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Crabbok

Inquisitor's TIE vs TIE Advanced

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We won't know for sure till FFG gives us more on this exciting new miniature.  Till then, I see the argument that literally "TIE Adv" and "TIE Advanced" are two different dial names.  But one must also recognized that Adv. stands for Advanced.

I recognize that in real life.  But that's not the same as game rules.

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Judging by the price of the Inquisitor and comparing that to other PS 8 ace prices for empire I think the points cost will be slightly under the equivalent ps interceptors with the ps 2 being in the 15-17 range.

I'll throw my hat into the guessing game.

 

The Defender has a 7 point gap between Rex (PS8) and Delta (PS1), Between Juno (PS8) and Tempest (PS2) there is a 7 point difference.  The Alpha Interceptor is 18 points, and I just don't see the PS2 Prototype going for less than that.

 

My guess is base cost of 18 to 20.

 

 

It's got to be cheaper than an Alpha. It's essentially an A-Wing.

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If the TIE Adv. Prototype can take the x1 title and ATC FFG has essentially just replaced both Interceptors and the Advanced with one ship. There would be no real reason to take either unless you really wanted a pilot ability.

 

It won't be able to use the x1 title. There will be a FAQ entry to clarify and that will be that.

Edited by WWHSD

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Judging by the price of the Inquisitor and comparing that to other PS 8 ace prices for empire I think the points cost will be slightly under the equivalent ps interceptors with the ps 2 being in the 15-17 range.

I'll throw my hat into the guessing game.

 

The Defender has a 7 point gap between Rex (PS8) and Delta (PS1), Between Juno (PS8) and Tempest (PS2) there is a 7 point difference.  The Alpha Interceptor is 18 points, and I just don't see the PS2 Prototype going for less than that.

 

My guess is base cost of 18 to 20.

 

 

It's got to be cheaper than an Alpha. It's essentially an A-Wing.

 

But it can boost AND barrel roll.  That's going to cost you the same way it did with the Alpha.  Honestly, I'll be shocked if there is more than a 7 or 8 point gap between The Inquisitor and the PS2.  Looking through the ships, that's been a pretty common trend.

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Considering that it lists the ship as TIE Adv. Prototype, I don't think it can take the TIE Advanced x1 title.

 

This is reinforced by the TIE/v1 title being TIE Adv. Prototype only.

Close, but no cigar.  Here's why.  The V1 is the most restrictive title, requiring three words.  TIE, ADVANCED, and PROTOTYPE.   

We have 3 tiers of TIE titles now.... one that simply requires TIE.   One that requires TIE and ADVANCED, and the V1, which requires all three.  The X1 requires only two - TIE and Advanced.  

 

Imagine a title that said "Interceptor Only" - it would by definition go on an M3A AND a TIE Interceptor.  

 

 

 

Considering that it lists the ship as TIE Adv. Prototype, I don't think it can take the TIE Advanced x1 title.

 

This is reinforced by the TIE/v1 title being TIE Adv. Prototype only.

 

This is more than an assumption, this is a solid argument based in facts.

 

But what about the TIE Engine Mk.II card Tie Only?  Does this not suggest that anything with "Tie" in the name can take the card? (it can... this has been confirmed)  Would this same logic not be applied to Advanced?   ;)

 

Yes it should be.  It is obvious.  If they didn't want you to be able to use the X1 title, then they would have but the prototype word BEFORE the Advanced (IMO).  The fact that it's ship named contains the words TIE and ADVANCED, in that order... constitutes the prerequisites to take such a title.  

 

 

The important question is can the inquistors tie take the title card or not?

 

No. The TIE/x1 card is for the TIE Advanced. The TIE Advanced Prototype comes with its own TIE/v1 title.

 

For those who somehow aren't convinced, TIE/x1 is an enormous buff. FFG wouldn't release a new ship that also needs the Raider to be playable.

 

It IS playable right out of the box.  It has it's OWN title, that is more restricive as well, because it is a TIE Advanced Prototype - Only - title, so there is a tradeoff.  If you take the X1 title, you cannot use the V1 title.  

 

 

 

Does the prototypes dial say tie advanced on it? If not it can't use the card.

 

It does!swx40_spread.png

It doesn't. It says TIE Adv. And it's title says TIE Adv. Only.

 

What do you think ADV stands for?  TIE Adventurer?  TIE Advantageous?   Comon now be realistic.  

 

 

I mean it's possible FFG could come out and say that ADV does NOT equal Advanced... but I seriously doubt it.  

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Judging by the price of the Inquisitor and comparing that to other PS 8 ace prices for empire I think the points cost will be slightly under the equivalent ps interceptors with the ps 2 being in the 15-17 range.

I'll throw my hat into the guessing game.

 

The Defender has a 7 point gap between Rex (PS8) and Delta (PS1), Between Juno (PS8) and Tempest (PS2) there is a 7 point difference.  The Alpha Interceptor is 18 points, and I just don't see the PS2 Prototype going for less than that.

 

My guess is base cost of 18 to 20.

 

 

It's got to be cheaper than an Alpha. It's essentially an A-Wing.

 

But it can boost AND barrel roll.  That's going to cost you the same way it did with the Alpha.  Honestly, I'll be shocked if there is more than a 7 or 8 point gap between The Inquisitor and the PS2.  Looking through the ships, that's been a pretty common trend.

 

 

Maybe they cost the same as an Alpha but I can't them costing more. Not having three attack is a big strike against a ship, especially when there are two other 3 attack ships at essentially the same price point.

I didn't think they'd price the Scyk as high as they did either. 

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I think it'll find a place, especially with the inquisitor being a mean 2 range mailer throwing 3 dice; through target lock with tracers out there and all of a sudden if he's followed by other standard TIEs, someone's in for a bad day.

I remain optimistic

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What do you think ADV stands for?  TIE Adventurer?  TIE Advantageous?   Comon now be realistic.  

 

 

 

I mean it's possible FFG could come out and say that ADV does NOT equal Advanced... but I seriously doubt it.  

 

 

I think it is much more likely they come out and say "TIE Advanced Prototype" is not the equivalent to "TIE Advanced" for the purposes of matching titles and upgrades. "TIE Only" was a reasonable way to fit "TIE Fighter, TIE Advanced, TIE Interceptor, TIE Bomber, TIE Punisher, TIE Phantom, TIE Defender, TIE Advanced Protoype. FFG reserves the right to errata this card to include the names of products that have not yet been released that also contain the word TIE in their name" all on one line and keep things simple. 

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What do you think ADV stands for?  TIE Adventurer?  TIE Advantageous?   Comon now be realistic.  

It stands for Advanced.  But the question is whether that's relevant.  The exact letters on the ship's card are different from the letters on the TIE/x1's requirements.

Edited by DarthEnderX

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I think it'll find a place, especially with the inquisitor being a mean 2 range mailer throwing 3 dice; through target lock with tracers out there and all of a sudden if he's followed by other standard TIEs, someone's in for a bad day.

I remain optimistic

 

 

The Inquisitor is awesome. In a lot of ways he's better than having a true 3 attack ship. He's going to be one of the best ships 30 points or under you can put on the table. It's the other guys that I worry will be costed out of the game if the PS 2 costs more than an alpha.

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Considering that it lists the ship as TIE Adv. Prototype, I don't think it can take the TIE Advanced x1 title.

 

This is reinforced by the TIE/v1 title being TIE Adv. Prototype only.

Close, but no cigar.  Here's why.  The V1 is the most restrictive title, requiring three words.  TIE, ADVANCED, and PROTOTYPE.   

We have 3 tiers of TIE titles now.... one that simply requires TIE.   One that requires TIE and ADVANCED, and the V1, which requires all three.  The X1 requires only two - TIE and Advanced.  

 

Imagine a title that said "Interceptor Only" - it would by definition go on an M3A AND a TIE Interceptor.  

 

 

 

Considering that it lists the ship as TIE Adv. Prototype, I don't think it can take the TIE Advanced x1 title.

 

This is reinforced by the TIE/v1 title being TIE Adv. Prototype only.

 

This is more than an assumption, this is a solid argument based in facts.

 

But what about the TIE Engine Mk.II card Tie Only?  Does this not suggest that anything with "Tie" in the name can take the card? (it can... this has been confirmed)  Would this same logic not be applied to Advanced?   ;)

 

Yes it should be.  It is obvious.  If they didn't want you to be able to use the X1 title, then they would have but the prototype word BEFORE the Advanced (IMO).  The fact that it's ship named contains the words TIE and ADVANCED, in that order... constitutes the prerequisites to take such a title.  

 

 

The important question is can the inquistors tie take the title card or not?

 

No. The TIE/x1 card is for the TIE Advanced. The TIE Advanced Prototype comes with its own TIE/v1 title.

 

For those who somehow aren't convinced, TIE/x1 is an enormous buff. FFG wouldn't release a new ship that also needs the Raider to be playable.

 

It IS playable right out of the box.  It has it's OWN title, that is more restricive as well, because it is a TIE Advanced Prototype - Only - title, so there is a tradeoff.  If you take the X1 title, you cannot use the V1 title.  

 

 

 

Does the prototypes dial say tie advanced on it? If not it can't use the card.

 

It does!swx40_spread.png

It doesn't. It says TIE Adv. And it's title says TIE Adv. Only.

 

What do you think ADV stands for?  TIE Adventurer?  TIE Advantageous?   Comon now be realistic.  

 

 

I mean it's possible FFG could come out and say that ADV does NOT equal Advanced... but I seriously doubt it.  

 

Except that from a gameplay/balance standpoint that is idiotic. The X1 title is free and a thousand times better then the V1 so no one would ever take the later over the former. And farther more it would completely undo all the fixing they just did for the standard Advanced because no one would ever take one over one of these because they can do most of what they can do but for cheaper.

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Another reason I am nearly certain that the X1 title WILL be an option for the Prototype, is that they wouldn't have had to make a V1 title otherwise.   The ONLY reason to make a V1 title is to make the X1 a choice and not a mandatory upgrade.  

 

  Again just my opinion.  Thanks for your thoughts guys, you all rock!   

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Another reason I am nearly certain that the X1 title WILL be an option for the Prototype, is that they wouldn't have had to make a V1 title otherwise.   The ONLY reason to make a V1 title is to make the X1 a choice and not a mandatory upgrade.  

 

  Again just my opinion.  Thanks for your thoughts guys, you all rock!   

 

In my opinion the V1 title is there to make a wider variety of EPTs attractive on the ship, not strand pilots without EPTs in the same sort of wasteland that non-EPT Interceptors are in, while keeping the cost on the generics down a little bit, because something like "Whenever you acquire a Target Lock, you may take a free Evade action" doesn't really fit nicely on the pilot cards (especially the ones with their own pilot abilites), and it keeps the design space open if they ever decide to introduce a new title that might not be ship specific or they want to release an additional title specific to this ship. 

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Another reason I am nearly certain that the X1 title WILL be an option for the Prototype, is that they wouldn't have had to make a V1 title otherwise.   The ONLY reason to make a V1 title is to make the X1 a choice and not a mandatory upgrade.  

 

  Again just my opinion.  Thanks for your thoughts guys, you all rock!

It is likely that DarthEnderX will be right. "TIE Adv. Prototype" is not the same thing as "TIE Advanced" as far as strict text matching is concerned--and there's no reason to assume FFG wants to allow the very powerful TIE/x1 title on anything except the TIE Advanced.

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Hrm. Lets assume that the base level pilot is the same cost as an A wing at 17 points. Ok with autothrusters and the title its at twenty and if it is positioned right every attack against it each round will have two auto evades plus at least another two green dice until it spends its evade token then it will have one auto evade plus green dice. This will make it really hard to kill without a swarm and put it at one point under the standard Advanced. Given that the only reason anyone would ever take the normal Advanced is with the X1 title and its extreme dismounted system slot, which makes it muuuch more versatile and gives a number of ways to be kitted out. If you give the Prototype access to this title then you give it all those same options for much cheaper and trade your evade for a boost that lets you take autothusters making it extremely overpower for its cost and once again making the Standard Advanced obsolete this time ironical by its own supposedly inferior prototype.

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Another reason I am nearly certain that the X1 title WILL be an option for the Prototype, is that they wouldn't have had to make a V1 title otherwise.   The ONLY reason to make a V1 title is to make the X1 a choice and not a mandatory upgrade.  

 

  Again just my opinion.  Thanks for your thoughts guys, you all rock!

It is likely that DarthEnderX will be right. "TIE Adv. Prototype" is not the same thing as "TIE Advanced" as far as strict text matching is concerned--and there's no reason to assume FFG wants to allow the very powerful TIE/x1 title on anything except the TIE Advanced.

 

 

It's not even the title that is the concern. The Advanced Targetting Computer should be limited to ONE ship. I mean, there is no debate. You take the X1 over the V1 EVERY time. The ATC is that powerful. Especially on a ship with access to Autothrusters. And does anyone really want the Inquisitor to have access to the ATC? 

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Judging by the price of the Inquisitor and comparing that to other PS 8 ace prices for empire I think the points cost will be slightly under the equivalent ps interceptors with the ps 2 being in the 15-17 range.

I'll throw my hat into the guessing game.

 

The Defender has a 7 point gap between Rex (PS8) and Delta (PS1), Between Juno (PS8) and Tempest (PS2) there is a 7 point difference.  The Alpha Interceptor is 18 points, and I just don't see the PS2 Prototype going for less than that.

 

My guess is base cost of 18 to 20.

 

 

It's got to be cheaper than an Alpha. It's essentially an A-Wing.

 

But it can boost AND barrel roll.  That's going to cost you the same way it did with the Alpha.  Honestly, I'll be shocked if there is more than a 7 or 8 point gap between The Inquisitor and the PS2.  Looking through the ships, that's been a pretty common trend.

 

Barrel Roll is nice but you lose the Evade action which I would call pretty close to a wash, and the A-wing has the Refit dropping it to 15 so 16 feels pretty good (remember Barrel Roll is worth waaay less on a PS 2 compared to a PS8 so that could justify the discount)

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Anyone notice they put a Deadeye upgrade in there?

 

 

Come on FF, it's Wave 8 and it's not like we don't have multiple copies of that card already collecting dust ...

 

(double checks cards)

 

Huh, I only have 3. Apparently not that common. 

 

I do like that they seem to be setting up the V1 as a missile carrier. Looking at it's included upgrades, I look forward to seeing the whole pack. 

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