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Kael

Is F&D canon?

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I ask because Disney said it would decide whats canon. But the book has a big Disney stamp on the back. Kind like a tramp stamp. So this implies the contents are official Disney content. Which means all that wonderful history of the Sith and Jedi made it into the new continuity!

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I ask because Disney said it would decide whats canon. But the book has a big Disney stamp on the back. Kind like a tramp stamp. So this implies the contents are official Disney content. Which means all that wonderful history of the Sith and Jedi made it into the new continuity!

 

Not necessarily. It's going to depend on what parts of the book we're talking about. The Inquisitorious, for example, is now canon, while the various Career paths (because they're game mechanics) aren't necessarily canon. The background information, so long as FFG had it checked through Disney's Lucasfilm Story Group, may well all be canon, but some of it seems apocryphal.

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I think what it suggests is that the broad strokes of that history are there but open to Disney interpretation. Basically, Revan and the Mandalorian Wars existed, but maybe things didn't go exactly as EA games laid it out in their online game. The Je'daii existed and the Jedi and Sith came from that order originally, but maybe, well, no maybe there. There isn't much written about that period so its still got tons story potential anyway.

 

In essence, the pillars of history are still intact, but if Disney decides to do some house decorating, they can paint them up however they want. Kind of like ancient Egypt when the new pharoah would come along and carve his name over the old pharoah's name and lay claim to everything.

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If there is anything that I have learned from being a Star Trek fan since the day I was born (they were actually filming one of my all-time favorite scenes on the day I was born, I kid you not), it is that canon isn't really as set in stone as we tend to believe.

 

The people making the films will pay lip service to it, but are just as likely in the end to change it if it suits their needs. The fans will use it as a tool in their quest to win an argument. And we, the gamers... well... it's your table, do what thou wilt.

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I ask because Disney said it would decide whats canon. But the book has a big Disney stamp on the back. Kind like a tramp stamp. So this implies the contents are official Disney content. Which means all that wonderful history of the Sith and Jedi made it into the new continuity!

 

It's not Canon.

 

The Disney logo is on the back because they're at the top of the Ownership Pyramid.  It's not a "tramp stamp" as much as it is a brand, like a Rancher Baron would brand their cattle.

 

The RPG would never be canon by itself because Disney has no direct control over it.  As a GM, you don't have to submit your NPCs or Plotlines to LFL for approval. Your PCs don't have to submit their dice results to get their effect on the story approved.

 

The RPG is the essence of the Legends banner; it is material to draw from for the creation of adventures and stories. Will some of the items presented by FFG make it into canon lore, like the Imperial Raider corvette?  Perhaps, but until it appears in one of the new movies, TV shows, comic books, or novels since the "reboot", the RPGs are as canon as Thrawn, Mara Jade, Rogue Squadron, Kyp Durron, Vader's Secret Apprentice, Revan, Cade Skywalker, and the Yuuzhan Vong.

 

Which is to say "not outside of Legends".

Edited by DarthGM

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The section about the Sith and Jedi conflict is actually called out as non-canon.  It says something to the effect of "the actual origins of the conflict have yet to be revealed, but here are some popular stories that may or may not be true."

 

So they put in the old Legends information with a sidebar stating that it's not canon anymore.  So, the Je'daii, the Krath, the Sith Empire and all that stuff is there, but it's not gospel truth.

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It's also worth noting that FFG has said they work with Story Group, but my guess is that the latter cares a lot less about canon when it comes to RPGs.

 

And as I've said before, it's painfully easy to ignore the Legends material if you want to and run a strictly canon game. You'll have to do more of the legwork yourself in developing the world, but depending on who you are, that might get you even more excited.

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Lucas Film Licensing (LFL) approves the content but that doesn't mean it's canon - it just means that it meets some level of consistency (and I imagine to prevent out-right contradictions of canon) that LFL wants in official Star Wars products.

 

Although, it's interesting to note that several things that are now cannon - like the ISB - were originally introduced in the WEG RPG.

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well the sith do exist they say the name "sith" in episode 1,2, and 3. so its there, how much of "the sith" is there besides the name and darth sidious, count doku, darth maul, and darth vader, I don't know.  I don't even know if Korriban or the idea of the sith empire is there... was it mentioned in the clone wars?  also wouldn't that mean the galaxy map as we have come to know it is also non cannon? we haven't seen that map plastered on a navicomputer in the movies, for all we know tatooine might be right next door to naboo rather than hundreds of lightyears away.

Edited by oriondean

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well the sith do exist they say the name "sith" in episode 1,2, and 3. so its there, how much of "the sith" is there besides the name and darth sidious, count doku, darth maul, and darth vader, I don't know.  I don't even know if Korriban or the idea of the sith empire is there... was it mentioned in the clone wars?  also wouldn't that mean the galaxy map as we have come to know it is also non cannon? we haven't seen that map plastered on a navicomputer in the movies, for all we know tatooine might be right next door to naboo rather than hundreds of lightyears away.

 

Korriban does appear in the Clone Wars cartoon under the name "Moraband" (apparently George Lucas asked them to change the name for the show despite "Korriban" having been around in the EU for twenty years at that point).

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Come to think of it, running a true cannon game is impossible for FaD. Unless you base it after Return. That said, you might want to pay cannon a little lip service but very little else....

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Come to think of it, running a true cannon game is impossible for FaD. Unless you base it after Return. That said, you might want to pay cannon a little lip service but very little else....

Getting technical, both the FaD beta and the core bring out that you are not playing Jedi.

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Not sure how pertinent this is to the topic at hand, but,

 

Aspyr in partnership with Disney Interactive and LucasArts is proud to announce STAR WARS™ Knights of the Old Republic™ II - The Sith Lords™ is now available on Mac and LInux, along with a massive update to all 3 platforms.

New features include:

  • 37 achievements to be earned through gameplay
  • Steam Cloud saves
  • Native widescreen resolution support
  • Resolution support up to 4K and 5K
  • Support for controllers, including Xbox 360, Xbox One, Playstation
  • 3, and Playstation 4, along with several others (check the system requirements for details)
  • Steam Workshop support! We proudly worked with the Restored Content Mod Team to have their famous TSLRCM up on launch day

Oh...and we added a "Force Speed Effects" option in the menu ;)

 

 

So, if Disney is investing anything at all in this I'm gonna guess its part of what they want as cannon. And most likely have some kind of development strat to boot. The game only sells for 8 or 9 bucks I think. They aren't making any money off of it really, so profit isn't a motive. When profit isn't a motive for a big corp theres always an ulterior one that'll get them plenty.

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Not sure how pertinent this is to the topic at hand, but,

 

Aspyr in partnership with Disney Interactive and LucasArts is proud to announce STAR WARS™ Knights of the Old Republic™ II - The Sith Lords™ is now available on Mac and LInux, along with a massive update to all 3 platforms.

New features include:

  • 37 achievements to be earned through gameplay
  • Steam Cloud saves
  • Native widescreen resolution support
  • Resolution support up to 4K and 5K
  • Support for controllers, including Xbox 360, Xbox One, Playstation
  • 3, and Playstation 4, along with several others (check the system requirements for details)
  • Steam Workshop support! We proudly worked with the Restored Content Mod Team to have their famous TSLRCM up on launch day

Oh...and we added a "Force Speed Effects" option in the menu ;)

 

 

So, if Disney is investing anything at all in this I'm gonna guess its part of what they want as cannon. And most likely have some kind of development strat to boot. The game only sells for 8 or 9 bucks I think. They aren't making any money off of it really, so profit isn't a motive. When profit isn't a motive for a big corp theres always an ulterior one that'll get them plenty.

I don't think Disney investing in something means they're making it canon, really. They're rebooting Star Wars, not banishing the entire EU to nonexistence. They don't use the term, and it doesn't apply exactly as most people think, but its more practical to view it as alternate reality than something that's been chopped off and buried. This show of support seems more like throwing the dog a bone than anything else, seeing as the game was rushed to release, and that Obsidian wanted to release an official patch (for free, if I recall correctly), but LucasArts denied them. As a fan of KotOR II myself, I appreciate the show of support to the game just for what it does.

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Come to think of it, running a true cannon game is impossible for FaD. Unless you base it after Return. That said, you might want to pay cannon a little lip service but very little else....

 

The question wasn't asked so that one could run a canon game. It was more to find out if the RPG line counted as canon material. More or less to see what Disney is keeping and isn't. It's a simple curiosity and nothing more. 

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Come to think of it, running a true cannon game is impossible for FaD. Unless you base it after Return. That said, you might want to pay cannon a little lip service but very little else....

 

The question wasn't asked so that one could run a canon game. It was more to find out if the RPG line counted as canon material. More or less to see what Disney is keeping and isn't. It's a simple curiosity and nothing more. 

 

Did you pick up the GM's kit? The last page of the adventure book doesn't directly say one way or another, but it does offer a little advice to GMs about playing in different eras, mentioning using Legends. The general impression that I got was that the RPG is tied to Legends more than canon. Of course, it may just be under the impression that most players are familiar with Legends, and that all other eras fall into Legends now anyway, so anything that takes place in most other eras is going to be so.

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Come to think of it, running a true cannon game is impossible for FaD. Unless you base it after Return. That said, you might want to pay cannon a little lip service but very little else....

 

The question wasn't asked so that one could run a canon game. It was more to find out if the RPG line counted as canon material. More or less to see what Disney is keeping and isn't. It's a simple curiosity and nothing more. 

 

Then the answer is no, the RPG line is not "canon."

 

I find it best not to worry about canon too much, most of the fuss is from otaku that think the mouse cares about the number of rivets on a battledroids backpack. Disney doesn't, never did. The canon issues are about keeping storylines clear so film and TV production doesn't get bogged down, or filled with so much backstory/characters/ect the opening crawl has to be 2 hours long just so the audience knows whats going on.

 

The RPG line just provides ample source material for gaming, and tuned to meet the game's requirements. It doesn't really impact the overall galactic or Skywalker stoyline enough to interfere with canon, but they also reference EU enough to keep it from being able to go canon.

 

There's parts that down the road might migrate over, but as it stands the RPG, while not "Legends" as it's not an old book series ect. does fall into the same "noncanon" category as things like ToR.

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I remember reading this post somewhere, ages ago, from Gygax. He was looking in on his kids(or maybe grandkids) playing D&D in Greyhawk. He realized the Greyhawk they were playing in wasn't even close to the one he designed. RPGs by their very nature never stay cannon, we GMs see to that with our infernal customizations;)

 

As to whats being kept? Hard to say, but I do think Disney isn't the sort of mega-corp to throw anyone a bone unless they expect something in return. If they invested time, let alone money, in the old republic stuff I'd think its a safe bet to say they'll make that cannon to an extent. For now I wouldn't get too nervous using the history in the back of the core as a guideline though. Of course its all just theorizing really on anyones part until the movie comes out or Disney actually gives us a little more info....

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