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Crabbok

Inquisitor's TIE vs TIE Advanced

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Considering that it lists the ship as TIE Adv. Prototype, I don't think it can take the TIE Advanced x1 title.

 

This is reinforced by the TIE/v1 title being TIE Adv. Prototype only.

Then it would mean Darth Vader couldn't take the new X1 title from the Raider expansion because the cards says it is a TIE Advanced X1, and the title is limited to TIE Advanced only.

Since FFG said that Darth Vader can take the new X1 title, then it is fair to assume that a TIE Advanced Prototype is valid to take the X1 card.

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Considering that it lists the ship as TIE Adv. Prototype, I don't think it can take the TIE Advanced x1 title.

 

This is reinforced by the TIE/v1 title being TIE Adv. Prototype only.

Then it would mean Darth Vader couldn't take the new X1 title from the Raider expansion because the cards says it is a TIE Advanced X1, and the title is limited to TIE Advanced only.

Since FFG said that Darth Vader can take the new X1 title, then it is fair to assume that a TIE Advanced Prototype is valid to take the X1 card.

 

 

The only issue with this arguement is, for the millionth time, that it also means that he has no dial. 

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Considering that it lists the ship as TIE Adv. Prototype, I don't think it can take the TIE Advanced x1 title.

 

This is reinforced by the TIE/v1 title being TIE Adv. Prototype only.

Then it would mean Darth Vader couldn't take the new X1 title from the Raider expansion because the cards says it is a TIE Advanced X1, and the title is limited to TIE Advanced only.

Since FFG said that Darth Vader can take the new X1 title, then it is fair to assume that a TIE Advanced Prototype is valid to take the X1 card.

 

 

Darth Vader's ship is a "TIE Advanced x1" - note the "TIE Advanced" part of that.

 

The "TIE Adv. Prototype" does not say "Advanced" anywhere.

 

Both ships can use the TIE only title (only requirement is the "TIE" part of the ship name), Vader can use the TIE/x1 title (requires "TIE Advanced" as part of the ship name), and the TIE Adv. Prototype can use the TIE/v1 title (requires "TIE Adv. Prototype" as part of the ship name).

 

Barring an FAQ entry to the contrary, the distinctions here seem quite clear to me.

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I think it'll find a place, especially with the inquisitor being a mean 2 range mailer throwing 3 dice; through target lock with tracers out there and all of a sudden if he's followed by other standard TIEs, someone's in for a bad day.

I remain optimistic

 

 

The Inquisitor is awesome. In a lot of ways he's better than having a true 3 attack ship. He's going to be one of the best ships 30 points or under you can put on the table. It's the other guys that I worry will be costed out of the game if the PS 2 costs more than an alpha.

I'd be willing to bet it will be like 20 points. At that point, it becomes a question of "do I think it's worth having shields to eat early critical hits? " Also, depending on the dial, how arc dodgey will it actually be?

At that point it becomes an opportunity cost question, which would put it in a nice niche sweet spot.

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Sorry to complain, but are these really any different? I know the Inquisitor's TIE has slightly more rounded wings, but I figured that was just the animation style of Rebels and teh fact that it was an earlier model.... but come on - it didn't need to be a whole new ship. I really hope they treat it like an advanced and allow it to equip the advanced title. Otherwise it just seems silly to have made an all new mold for a ship that is... well, it's the same ship - it just happened to be in a cartoon instead of Episode 4.

The key difference is that one is from a cartoon, and the other one is real.

That cartoon is just as official as the movies - and is the source for much of Wave 8 it seems. That's the last bit of food I'll feed this troll :)

I'm making the assumption that Audio weasel is making a joke that hinges on the fictional nature of both TIE model, and indeed the entire Star Wars universe.

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Another reason I am nearly certain that the X1 title WILL be an option for the Prototype, is that they wouldn't have had to make a V1 title otherwise. The ONLY reason to make a V1 title is to make the X1 a choice and not a mandatory upgrade.

Again just my opinion. Thanks for your thoughts guys, you all rock!

The V1 title is there because FFG has fallen in love with titles since Imperial Aces showed them how powerful they can be. As far as I can remember, only 1 ship in Wave 5 (the Z-95) didn't get a title.

Of all the Scum ships, only the Z-95 and Khazicstan don't have a title.

And a whole bunch of Imperial and Rebel ships have titles.

I think they simply like the idea of giving the Adv. Prototype a title. Then ran with it.

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If I had to bet (I don't have to. I won't), I'd bet that the X1 title will not be something the Adv. Prototype can take. The prototype is simply too well priced (from what I can tell) to require a 4pt break on pricing.

Thematically, I'd love the Advanced to have access to the V1, but not the Prototype to the X1. It would make sense for a ship designed later to have all the bells and whistles.

But that's theme, not mechanics. I don't think we'll see the Inquisitor with an ATC.

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This guy is going to be competing for a list slot primarily with three other ships: the TIE Fighter, the TIE Interceptor and of course the TIE Advanced. Therefor it will have to fill a role that they cannot without making them totally obsolete. First, comparing it to the Fighter it will obviously been a bit more pricey to make up for its increased staying power, so in terms of points per red dice the basic TIE will still be at the top of the game, bare bones these guys will probably work best as blockers, using their boost/barrel rolls to place themselves as annoying as possible while their 2h+2s make them much harder to oneshot then the basic fighter. 

 

Interceptors are the only other imperial ship that has both boost and barrel roll as default actions this combo allows them to greatly modify their position after moving which aids greatly in arc dodging and allows them to use this combo in tandem with autothrusters. Bare bones there is no contest, the Interceptor is a tad more expensive but gets three attack dice and trades target lock for evade so it seems extremely unlikely that they would ever compete for a slot. However once you toss on the title and the points gap shrinks but the Proto Adv gains the ability to augment both its attack and defense every turn. This coupled with autothrusters and its two shields makes it a oddball of a cheapish tanky arc dodger. Even with target lock it won't be able to match the Interceptor offensively (except for the Inquisitor maybe) but it becomes an armor plated gnat, stinging for nickle and dime damage while proving extremely hard to swat particularly for its points cost.

 

Now that leaves the standard TIE Advanced. It has one more hull point and trades evade for the boost but the generics are almost as costly as the Prototype's most expensive ace. If they can both take the X1 title then the Prototype is somehow just as good in nearly every way then the fully developed Advanced for much cheaper, which is frankly stupid. Otherwise the Advanced fills a role as an elite versatile ship able to be kitted out at extreme discount with a number of offensive upgrades that are nicely complimented by its inherent durability while the Prototype functions in one of the two rolls I described earlier.

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I really don't see them being cheaper than an interceptor when they have shields and TL, it's bound to have a worse dial to boot.

I've lost count of how many times I've seen headhunters pop in one shot so I doubt the proto generics will fare much better even with that third green die so I think only the named pilots will ever show up.

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The important question is can the inquistors tie take the title card or not?

 

No. The TIE/x1 card is for the TIE Advanced. The TIE Advanced Prototype comes with its own TIE/v1 title.

 

For those who somehow aren't convinced, TIE/x1 is an enormous buff. FFG wouldn't release a new ship that also needs the Raider to be playable.

 

The Prototype doesn't NEED the x1 title... but going by current rules and how they have ruled on the TIE Mk.II card... It sure looks like the Prototype CAN take the x1 title.  Time will tell...

 

 

No. I guarantee it cannot. The intent is very clear. The Inquisitor does not get TIE/x1 and Advanced Targeting Computer (that's better than an HLC) for 26 points. That wouldn't just make the TIE advanced obsolete, it'd outclass the high tier TIE phantoms. For one point more than the Sigma.

TIE/x1 is a five point buff. It's autoinclude. FFG wouldn't release a new ship that needs the TIE/x1 title that only comes with the Raider. And if they did, they'd replace the x1 completely.

If it can equip TIE/x1 it is either TIE advanced x1 bad out of the box and needs the Raider, or it's flat out broken with TIE/x1 equipped.

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This is less comparable to the Interceptor as it is the A-wing: Relatively tough for its firepower, but also (hopefully, this time round) costed for its price.

 

The real question is where to price it - the A-wing is 15pts naked, but 17 with a missile slot. With Prockets out there, missile slots on an AGI-3 ship really do have a value these days, too.

 

The problem: The naked ships this time round will have missile slots. So if it's 15pts, it'll out-procket A-wings. At 17 points, you'll never fly 'em naked. At 16 points... it's probably an unhappy middleground. It's going to be educational to see just what they think it's worth, or if the dial is sufficiently drastically distinctive to shift the price one way or the other.

 

I just hope we don't end up with the Prototypes looking like chumps again.

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Since Vorpal Sword says that the X1 title most likely won't be available for the Tie Advanced Prototype, then I'll concede that it is the gospel since he has never been wrong about anything.... but then that makes the entire point of the Inquisitors TIE dumb.   A Slightly Earlier version of a ship is virtually the same ship  and really doesn't need a whole new model and separate set of equipment.    And there is little reason for the V1 title in that case as well, since Non-Unique titles are given out as FIXES, and should never be given out when a ship is announced - if its broken to the point of needing a fix/title, then don't release it yet.   

 

  Like - this means we are probably going to get a separate A-Wing from Rebels, an a separate B-Wing, that each have new unique titles incompatible with other things.   

 

  If they are going to make a new ship, and a new expansion, then I would prefer it to be something actually new, especially if they aren't going to allow it to incorporate with the existing versions of that same ship.  If the X1 title actually can't go on the V1, then they shouldn't have even have put Advanced on the card.  (Or ADV.).  

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First, It DOES say Tie Advanced. Adv. is an abbreviation for Advanced. There are other elements in the game that use abbreviations, but it doesn't change the nature or identity of the element.

Such as?

This one comes to mind...

X-wing-card1.png

Edited. Quoted wrong post.

Edited by stackeffect

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Oh, I've been wrong about lots of things.

I will challenge you on the point that non-unique titles are always fixes, though--they may have been (although I'd debate the Royal Guard Pilot title), but there's no reason they have to be. In this case, it gives players an extra option for the TIE Adv. Prototype beyond its upgrade bar, and helps distinguish it from both the TIE fighter and TIE Advanced. I'd call those laudable design goals, not fixes.

I do agree that it would have been better to sidestep this confusion by keeping "Adv." out of the name, though.

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Since Vorpal Sword says that the X1 title most likely won't be available for the Tie Advanced Prototype, then I'll concede that it is the gospel since he has never been wrong about anything.... but then that makes the entire point of the Inquisitors TIE dumb.   A Slightly Earlier version of a ship is virtually the same ship  and really doesn't need a whole new model and separate set of equipment.    And there is little reason for the V1 title in that case as well, since Non-Unique titles are given out as FIXES, and should never be given out when a ship is announced - if its broken to the point of needing a fix/title, then don't release it yet.   

 

  Like - this means we are probably going to get a separate A-Wing from Rebels, an a separate B-Wing, that each have new unique titles incompatible with other things.   

 

  If they are going to make a new ship, and a new expansion, then I would prefer it to be something actually new, especially if they aren't going to allow it to incorporate with the existing versions of that same ship.  If the X1 title actually can't go on the V1, then they shouldn't have even have put Advanced on the card.  (Or ADV.).  

Thats not true, It has also been used in the past to allow a ship to perform in two very different roles; IE the Heavy Scyk

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Since Vorpal Sword says that the X1 title most likely won't be available for the Tie Advanced Prototype, then I'll concede that it is the gospel since he has never been wrong about anything.... but then that makes the entire point of the Inquisitors TIE dumb.   A Slightly Earlier version of a ship is virtually the same ship  and really doesn't need a whole new model and separate set of equipment.    And there is little reason for the V1 title in that case as well, since Non-Unique titles are given out as FIXES, and should never be given out when a ship is announced - if its broken to the point of needing a fix/title, then don't release it yet.   

 

  Like - this means we are probably going to get a separate A-Wing from Rebels, an a separate B-Wing, that each have new unique titles incompatible with other things.   

 

  If they are going to make a new ship, and a new expansion, then I would prefer it to be something actually new, especially if they aren't going to allow it to incorporate with the existing versions of that same ship.  If the X1 title actually can't go on the V1, then they shouldn't have even have put Advanced on the card.  (Or ADV.).

Thats not true, It has also been used in the past to allow a ship to perform in two very different roles; IE the Heavy Scyk

I knew I was forgetting one! Thanks.

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