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fog1234

Enemy Without Expansion

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The interesting thing about "Imperial Space" is that it isn't contiguous. While easier to present on a map, the empty space between planets and warp routes isn't necessarily empty - it may contain whole alien empires that the Imperium has no way of reaching, as there aren't stable warp routes to those stars. It is better to think of the territory the Imperium controls as almost a rail network. You know of and can visit any of the cities connected by rail, but there could be whole countries you just pass through you'd never know about. 

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Looking forward to learning more about the Inquisitorial side of the Ordo Xenos. Often we just hear about the Deathwatch blasting away all the aliens.

 

I really hope Enemies Within isn't just another Deathwatch book; if I wanted to play Space Marines or watch Space Marines winning everything forever, I'd go read a book or play a 40k computer game. I don't mind a mention, but if there's any hint of Space Marine backgrounds/homeworlds/roles/elite advances I'll be most disappointed. For me, the Astartes belong firmly in the NPC Deus Ex Machina category, not in the hands of PC's.

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Looking forward to learning more about the Inquisitorial side of the Ordo Xenos. Often we just hear about the Deathwatch blasting away all the aliens.

 

I really hope Enemies Within isn't just another Deathwatch book; if I wanted to play Space Marines or watch Space Marines winning everything forever, I'd go read a book or play a 40k computer game. I don't mind a mention, but if there's any hint of Space Marine backgrounds/homeworlds/roles/elite advances I'll be most disappointed. For me, the Astartes belong firmly in the NPC Deus Ex Machina category, not in the hands of PC's.

 

 

At most I'd expect a few blurbs on the Deathwatch and a profile for a Deathwatch Dreadnought reinforcement character (fits in with the Penitent Engine from the last book). I suspect the majority of player options will be firmly in the human spectrum of things. I'd be surprised if we even get options for alien PCs (outside of reinforcement characters).

Edited by Rationalinsanity

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I really hope Enemies Within isn't just another Deathwatch book; if I wanted to play Space Marines or watch Space Marines winning everything forever, I'd go read a book or play a 40k computer game. I don't mind a mention, but if there's any hint of Space Marine backgrounds/homeworlds/roles/elite advances I'll be most disappointed. For me, the Astartes belong firmly in the NPC Deus Ex Machina category, not in the hands of PC's.

 

Ehh... you could say the same about Battle Sisters. Ultimately, I think it all depends on just how they would be introduced. How much they'd "fit in" stands and falls with their mechanics, and thus how they feel in a direct comparison to the other characters when it comes to strengths and weaknesses.

 

Mind you, Games Workshop originally invented the Deathwatch just because they wanted to see Space Marines as members of an Inquisitor's warband, operating alongside other "ordinary" human agents. The Deathwatch flat-out did not exist before their own d100 Inquisitor game.

 

I just fear that FFG would make the same mistake as in their Daemon Hammer splatbook, which was to throw a truncated version of their Deathwatch rules into a Dark Heresy game and call it a day, regardless of the obvious balancing issues. On the other hand ... they've already positively surprised me with the Sororitas in Enemies Within in comparison to Blood of Martyrs, so ... who knows?

Edited by Lynata

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A truncated version of the Deathwatch rules for building reinforcement characters could work.

 

As could rules for bringing in an entire reinforcement squad as a single package (eg calling in a Deathwatch kill team), instead of having each reinforcement character brought in separately. Make it clear that they operate as a team.

 

Talk about the downsides to bringing them along for the investigation phase of a mission beyond just the effects on the subtly score.

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A truncated version of the Deathwatch rules for building reinforcement characters could work.

 

Or perhaps simply use Dark Heresy rules to build a Dark Heresy Space Marine suitable for a Dark Heresy game? ;)

 

Except that Space Marines have access to stuff that humans don't get. Though that means that the only rules needed are a few talents and traits, and a slightly larger section for Space Marine gear. Though just saying "use the Deathwatch books if you want something other than these existing statblocks" would be sufficient.

 

The hardest part for FFG to write would be the explanation of how having a Space Marine in the warband will affect investigations. It's also the most important part. 

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Except that Space Marines have access to stuff that humans don't get.

 

Yeah, for whatever reason. They don't in GW's Inquisitor (or the tabletop books), and maybe that's why they are less of a problem there -- barring the weird auto-heals for all characters which is easily houseruled, though.

 

They only get better stuff here because Dark Heresy combat rules (read: TB skin armour) are pushing their survivability so much that engagements between SM and CSM would be ridiculously drawn out, but since this is a central element for the Deathwatch RPG ... they started getting better wargear once they started working on that game line.

 

Check the "Angelus bolt carbine" in DH1's Inquisitor's Handbook or the stats for Brother Sergeant Agamorr's wargear in DH1's Purge the Unclean for a pre-Deathwatch comparison. ;)

 

Bottom line: fix their TB invul, and you no longer need them to have OP gear. Or actually ... you don't even have to fix it, since SM vs CSM isn't a theme in Dark Heresy like it is in the Deathwatch RPG. Awkward moments are less likely to occur by default.

 

But fixing it would probably be better to prevent situations like the Dark Eldar NPCs in Purge the Unclean from having no chance to wound the Space Marine*

 

*: now you know where Horde rules are coming from, by the way. This stuff was discussed on the old forum, and an early prototype of the Horde rules you see in the books now was one of the various suggestions tossed around by other players to sort of solve precisely this problem.

 

The hardest part for FFG to write would be the explanation of how having a Space Marine in the warband will affect investigations. It's also the most important part. 

 

Well, from a personality standpoint, we already have Adepta Sororitas affecting investigations, and from a visual standpoint, we have mutants. In the end, Space Marines are just quasi-mutants with a Sororitas-like personality, so ...

Edited by Lynata

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I think from memory they have rules for using Deathwatch (as well as Only War, Rogue Trader and even Black Crusade) characters as re-inforcement characters in the main rulebook.

 

While you might have trouble explaining how a favourite Deathwatch Space Marine got all the way from the Jericho Reach to the Askellon Sector you could use those rules to make yourself a reinforcement character if you really wanted.

 

I wouldn't really be interested in having Deathwatch rules put into Dark Heresy as if I'm interested they are already available and they already have a Deathwatch Space Marine reinforcement character in the main rulebook.

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While you might have trouble explaining how a favourite Deathwatch Space Marine got all the way from the Jericho Reach to the Askellon Sector

Here's what I'd do if that was a problem: That Deathwatch Space Marine was never in the Jericho Reach. The DW game you played him in isn't canon as far as this game is concerned. Your Space Marine served Deathwatch somewhere else in the galaxy. Somewhere close enough that he is able to easily reach the Askellon Sector. If he fought any foes relevant to the DH game in the DW game, then his backstory for this game says that he fought that foe on a closer world. So use a different name if you bring it up. As for the foes he fought that aren't relevant to the DH game, remember that DW Space Marines don't like to talk about what they did while in Deathwatch, not even with their own chapter. Since he won't talk about them, it doesn't really matter what he fought, does it ?

 

More likely is that I'd just say that he is here now. Unless the player can give me a reason why how he got here matters, I won't even try to explain it.

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My group was just discussing this very issue in our DW & DH campaigns.  However with the Ark of Lost Souls or any space hulk, it could appear out of the warp basically anywhere at theoretically any time, correct?  So that was the basis of how our DW characters might appear as a reinforcement squad for our warband.

 

~ alemander

Edited by alemander

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Nice to see that this is already on the boat. We might have it late October or early November at this rate.

 

 

The speed of things is interesting. It was only added to the upcoming titles a few weeks ago. Heck, it was only moved from 'In Development' to 'At the Printer' on the 26th or 27th. Fingers crossed for October!

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Given that the Imperial Guard is available as background in the core rulebook, I'd say it would make sense. Notably, "Enemies Without" also suggests Xenos, so a Navy character makes particular sense for encounters in or with foes from outer space. :)

Edited by Lynata

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With the Ace being added as a Role, do you think we'll see 'Imperial Navy' as a Background?

 

I hope so!

I can't believe I never even noticed that was absent... Was it in the first edition?

It seems like a cool idea, but I can't really see how it could be made different from standard Void-Born.

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I can't believe I never even noticed that was absent... Was it in the first edition?

It seems like a cool idea, but I can't really see how it could be made different from standard Void-Born.

Voidborn is a homeworld option, Imperial Navy would be a backgrond career like Adeptus Administratum, Mechanicus, Imperial Guard, etc.

 

So you could get cool combinations like:

Voidborn + Imperial Navy + Desperado = Crew member living deep inside a battleship

Highborn + Imperial Navy + Hierophant  = Ship officer or naval liaison

Frontier World + Imperial Navy + Ace = Fighter pilot on the edge of Imperial space

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With the Ace being added as a Role, do you think we'll see 'Imperial Navy' as a Background?

 

I hope so!

I can't believe I never even noticed that was absent... Was it in the first edition?

It seems like a cool idea, but I can't really see how it could be made different from standard Void-Born.

 

'Battlefleet Calixis' was a variant available in Inquisitor's Handbook as a Homeworld. So, yes, sort of.

 

 

Ideas:

 

Void Born > Imperial Navy > Ace - Fighter Ace!

Hive World > Imperial Navy > Chirurgeon - Ship's Doctor

Highborn > Imperial Navy > Heirophant - Bridge Officer

Feral World > Imperial Navy > Warrior - Press-ganged armsman

Forge World > Imperal Navy > Seeker - Sensor-suite Operator

Edited by bluntpencil2001

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The Scholae -- at least how they were described in GW's own material -- are as much isolated from the populace of the world they are situated on as a Sororitas convent, to prevent the students from being "tainted" by native ideas, and to better facilitate pressing them into the very same Imperial mould regardless of the compound's location.

 

For the time being, I'd probably suggest Shrine World, but I believe it really would have deserved its own option. As theorised here, maybe it's just not available yet because it's difficult to decide what effects to assign, for they'd have to be useful for civilian as well as warlike characters, and ideally also come with an appropriate drawback reflecting the progena's narrowminded indoctrination. However, unlike with DH1, the DH2 "template" for Homeworlds is fairly streamlined in that it allows only for a single perk.

 

Which I actually like -- it just doesn't work as nicely here as it does for the other Homeworlds. :(

Edited by Lynata

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Maybe they will add the schola progenium with a supplement. It was introduced in DH1 in the inquistor's handbook.

 

I liked the background a lot as it gave quite a deep and good impression on how the Imperium works. I liked the mind cleansed one, too. The later might work quite nicely with the penitent role...^^

Edited by Ripplo

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