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Arrakus

HOB + Sniper Shot

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How far could a player shoot when using a HOB at extreme range with 2 ranks of sniper shot? (Extreme ++?)

If you allowed it, how would you rule it? Would a telescopic lens still apply at that range?

We currently have a player in our group that is running into this problem.

Thanks!

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We started by brainstorming what kind of shot would deserve 6 purples. And the only thing we could agree on was something like the 2-3 mile snipershot. But then someone argued that in SW universe energy projectiles should be able to shoot farther than that. By this point the conversation spilled out of control. Hence my posting. I wanted to get other people's opinion.

The player has invested heavily in being hit things before people can see them. 5 agility, 3 ranks gunnery & ranged heavy, 2 ranks sniper shot, 2 ranks in true aim, telescopic lens, and the accu-strike mod for another rank in true aim.

Thoughts?

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I have a player that wants to do something similar.  I haven't totally decided what to do.  I think I will extend range from extreme personal to close vehicular, and possibly short or medium. I will be a stickler for line of sight, and especially at vehicular scale he will need to have some means of spotting the target (and a scope probably wont be enough, especially if shooting a man sized target).  The difficulty upgrade should be pretty harsh.  Extending from extreme to close would be 4 purple plus a red.  I would probably rule the scope allows the shot to be taken without penalty (and allow aim).  If no scope I would add 2 black (and no aiming).  If you had a forward spotter, I would allow the second shot to benefit from the aim maneuver, if both the spotter took a maneuver to guide the shot.  Going to short would be ridiculous,  4 purple and 2 red, plus needing a forward spotter to try at all (unless shooting at a large target).

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With energy-based weapons, atmosphere bleeds the energy and extremely long shots in an atmosphere would lose significant potency.  Not to mention the little issue with actual line of sight to the target.  With that many upgrades and skills, I'd effectively say that if he can see it, he can take a shot at it and probably hit it.  However, there are going to be significant feasibility constraints surrounding getting that shot.  The entire first half of the movie Shooter is based around finding a place from which someone could make an "impossible" shot.

 

In space, on the other hand, lines of sight are great, there's no atmosphere to degrade the energy, and the only limitation would be sensor range. ;)

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That's why vehicular weapons don't care about range bands; they're either in range or not in range.  If you're trying to shoot somebody from a distant mountain-top or hit something in orbit (or shoot from an orbital platform at another orbital platform) you really need to be using a vehicle-scale weapon, and your sniper-shot talent won't really apply.

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That guy is really gonna hate having a rival sneak up and engage him in melee.  And that should totally happen, because it is the cinematic thing to do, right after he gets off the shot he has built this character to perform.  When he is knocked unconscious, drag him off as a hostage.  Unless for some weird reason the whole party is guarding him (very unsniper like), then he doesn't get to make the shot.  Something always happens to get in the way unless the others go free up the obstacle.  Cinematic.

But to be honest, that guy doesn't sound like a fun guy to have in a party because he isn't wanting to really help out the team... could be wrong, but if all he wants is sniper shots, he shouldn't get much playtime in most scenarios.... IMHO of course...

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We started by brainstorming what kind of shot would deserve 6 purples. And the only thing we could agree on was something like the 2-3 mile snipershot. But then someone argued that in SW universe energy projectiles should be able to shoot farther than that. By this point the conversation spilled out of control. Hence my posting. I wanted to get other people's opinion.

The player has invested heavily in being hit things before people can see them. 5 agility, 3 ranks gunnery & ranged heavy, 2 ranks sniper shot, 2 ranks in true aim, telescopic lens, and the accu-strike mod for another rank in true aim.

Thoughts?

 

Give him a compound bow and put his talents to good use. 

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If blasters don't have "drop" due to gravity, doesn't that mean that shots actually go "up" the farther away you shoot, since the curvature of the planet makes the shot appear to go "up"?

Of course, on earth, this might not matter at 2-3 kilometers.
But on a planet the size of the moon, it might.

It also puts a serious cramper on using blaster weapons as indirect artillery.

I haven't watched the Clone Wars series much, but do they ever use blaster cannons for indirect artillery fire?
Because if they do, that would indicate that gravity does have an effect on even blaster shots.

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I've found that ALL games get long-range shooting wrong.  Just this year (2017) a Canadian sniper was able to make a kill shot at a mind-blowing 3540m (that's 2.2 miles!) shattering the old record by over 1,000m!  So what could a highly trained Star Wars sniper do with a supped up sniper blaster?  As long as there's line of sight is there really a range limit?  Especially if the GM allows the sniper to spend a Destiny Point to make an impossible shot.

To put it in perspective an average sized man looks like one of those little plastic green army men at 1000 yards.

Star Wars in any of the "rules" I've come across don't really explain why blasters have basically very short range.  I mean they call blaster longarms, blaster rifles, even though there's no rifling in the barrel to make it a rifle!  I'm not sure why they think the barrel length of a blaster would change it's accuracy either since there's no rifling to being with.

My friends keep telling me "it's just a game" so my advice is do whatever the group thinks is the best outcome for the scene's narrative.  With the proper conditions maybe 15 miles can be attained.

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The reason is simple. Without the right scope, it's the difficulty to target someone increases the farther away he is from the shooter because he's harder to see the farther he is. Not only that, but the farther the shot has to travel, the more exaggerated minor errors in angle become. If you're off by 1 or 2 degrees, that isn't much at close range, but at 1000m or more, that can mean the difference between hitting and missing by several meters. 

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On 8/6/2015 at 7:36 PM, Arrakus said:

We started by brainstorming what kind of shot would deserve 6 purples. And the only thing we could agree on was something like the 2-3 mile snipershot. But then someone argued that in SW universe energy projectiles should be able to shoot farther than that. By this point the conversation spilled out of control. Hence my posting. I wanted to get other people's opinion.

The player has invested heavily in being hit things before people can see them. 5 agility, 3 ranks gunnery & ranged heavy, 2 ranks sniper shot, 2 ranks in true aim, telescopic lens, and the accu-strike mod for another rank in true aim.

Thoughts?

I think a top rule of GM'ing should be to always let players try what they want their players to do.  He/She didn't make a sniper just to have the GM say he/she can't take the shot. You (the GM) want the player to feel challenged.  Habitually give him those "routine" hard shots and then throw in an impossible one here and there.  And, yes, there is a point at which a character can cross-spec so much that the dice become ridiculous (6 yellows), but if that's what they enjoy then let them do it. They like bragging on message boards about their 6-Yellow sniper.   

I've seen plenty of posts in the thread, and they have several good ideas.  Line of Sight: that's a biggie.  You can't sit in one city and shoot another person in another city a mile away.  I mean, they'd have to be out in the open with no trees, etc...  EVERYTHING would have to be clear.  That's so far that they can't hear you yell at them.  Into extreme distance, I wouldn't go with Reds, but rather, lots of Setback Dice (Wind x3, gravity, earth curvature, etc... or whatever's agreeable).  For things like shooting through a window at such distance, have them flip a DP and add more SB dice to try.  You can always add a Red die as such distance since the smallest mistake can be a large error on the other end (where you can hit random things and people).  

I would think that telescopic scopes even have a range, even if it's not listed.  At a certain range, you can't even SEE the target even with a scope.  You just can't look through a scope and see anything you want.  You can argue either way whether projectiles or blasters do or don't defy gravity.  If it has matter, then gravity affects it in some way. 

Again, let them try.  Rather, give them opportunities.  Build them into the game.  Of course, at that distance, you just can't casually KNOW that someone is even there!  You'd have to go up close, see them, and then back up to target them at that range.  One post mentioned a spotter.  Good idea.  Let them try, but dictate the conditions.  But at some point, shooting UP would just have an impossible amount of Setback dice, perhaps even reduce range bands.

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On 12/4/2017 at 3:33 AM, BrotherAndytheSage said:

I've found that ALL games get long-range shooting wrong.  Just this year (2017) a Canadian sniper was able to make a kill shot at a mind-blowing 3540m (that's 2.2 miles!) shattering the old record by over 1,000m!  So what could a highly trained Star Wars sniper do with a supped up sniper blaster?  As long as there's line of sight is there really a range limit?  Especially if the GM allows the sniper to spend a Destiny Point to make an impossible shot.

To put it in perspective an average sized man looks like one of those little plastic green army men at 1000 yards.

Star Wars in any of the "rules" I've come across don't really explain why blasters have basically very short range.  I mean they call blaster longarms, blaster rifles, even though there's no rifling in the barrel to make it a rifle!  I'm not sure why they think the barrel length of a blaster would change it's accuracy either since there's no rifling to being with.

My friends keep telling me "it's just a game" so my advice is do whatever the group thinks is the best outcome for the scene's narrative.  With the proper conditions maybe 15 miles can be attained.

Wow, your first post is a 2 year old necro post. 

I love you. "High 5's for everyone!"

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On 12/4/2017 at 2:33 AM, BrotherAndytheSage said:

Star Wars in any of the "rules" I've come across don't really explain why blasters have basically very short range.  I mean they call blaster longarms, blaster rifles, even though there's no rifling in the barrel to make it a rifle!  I'm not sure why they think the barrel length of a blaster would change it's accuracy either since there's no rifling to being with.

 

Barrel length could affect a blaster damage and range easily, depending on how the technology of the blaster works.  If it is similar to a laser, a longer barrel would allow for tighter focusing of the beam, limiting dispersion at distance.  A damaging laser at 15 feet could resemble a tight flashlight beam at 2 miles.  If a blaster incorporates particles in the beam, the barrel could be used to accelerate the particles like a railgun.  In general, just by making a weapon larger, it allows more energy to be directed at a target, regardless of the technology used.

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On 2017-12-04 at 10:33 AM, BrotherAndytheSage said:

I've found that ALL games get long-range shooting wrong.  Just this year (2017) a Canadian sniper was able to make a kill shot at a mind-blowing 3540m (that's 2.2 miles!) shattering the old record by over 1,000m!  So what could a highly trained Star Wars sniper do with a supped up sniper blaster?  As long as there's line of sight is there really a range limit?  Especially if the GM allows the sniper to spend a Destiny Point to make an impossible shot.

To put it in perspective an average sized man looks like one of those little plastic green army men at 1000 yards.

Star Wars in any of the "rules" I've come across don't really explain why blasters have basically very short range.  I mean they call blaster longarms, blaster rifles, even though there's no rifling in the barrel to make it a rifle!  I'm not sure why they think the barrel length of a blaster would change it's accuracy either since there's no rifling to being with.

My friends keep telling me "it's just a game" so my advice is do whatever the group thinks is the best outcome for the scene's narrative.  With the proper conditions maybe 15 miles can be attained.

In Kotor II HK-47 claims to have been able to kneecap someone from 120 km away with a trilight scope. Which is insane, it's a freaking crazy distance. He's a specialist droid though, I'm not sure I would allow a player to try that unless they fulfilled a crazy amount of requirements.

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I like a lot of the ideas that people are throwing out on the variations of allowing this to happen and obstacles to overcome.  I think though, that if the shot is successfully taken, then it should draw a lot of attention, to the point that this famed super-sniper is both feared and more importantly hunted.  This could incorporate bounties and search parties by authorities, citizens snitching on where he is due to the propaganda that he targets innocents at great distances, even a new side adventure with an "Enemy at the Gates" type of counter sniper hunting the player and party.  I say, yes, let him have his shot, but if he gets to using it too often, then his criminal profile skyrockets and "fun" consequences surface.

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On 6.12.2017 at 6:43 PM, Kzloy said:

I like a lot of the ideas that people are throwing out on the variations of allowing this to happen and obstacles to overcome.  I think though, that if the shot is successfully taken, then it should draw a lot of attention, to the point that this famed super-sniper is both feared and more importantly hunted.  This could incorporate bounties and search parties by authorities, citizens snitching on where he is due to the propaganda that he targets innocents at great distances, even a new side adventure with an "Enemy at the Gates" type of counter sniper hunting the player and party.  I say, yes, let him have his shot, but if he gets to using it too often, then his criminal profile skyrockets and "fun" consequences surface.

Fun consequences such as? A sniper who is shooting from 120km does not leave much evidence behind to get identified. ;-)
Though to be honest: Not impressed either, turbolasers do hit soft targets from even longer distances and getting a "clear" shot is trivial, because of ease of repulsor technology and stuff like dropsuits. Your angle of attack is not limited in star wars by sitting on some clocktower and waiting for your target to pass by. 

The bigger issue with such long shots is projectile speed and predicting where your target will be when your shot arrives, but the best sniper rifles in star wars seem to be railguns anyway, reducing the issue by magnitudes compared to modern day sniper rifles. 

Edited by SEApocalypse

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