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Tegman

Warp Perception, how does it work, technically

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As the title. I have a player that has this power and it gives the character the Unnatural Senses (X) trait, where X is equal to the psy rating x10.

Under the trait Unnatural Senses, it states that the creature can perceive its surroundings using senses other than sight or hearing.

 

Since the description doesn't say rules wise what happens I just told the player that for now, you ignore lightning conditions and also gained a +10 to all senses while the power is active.

However, the fluff text on the power says "The psyker opens his senses to the Warp, allowing unnatural tendrils of energy to augment his own perceptions. His flesh no longer limited, he casts his gaze wider and hungrily scents prey from farther afield."

Does this mean that the character can see/hear through walls?

Ignore characters wearing chameleoline cloaks?

 

can someone please help me with this?

I don't want the power to be too powerful, but it should give the character some bonus at least, since it cost a half action to sustain.

 

Sincerely, Tegman

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Does this mean that the character can see/hear through walls?

Ignore characters wearing chameleoline cloaks?

 

I would say yes, but the character would not hear or see in the mundane sense, but rather "sense" someone saying something without being able to make out what they are talking about exactly, maybe represented by faint whispers. They'd also perceive their surroundings in an abstracted way, perhaps like in the game Perception:

 

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Living beings would be perceived as blazing "soul fires", depending on the intensity of their will and/or psychic affinity. Note that this means the character may well develop a blind spot when it comes to Pariahs or Tau, relying on this trait too much when there are, in fact, some creatures in the galaxy who would be invisible to Warp gaze.

 

Other than that, keep in mind that Unnatural Senses are limited to a certain range, and by the time someone with a Chameleoline cloak drops into their radius, I'd argue they should be spottable with the naked eye as well, favourable lighting conditions permitting.

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Psy rating x10 meters could be pretty dang far. Even early on, 30 meters is las pistol range, and bigger than the average modern house. For reference, Americans: That's ~100 feet. Not too shabby.

 

I think that this ability is incredibly powerful. My interpretation allows the psyker to basically see EVERYTHING in the radius, but since the senses aren't only limited to sight, it's like feeling and experiencing everything at the same time. Of course, as a psychic power that makes sense to me.

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Psy rating x10 meters could be pretty dang far. Even early on, 30 meters is las pistol range, and bigger than the average modern house. For reference, Americans: That's ~100 feet. Not too shabby.

 

I think that this ability is incredibly powerful. My interpretation allows the psyker to basically see EVERYTHING in the radius, but since the senses aren't only limited to sight, it's like feeling and experiencing everything at the same time. Of course, as a psychic power that makes sense to me.

I too, think it is really powerful, and you're right about the range. After a while the psyker will see a lot, unhindered by walls etc.

In a Swedish fantasy rpg that I have, there's a spell called 'Map' and it was so game breaking that I removed it.

 

I'll see how much she'll use Warp Perception, if it is abused too much I'll just let it work the way I came up with in the first place, before I asked about it in the forums (ie. +10 to all senses and ignore lightning conditions, also remove the half turn sustain cost).

 

Thanks for the input.

Edited by Tegman

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The half action sustain cost being the major balancing factor here, my group has been playing Unnatural Sense as "all beings are effectively in an open field relative to you".  So, you can see through walls, around corners, in the dark, etc, but will still need to rely on awareness to notice things amidst the totality of perception.  If somebody is good enough at stealth to sneak past you in an open field with no equipment bonuses (or if you botch awareness) something can still slip past you.

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The half action sustain cost being the major balancing factor here, my group has been playing Unnatural Sense as "all beings are effectively in an open field relative to you".  So, you can see through walls, around corners, in the dark, etc, but will still need to rely on awareness to notice things amidst the totality of perception.  If somebody is good enough at stealth to sneak past you in an open field with no equipment bonuses (or if you botch awareness) something can still slip past you.

Hmm, that's not a bad idea. It doesn't make the psyker see everything automatically. I'll try it out and see what happens.

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If they can see through walls etc, does this mean they see hidden rooms and traps too?

Or do they only see living beings, ignoring walls and cover etc?

Because if it functions more like x-ray vision, ie. they see through stuff, but it's still there, only shadowlike, then it's too good in my opinion.

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It's not something you _see_. It's something you _know is somewhere there_.

So I have old rules (created for M:tA once) for humans using unhuman senses, and I felt it fit here perfectly:

 

1. Every level of accuracy need one degree of sucsess on power activation roll. To know there is a walls and a rooms (secret rooms included) you need 0 DoS (yes, psyker CAN make a map of the sphere radius <his PR*10> with this power). To know there is a safe in one of that rooms you need 1 DoS. To know there is SOMETHING in this safe - 2. To know there is a letter in the safe - 3. To know visuals of this letter - 4. To know content - 5. And to know the content and to understand the content is different things, so it's possible to download a book at once, but it will require roll of Int and likely give Psyker a bit Insanity (something about 1 IP for each page beyond 1 for DoS of Int roll).

 

2. Psyker _can_ have all his information about his surroundings at once, but it can make him mad - human mind is not trained for this. So he need to focus his attention. He can do it for every object within rolled scape, but when he do it he lose his attention to all upperscale object. If he studies a safe he can't know what roomguard doing. If he is looking for one room, he can't get information from another. For every try to catch one more object of this or upper scale he rolls Per or gain 1 IP.  Each attention shift takes half-action.

 

3. Psyker _can_ fight with his Unnatural Senses only, but he gains -30 to all his combat rolls, no matter is common senses using or not, with penalty negation at 10 for each 2 DoS. This isn't apply for Astropaths or somebody who learned their soul sight, or how that trait (to not be counted as blind despite you are, it was in RT). That's because Unnatural Senses white-noising his perception, that is trained for human uses. Also this penalty applied each time he trying to use his common senses, for notice a trap by eyes or react to asked question.

 

4. Psyker _can_ hear, smell, taste or feel with that power, but IP is coming. For each sense but sight (human is totaly sight being) he gain 2 IP. For each location above first to catch a sense (listening three dialogs in three different rooms for example or taste a three food serving at once) - 2 IP again (life was not training psyker for this!).

 

5. Psyker _can't_ take an information about "what is it", if he can't identify it by normal means. He can feel strange taste of food, but has have knowledge to identify poison or spice. He can see some mechanism, but has have knowledge to differ trap from hidden safe.

 

6. There are talents to mitigate that limitations (created as homerules). When fully evolved and with conjuction to another divination powers this became one of the best instruments divinator have, yes.

 

This rules also used with implanted augurs, expecially best-quality ones.

Edited by Aenno

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If they can see through walls etc, does this mean they see hidden rooms and traps too?

Or do they only see living beings, ignoring walls and cover etc?

Because if it functions more like x-ray vision, ie. they see through stuff, but it's still there, only shadowlike, then it's too good in my opinion.

 

My opinion is they see everything at the same time, including walls, traps, how many bullets are left in the magazine that guy 15 meters away is carrying etc. However, they don't immediately KNOW everything they can see. It takes time to sift through all the information, just like it takes time to search a room. In this case, the psyker has an advantage, he doesn't have to move, as he's just looking through things with his mind. However, it's still far from instantaneous.

 

Being able to see a room doesn't mean you immediately notice that the flipped up rug is important. Maybe you notice it and then using your warp perception you can look "under" the rug without disturbing it. So, tests like awareness and investigation and such are definitely in order!

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Yeah, I'm sort of in the same boat - although my reasoning would be that what the Psyker perceives is too "twisted" (see above) to make it out clearly. As such, maybe you could allow a Perception test with a penalty - the disadvantage being that it's more difficult to make out details due to how the environment is perceived compared to someone actually standing in the room, but the advantage being that the Psyker can make the test at all, even through walls.

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To be honest I believe it's not Perception but Psyniscience (Perception skill), and Psyniscience roll for activation is exactly that roll you should make. You take that kind of senses when you take this power, it's not something really appears or disappears when you roll or stop upkeep.

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Hmm, I thought Psyniscience is only for psychic phenomena -- you could use that to spot an ambush by people who have a soul, or the presence of a daemon. For material traps I'd revert to Perception, to interpret what you see with your "inner eye".

 

On the other hand, Psyniscience could also be regarded as a general aptitude of the user to "decrypt" the mental images that form in their head. In this case, it could indeed be the go-to Skill for just about anything you spot with Unnatural Senses.

 

I suppose it's always better to have a Skill to assign to such Tests, too, instead of just a Characteristic. My only concern might be balancing, as Psyniscience is something that every single Psyker is going to push, so it becomes a very "standardised" bonus to add to those Per rolls.

Edited by Lynata

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One could argue it's psyniscience because you're using the warp TO perceive something, but I think it's a gray area. As a DM I would try to avoid penalizing rolls to perception while Warp Perception is active, because I feel like it should be a boon. There's no details about how it works and Unnatural Senses certainly doesn't say "other senses are deadened" or "don't work."

 

Psyniscience, imho, without Warp Perception would be used to find evidence of Warp activity or to detect active "warp energies" be it spells or demons or anything else. Basically, the Detect Magic spell from D&D. Perception/awareness is just mundane senses.

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Hmm, I thought Psyniscience is only for psychic phenomena -- you could use that to spot an ambush by people who have a soul, or the presence of a daemon. For material traps I'd revert to Perception, to interpret what you see with your "inner eye".

 

 

As I can read Psyniscience is kind of "warp senses" at all, that every psyker and some muggles possesed. Generally it can be used for detect warp phenomena, such as souls, daemons or warp rifts. But if you have your warp senses developed enough you can use it to suppress limitations of your mundane senses. That's why you rolling Psyniscience to manifest Warp Perception at all. So yeah, psyker supposed to get that bonuses, that's why I set some looking harsh penalties.

And to interpret I make psykers to roll Tech-use or Lore (Tech). "Yeah. You can see some mechanism here. You don't know what is it exactly."

 

As a DM I would try to avoid penalizing rolls to perception while Warp Perception is active, because I feel like it should be a boon. 

 

It is a boon. It's kind of power that makes, for example, useless any attempt to hide after some obstacle or draping (hey-ho Polonius!), any attempt to hide a weapon... ****, this power by the book have limitless usage!

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How does this thing work aith the Perfect Timing power?

As I understand it, combining those powers means that by RAW you can shoot through walls (as they become cover between you and your target). Am I the only one to see how broken this can be?

 

As a GM though, I'd rule that right out.

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How does this thing work aith the Perfect Timing power?

As I understand it, combining those powers means that by RAW you can shoot through walls (as they become cover between you and your target). Am I the only one to see how broken this can be?

 

As a GM though, I'd rule that right out.

I believe it's not working. Walls grants full cover, so you just haven't any chance at all to hit non-covered Hit Location.

But of course if you have plasma gun and not-very-thick wall, you can shoot somebody with a wall, as Damaging Cover rule speaks.

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How does this thing work aith the Perfect Timing power?

As I understand it, combining those powers means that by RAW you can shoot through walls (as they become cover between you and your target). Am I the only one to see how broken this can be?

 

As a GM though, I'd rule that right out.

Both powers require a half action to sustain so if both are active you have no actions left to shoot with.

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How does this thing work aith the Perfect Timing power?

As I understand it, combining those powers means that by RAW you can shoot through walls (as they become cover between you and your target). Am I the only one to see how broken this can be?

 

As a GM though, I'd rule that right out.

Both powers require a half action to sustain so if both are active you have no actions left to shoot with.

 

Well, it's possible if you want to break system (and have not another issues).

Sustained powers stays active until end of turn, so it's possible to have Perfect Timing and Warp Percertion when you're attacking.

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How does this thing work aith the Perfect Timing power?

As I understand it, combining those powers means that by RAW you can shoot through walls (as they become cover between you and your target). Am I the only one to see how broken this can be?

 

As a GM though, I'd rule that right out.

Both powers require a half action to sustain so if both are active you have no actions left to shoot with.

 

Well, it's possible if you want to break system (and have not another issues).

Sustained powers stays active until end of turn, so it's possible to have Perfect Timing and Warp Percertion when you're attacking.

 

You are correct. I was also wrong about the sustain actions needed. It appears that it doesn't take a half action to sustain each but just a half action to sustain both.

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I would just DM fiat (if necessary) that Perfect Timing doesn't work for enemies who are not exposing themselves at all.

 

If a player argued for a ricochet against a target in full cover, I may allow it.

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My initial reading of this was that it was just "dark vision" basically, but then I noticed there is another trait that does just that.

To me it instead seems to be more like D&Ds Blindsight & Tremorsense. I wouldn't treat it as XRay vision allowing to to see ammo and the like, and past walls you'd at best know that someone is there and be able to point at them.

Edited by Dastion

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