, you are the imperial resource and you're wasting your time on other things.

 

If you've got downtime on a planet or need to establish deep cover, I can totally see acolytes joining various local organization temporarily. However, that's really different from some wacky elite advance assassin thing with special abilities.

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Yeah this is basically my issue with it. You can join an assassins group or something, although, even that is pushing it becuase your job is inquisitorial acolyte, not assassin. You just have murder-skills.

The Temple Assassins are trained from birth, so that's completely ridiculous. I guess you could receive contracts based on when you are as potential side-jobs from a guild, but I expect you'd get the old "executed for wasting Imperial Resources" thing, if anyone noticed. In this case, you are the imperial resource and you're wasting your time on other things.

 

If you've got downtime on a planet or need to establish deep cover, I can totally see acolytes joining various local organization temporarily. However, that's really different from some wacky elite advance assassin thing with special abilities.

 

 

Im just trying to come up with ideas for new sets of abilities and equipment that could be linked together to create a unique advance, and something more interesting than the "inquisitor's" "you take every skill ever and have slightly better fate point usage)

 

Also, most elite advances require between mission downtime to make sense, as it requires outside training and equipment. Its not something you randomly decide halfway through. Minus the untouchable, which really you shouldn't be taking outside of character creation. The psycher has his own consequences, mainly massive corruption gain and plot issues of becoming an unsanctioned psycher through sorcery or forbidden lore.

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Yeah this is basically my issue with it. You can join an assassins group or something, although, even that is pushing it becuase your job is inquisitorial acolyte, not assassin. You just have murder-skills.

The Temple Assassins are trained from birth, so that's completely ridiculous. I guess you could receive contracts based on when you are as potential side-jobs from a guild, but I expect you'd get the old "executed for wasting Imperial Resources" thing, if anyone noticed. In this case, you are the imperial resource and you're wasting your time on other things.

 

If you've got downtime on a planet or need to establish deep cover, I can totally see acolytes joining various local organization temporarily. However, that's really different from some wacky elite advance assassin thing with special abilities.

 

 

Im just trying to come up with ideas for new sets of abilities and equipment that could be linked together to create a unique advance, and something more interesting than the "inquisitor's" "you take every skill ever and have slightly better fate point usage)

 

Also, most elite advances require between mission downtime to make sense, as it requires outside training and equipment. Its not something you randomly decide halfway through. Minus the untouchable, which really you shouldn't be taking outside of character creation. The psycher has his own consequences, mainly massive corruption gain and plot issues of becoming an unsanctioned psycher through sorcery or forbidden lore.

 

 

IMHO, elite advances should represent a focus on a subset of the acolyte's abilities. I have no problem with them involving additional training and special abilities. I only have issues where they create situations where the acolyte is beholden to other organizations.

 

At character creation, it's okay. An inquisitor pulls a tech-priest for his crew, but doesn't except him to abandon all his connections and motivations that the AdMech instilled in him. Same with the Sororitas.

 

However, later, I don't see an inquisitor being okay with his acolyte establishing a (potentially disruptive) new loyalty to a new organization.

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However, later, I don't see an inquisitor being okay with his acolyte establishing a (potentially disruptive) new loyalty to a new organization

 

Depends on the organisation and the links the inquisitor may have with it. If he as such things as good links with the officio assassinorum, and he is ready to risk a lot to get his hands on a specialist assassin of such grade, why not.

 

But this should be very rare, but hey, your party of acolyte is THE party of acolytes!

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However, later, I don't see an inquisitor being okay with his acolyte establishing a (potentially disruptive) new loyalty to a new organization.

 

Why not? Having acolytes Infiltrate other imperial organizations increases his influence on those groups and gives him more imperial resources to use as his eyes and ears. Largely seems like a win win as long as the acolyte remembers his priorities and loyalties if ever called upon to choose.

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