Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Duciris

Leia Organa

Recommended Posts

I love that we're already seeing Leia. The art on the card looks amazing and fits her perfectly.

However, what is with the sculpt? It looks like she's on a catwalk, hand on her out-thrust hip, sporting the latest in the Rebel Thermal Line. Her accessories include her purse conviently shaped like a blaster, which she holds over her shoulder haphazardly. I love the card art, it looks like she alwasy did holding a blast: uneasy, ready to recieve fire as she braces the oversized piece against her shoulder. Disagree? Look at Han's sculpt: dynamic, being shot at yet trying to fire off a cheap shot before he gets hit. Perfect. Leia's? "I'm a solider-boy, hmph." I have a lot of FFG games, and this the most misogynistic piece I've seen. She is the most widely recognized and powerful female character from the late 70s and early 80s. What gives?

Edited by Duciris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm torn about the sculpt.

 

Leia is one half bad ass.  The type of BA that makes all of the other dudes in the films question their courage.  She had killed more Imperials than her brother until he blew up the Death Star.  She spits in Darth "I Have a Black Skull For a Face" Vader's face repeatedly, the dude that enjoys choking people with his mind.  She murdered the galaxy's most notorious gangster with a chain while in a bikini.  The miniature doesn't do this half of her justice.

 

Her other half is sass.  So sassy that she shuts up the galaxy's most notorious spout of one-liners, Han "Cannot Form Paragraphs" Solo.  She can talk back to the galaxy's most notorious gangster while in a bikini, and then kill him moments later.  The sculpt captures her attitude perfectly by making her say "I'm wearing a thick snowsuit, but you're still going to check me out... laser brain."

 

If her sculpt had matched the card art, it would have been great and likely my second favorite sculpt of everything they've done.  That said, I still think this version is pretty good because I laugh knowing she's laughing at all the idiots checking her out in a snow suit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Before you start using words like "misogynistic", you need to check a dictionary. How is it misogynistic to depict a female figure striking a feminine pose? What is misogynistic, however, is your post snarkily suggesting that the feminine is weaker than the masculine. That is very disrespectful and offensive to women. Leia is rightly feminine, and proudly so, as she was in the movies, a widely recognized and powerful character as you yourself said in your post. There is no reason to attribute misogyny to her pose in the game.

 

That said, I like the card art and the figure. Her pose helps distinguish her from the other figures when they are all unpainted, and the card art is nice to look at when you're controlling her.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That said, I still think this version is pretty good because I laugh knowing she's laughing at all the idiots checking her out in a snow suit.

 

To me, the sculpt looks more like she is waiting impatiently for someone -- probably Han -- to finish mopping up his share of the Stormtroopers and catch up.

 

On another note, I like that she really is a fighter and a leader, gameplaywise. I think she's the Rebels' cheapest 3-dice attacker (although blue/yellow/yellow is pretty low on damage). And her ability to give someone else an attack at the same time against the same target is great. I mean, it's a lot like one of Gideon's 4xp campaign abilities. And if the other attacker is a Rebel Trooper, they'll get their aim bonus. Soldiers won't hesitate to follow her lead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My wife and I were discussing this exact thing when we saw the reveal. The sculpt is, I agree, misogynistic crap. I don't think I'd ever seen those promo images before but they look terribly unnatural; the pose doesn't look physically comfortable (at least in the ANH version), it's not in character at all, and she certainly doesn't look like she's in combat, which is what this game depicts. Disappointing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's that Jungian thing: The duality of (wo)man: It's hard being the most adorable lifeform and the most badas* mo**erfu**er at the same time.

To me, she looks like she already has killed the whole 501st Legion singlehandedly with her blaster and now is waiting for the reinforcements to clean that mess up for her.

 

I like the sculpt.

 

 

 

The sculpt is misogynistic crap.

 

What you said is more S. Freud: People see, what they want to see. Sometimes, when someone talks about someone or something else, you learn more about the one talking, than about what he's talking about.

 

It's a plastic figure wearing a snowsuit, it's not like she's naked or something ... and you call that misogynistic crap. What do you think does this tell the rest of the world about you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What do you think does this tell the rest of the world about you?

 

 

That I believe depicting (almost) the sole female character in the (good) movies as some sort of poseur sass machine, in spite of her movie portrayal, is a cop out. In any case I can understand why people might disagree. I apologise for concerning you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMO a sassy Leia IS in character and does portray her quite well. It's also a good idea to have different characters in different positions, not all pointing a gun in the act of shooting, for recognitions sake. That sculpt and it's pose screams Leia to me a mile away.

 

Also, DerBaer said everything I wanted to say but better.

Edited by Hipsu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just my opinion, but I don't think the pose has anything to do with a hatred for women at all, since that's what misogyny means.

I know that there are people that get upset about the fact that Leia had to wear a bikini for Jabba. Again, in my opinion that fit the story well in that was one of the tactics Jabba was using to humiliate and break her. Its also my opinion that her strength shone through all the more when, even in the face of such humiliation, Leia was able to overcome that trial and destroy her captor.

Sorry if I've offended anyone, just throwing in my two cents (and yes, I'm aware that's all its worth)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's that Jungian thing: The duality of (wo)man: It's hard being the most adorable lifeform and the most badas* mo**erfu**er at the same time.

To me, she looks like she already has killed the whole 501st Legion singlehandedly with her blaster and now is waiting for the reinforcements to clean that mess up for her.

 

I like the sculpt.

 

 

 

The sculpt is misogynistic crap.

 

What you said is more S. Freud: People see, what they want to see. Sometimes, when someone talks about someone or something else, you learn more about the one talking, than about what he's talking about.

 

It's a plastic figure wearing a snowsuit, it's not like she's naked or something ... and you call that misogynistic crap. What do you think does this tell the rest of the world about you?

 

 

 

What do you think does this tell the rest of the world about you?

 

 

That I believe depicting (almost) the sole female character in the (good) movies as some sort of poseur sass machine, in spite of her movie portrayal, is a cop out. In any case I can understand why people might disagree. I apologise for concerning you.

 

 

I'm not sure I agree with ibsh, but I'm not sure I disagree either (and Jerbiwan, the common meaning of misogyny has changed whether we like it or not).  I certainly don't think he/she is guilty of some sort of Freudian projection, or absurd politically correct overreaction.

 

My initial thoughts on seeing that model were along a similar line, that it was designed to be a sexy woman rather than a true character, but I reserve my judgement for seeing it in the flesh, so to speak.

 

I can certainly understand to desire to play up her "sass" and moodiness, but I can also see why you'd think it suspicious that they do that uniquely for her, given all main characters had well established personalities, and she was as much a gunslinging soldier as any of the rest of them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I appear to have stirred something up here, so let me clarify. I empathise to some extent with all the opinions in the thread. I used the word misgynistic only to quote the OP, whose post I agreed with wholeheartedly, by the way. Sexist or dismissive might be better terms, but mainly I just find the whole thing disappointing.

It seems like Leia's figure was an opportunity for FFG to do something special, but they squandered it by doing something (and these are all just my two cents) ugly and uncharacteristic, that depicts the character with a superficial passivity that I find a *tiny bit* offensive given the material..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fascinating how we see the sculpt so differently, ibsh. I see nothing sexist, uncharasteristic, or passivity in that sculpt. I see a strong character with a big gun in a "got a problem with that?" pose. It reminds me of Leia.

 

Fair enough  :)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I appear to have stirred something up here

 

 Unfortunately it seems too easy nowadays to do that isn't it? Please allow me to apologize if I've added fuel to the fire.(if there was one) Back to the sculpt itself. While its true I don't find it objectifies Leia in any way, I certainly agree that the pose could have been better. When I think of Leia on Hoth, she doesn't even hold a blaster at all in ESB.

 

So now the game design parameters come into play. If she is sculpted without a blaster, will there be confusion as to whether she can attack? (I'm not a game designer so I don't know if that's a consideration)

How to hold the blaster? If she holds it like on the card art, will she look like a repurposed stormtrooper?

Let me reiterate, I think the sculpt could have been more in line with her actual personality, maybe these were just things they were contending with?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I gotta agree with DerBaer, Hipsu, and Spidey.  Like Spidey NZ points out, that *is* a classic Leia pose, just in a different costume.  I'm not going to argue that it's "something special, but IMO calling it "misogynistic" is hyperbolic at best.  A woman putting her hand on her hip isn't overtly sexual or weak.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Two of the other weaker leaders also have more passive poses.  Gideon is pointing his gun almost 90 degrees from his line of sight and the imperial officer is pointing his gun at the ground.  She is a leader.  She was definitely more about attitude and mouth in the first two movies, and even in RotJ she was mainly a damsel in distress.  Yes, she killed Jabba barehanded and shot some stormies at the bunker.  She also was tied half-naked to a giant slug, wrecked her speederbike and had to be rescued by a teddy bear, and then got shot in the arm and felt up by Han (he grabs her boob while checking her injury, watch it again if you don't believe me).  Sorry, but our memories of her being a BA are somewhat inaccurate.  I love Leia, but her character was more of a smarta** than a bada**, a distinction which I think this pose captures.  And, P.S., SHE'S WEARING A FREAKIN' PARKA!  How can this really be a discussion we are having?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, but our memories of her being a BA are somewhat inaccurate. 

I'm more remembering her using a blaster in A New Hope.

Primarily, my concern and interest in the sculpt is in the context of the game (which I love). Irrevelivent of which side of the table I sit on, I love how dynamic the figures make the game feel. It's a turn based combat that feels much more live action because of the great mechanics, detailed tiles and dynamic sculpts. Ultimately, I will play the game regardless of sculpt quality (Descent 1st Ed. as proof) but with Han, Luke and Vader physically posed toward serious combat, I want Leia to be equally dynamic as it makes the game more immersive.

Thanks to everyone for joining the discussion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From what we can tell she is probably more of a leader figure, and people have made the point that many of the more leadery types are in less combaty poses.Now, she is in a slightly more "rested" pose than some of the others are, but I wouldn't go as far as saying it is misogynistic. It doesn't feel like she is meant to be in some sort of display pose, just that she is waiting for something. It looks slightly odd because of the slightly goofy gun, but then all the guns are an odd size (what can you expect from "heroic scale", oddly proportioned hands, heads and weapons are the norm...).

It is certainly a lot less troubling than many female miniatures I have seen. She is at least practically dressed, even if the cut is very much one designed to be "flattering" (but then to be fair, that is how she is dressed in the film).

Edited by borithan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see the problem, not all the figures are in a combat pose. Royal Guards are just standing there in their sculpture and they are one of the most feared people in the galaxy. General Sorin's figure isn't even holding a gun.

 

It's not like she's bending over and showing cleavage or her butt.

Edited by patrickmahan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ugh, I'm annoyed my brain won't let this go but... *sigh*

 

There *are* serious issues with the portrayal of women characters in games (digital and tabletop) and the treatment of women players in our current gamer culture.

 

However, IMO, the relatively inflammatory OP here does more harm than good.  Going straight to verbage like:

I have a lot of FFG games, and this the most misogynistic piece I've seen

Is seriously WTF!?

 

Portraying women as sex objects is misogynistic.  Shouting racial slurs at female players during tournaments is misogynistic.  Writing female characters that lack any kind of agency is misogynistic.  Harrassing female cosplayers at events is misogynistc. Devaluing half our species based on gender is misogynistic.

 

You think this figure's pose does anything like this?!  This isn't misogynistic, it's just an indication that someone needs to pull their head out of their exhaust port and grow some thicker skin.  

 

You don't like the pose? Then say you don't like the pose, and don't try to justify it some SJW crap.

 

Calling this sculpt misogynistic just devalues the word and worsens the signal to noise ratio when conversations need to happen about actual misogyny.  

 

When that happens, speak up.  Until that time, just go pout in the corner.

Edited by LethalDose

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Misogyny is the hatred or dislike of women or girls. According to feminist theory, misogyny can be manifested in numerous ways, including sexual discrimination, belittling of women, violence against women, and sexual objectification of women." - taken from Wikipedia. (emphasis mine!)

Is the sculpt misogynistic? Maybe. Maybe not. Regardless, it's definitely sexist. With her hand on her hip and knee bent in, it's a (mildly) suggestive pose even taking into account the existing promotional images released by Lucasfilm.

 

Leia, despite her leadership in the Senate and Rebellion, was often portrayed a the damsel in distress and an objectified woman. SW:ANH hinges on this fact. It's the role the character fulfills in the hero's journey that is Star Wars. But just because that's the role the character in the film represented doesn't mean we have to accept a modern version of Leia as such in our game.

 

When you consider the other armed ally models, Luke is in a firing stance (taken almost perfectly from Obi-Wan's death) as is Han (in an almost perfect reproduction of the flight from Mos Eisley) and Chewbacca is advancing with his Bowcaster in a low, ready position. All look ready to immediately engage the enemy alongside the main characters of IA. The Leia sculpt doesn't.

FFG had an opportunity to create an action sculpt that presented parity between the original heroes of the trilogy. It's a bit disappointing to see that they didn't take advantage of that opportunity.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by cliffetters

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...