Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Talon of Anathrax

Can you "Go to Ground" in Dark Heresy?

Recommended Posts

Is it possible to "Go to Ground" in DH (2E) in response to an enemy shooting at you?

I know that it's possible in 40k for extra cover, but I wondered if I could do it in the RPG (so that I suddenly count as prone, giving the ennemy a -10 on his To Hit roll). It could be useful as a last resort (or make the "Leap Up" talent actually useful in some situations).

 

It could even be useful tactically - if you can get the enemy sniper to Go to Ground, he loses sight of the PCs until his next turn and his Aim action is wasted.

 

Thanks!

I'm new to this website - sorry if I'm posting in the wrong area or something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Page 230 in the Core Rulebook lists Prone as a combat circumstance. It gives a +10 to BS a -10 to WS and a -20 to Evade Tests.

There's no corresponding Action that I can see but you could include it as part of the Stand/Mount/Dismount Action. That's generally what I've been doing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It gives a +10 to BS a -10 to WS and a -20 to Evade Tests.

 

Just for the sake of completion:

  • The prone character gains a -10 WS and -20 Evasion penalty.
  • Anyone attacking the prone character does so at -10 BS or +10 WS.

I would also consider allowing Prone characters with Heavy Weapons to count as "Braced", though.

 

Sidenote: "Bracing" always seemed a bit inconsequential in DH1 and did not change in DH2 either, in that the RAW apparently makes no difference between propping a gun on a bipod/tripod or simply "assuming a wide stance". Personally, I think it should depend on the weapon and that some wargear might require "more bracing" (as in: "oh, you don't have Bulging Biceps? well, better get a bipod and hope for lots of waist-high platforms then") than other.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it possible to "Go to Ground" in DH (2E) in response to an enemy shooting at you?

I know that it's possible in 40k for extra cover, but I wondered if I could do it in the RPG (so that I suddenly count as prone, giving the ennemy a -10 on his To Hit roll). It could be useful as a last resort (or make the "Leap Up" talent actually useful in some situations).

 

It could even be useful tactically - if you can get the enemy sniper to Go to Ground, he loses sight of the PCs until his next turn and his Aim action is wasted.

 

Thanks!

I'm new to this website - sorry if I'm posting in the wrong area or something.

There is the dive for cover use of the dodge talent. Instead of avoiding the attack like a normal dodge test, you dive behind the nearest piece of cover going prone. You still take the hits from that attack but get the protective benefit of the cover to those hits and are behind the cover for the purposes of any other enemies wanting to attack you.

As far as making the enemy go to ground there is the pinning mechanic (see page 230). Both the overwatch and suppressing fire actions cause pinning tests.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Is it possible to "Go to Ground" in DH (2E) in response to an enemy shooting at you?

I know that it's possible in 40k for extra cover, but I wondered if I could do it in the RPG (so that I suddenly count as prone, giving the ennemy a -10 on his To Hit roll). It could be useful as a last resort (or make the "Leap Up" talent actually useful in some situations).

 

It could even be useful tactically - if you can get the enemy sniper to Go to Ground, he loses sight of the PCs until his next turn and his Aim action is wasted.

 

Thanks!

I'm new to this website - sorry if I'm posting in the wrong area or something.

There is the dive for cover use of the dodge talent. Instead of avoiding the attack like a normal dodge test, you dive behind the nearest piece of cover going prone. You still take the hits from that attack but get the protective benefit of the cover to those hits and are behind the cover for the purposes of any other enemies wanting to attack you.

As far as making the enemy go to ground there is the pinning mechanic (see page 230). Both the overwatch and suppressing fire actions cause pinning tests.

 

Thanks a million! I suppose I'll use that sometimes - it can be used as a reaction, which is convenient.

But what happens if you jump behind something that covers you totally (like a tank, a corner or in a deep pit)?

Are you hit anyway but have 100 cover or something? That sounds nice, but means that any shot with the Warp Weapon quality will have just shot through an entire tank. Or does it simply automatically miss if you can no longer see your target?

I'm not too sure of how targeting interacts with this - it's implied that you move before the shot is fired, so breaking LoS should be possible.

If that means that the shot cannot be fired, does he simply lose his action?

Edited by Talon of Anathrax

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Is it possible to "Go to Ground" in DH (2E) in response to an enemy shooting at you?

I know that it's possible in 40k for extra cover, but I wondered if I could do it in the RPG (so that I suddenly count as prone, giving the ennemy a -10 on his To Hit roll). It could be useful as a last resort (or make the "Leap Up" talent actually useful in some situations).

 

It could even be useful tactically - if you can get the enemy sniper to Go to Ground, he loses sight of the PCs until his next turn and his Aim action is wasted.

 

Thanks!

I'm new to this website - sorry if I'm posting in the wrong area or something.

There is the dive for cover use of the dodge talent. Instead of avoiding the attack like a normal dodge test, you dive behind the nearest piece of cover going prone. You still take the hits from that attack but get the protective benefit of the cover to those hits and are behind the cover for the purposes of any other enemies wanting to attack you.

As far as making the enemy go to ground there is the pinning mechanic (see page 230). Both the overwatch and suppressing fire actions cause pinning tests.

 

Thanks a million! I suppose I'll use that sometimes - it can be used as a reaction, which is convenient.

But what haappens if you jump behind something that covers you totally like a tank or in a deep pit?

Are you hit anyway but have 100 cover or something? That sounds nice, but means that any shot with the Warp Weapon quality will have just shot through and entire tank. Or does it simply automatically miss if you can no longer see your target?

I'm not too sure of how targeting interacts with this - although it's implied that you move before the shot is fired, so breaking LoS should be possible.

If that means that the shot cannot be fired, does he simply lose his action?

 

 

 

The tank or large pit would simply have huge cover values (there's a chart somewhere). A warp weapon would indeed ignore these, making the dive for cover action a bit useless against them (makes sense).

 

It's an abstraction for the sake of ease of play. By RAW, loss of LoS would not cause you to waste your shooting action. Imagine that the shooter trains the gun on the fleeing target and fires as they move into cover, predicting where they will be and landing some hits, but for less damage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"By RAW, loss of LoS would not cause you to waste your shooting action"

Really? Where does it say that?

Do you mean for AoE weapons like Flamers and such? Yes, I can agree with that.

But for things like Sniper rifles, if I jump down a hole with the Dive for Cover action, why should they still be able to shoot me? They can't see me, so they can't target me - they can no longer shoot me.

 

But we can agree that the Dive for cover can protect you from any non-warp weapon hit if you hide behind sufficient cover - except that following those rules, if I roll a 10 to damage (Righteous Fury), an autogun can shoot through an Adamantium Bulkhead (as it would still deal 1 damage). :blink:

I really wish that cover had been a penalty to hit in 2E.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dive for Cover is the cleanest rule here.  As a specific on it, I would rule that you can dive to cover a number of meters equal to your AB away, and if you succeed the dive you retroactively impose the -10 for being prone, potentially negating a hit.

 

Righteous Fury vs. super cover is a weird outlier.  I think it may be a cleaner ruling to simply degrade the cover, or perhaps just keep a track of fury that *eventually* degrades the cover.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But what happens if you jump behind something that covers you totally (like a tank, a corner or in a deep pit)?

Are you hit anyway but have 100 cover or something? That sounds nice, but means that any shot with the Warp Weapon quality will have just shot through an entire tank. Or does it simply automatically miss if you can no longer see your target?

I'm not too sure of how targeting interacts with this - it's implied that you move before the shot is fired, so breaking LoS should be possible.

If that means that the shot cannot be fired, does he simply lose his action?

 

The attack that you are reacting to still hits you but you get the armor points of the cover you just leapt behind. The Dive for Cover rule very plainly states this. Of course you are likely to be out of line of sight for any other enemies who may have wanted to attack you that round and hadn't yet had the chance.

You are correct the warp weapon trait ignores cover so diving for cover against it would not be helpful but if their are multiple enemies with the warp weapon trait you could dive for cover against the first taking the hit but then be out of line of sight from the others preventing them from doing anything more than spraying and praying at you.

Luckily the warp weapon quality is pretty rare and is more often on melee attacks.

 

"By RAW, loss of LoS would not cause you to waste your shooting action"

Really? Where does it say that?

Do you mean for AoE weapons like Flamers and such? Yes, I can agree with that.

But for things like Sniper rifles, if I jump down a hole with the Dive for Cover action, why should they still be able to shoot me? They can't see me, so they can't target me - they can no longer shoot me.

 

But we can agree that the Dive for cover can protect you from any non-warp weapon hit if you hide behind sufficient cover - except that following those rules, if I roll a 10 to damage (Righteous Fury), an autogun can shoot through an Adamantium Bulkhead (as it would still deal 1 damage). :blink:

I really wish that cover had been a penalty to hit in 2E.

Direct quote of the dive for cover rule "if he succeeds, he leaps behind that cover and gains the prone condition. He is still hit by the attack, but benefits from the additional AP granted by the cover for that attack" (page 104).

The shots and the jumping are meant to be somewhat simultaneous.You were in siunload automatic weapons at a hero in the open, he leaps for cover but bullets still land all around him and hit the other side of the wall he jumped behind. That's what this is trying to represent.

Righteous Fury hits like that might be better viewed as ricochets or perhaps a small part of the target being very briefly uncovered, rather than blowing clean through, depending on the weapon being used and the specific cover.

 

Dive for Cover is the cleanest rule here.  As a specific on it, I would rule that you can dive to cover a number of meters equal to your AB away, and if you succeed the dive you retroactively impose the -10 for being prone, potentially negating a hit.

 

Righteous Fury vs. super cover is a weird outlier.  I think it may be a cleaner ruling to simply degrade the cover, or perhaps just keep a track of fury that *eventually* degrades the cover.

To be clear, the bit about the cover being within agility bonus meters is already part of the rule. I wouldn't apply the prone to hit penalty. The actions are roughly meant to be simultaneous and applying retroactive modifiers could both set a bad precedent and could get annoying for players when the enemies start diving for cover.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...