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Inquisitor's TIE vs TIE Advanced

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Did I miss something in the thread? Why is the acronym being used for "TIE Advanced Prototype"  PAT instead of TAP? Is this some sort of FIFA thing with the French not putting words in the right order?

Edited by WWHSD

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Did I miss something in the thread? Why is the acronym being used for "TIE Advanced Prototype"  PAT instead of TAP? Is this some sort of FIFA thing with the French not putting words in the right order?

 

It's TAP... I just had a moment of dyslexia.  

 

Last night I also had a bout of agnosticism that kept me awake.  I couldn't fall asleep because I just didn't know if there really was a "dog".

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I think this ship might have some interesting uses, but until we know more, debating anything other than the upgrades we know about seems premature. With that in mind, any thoughts on using the inquisitor with a good old fashioned Howl mini-swarm?

Inquisitor w/ predator, v1, autothrusters, and thread chasers

Howlrunner w/swarm tactics

4 academies

It's a fragile list, but getting the target locks off with the thread chasers plus Howl's aura good lead to some serious damage on a low agility ship. In fact, seems like you can take out the Ghost with one salvo if you have some luck with crits. You even have 3 ships firing at PS 8 before lower PS return fire takes out a tie.

In other lists, Inquisitor seems like a great sniper, living at range 3 and loving it while other ships (maybe pair him with a decimator?) do more heavy lifting.

Edit: it's a shame his pilot ability only works with primary weapons. A range 3 procket would be amazing.

Edited by FatherTurin

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Did I miss something in the thread? Why is the acronym being used for "TIE Advanced Prototype"  PAT instead of TAP? Is this some sort of FIFA thing with the French not putting words in the right order?

It's a shame you ladies and gentlemen continue to use that unfortunate acronym.  I encorage you all to yield to the superior TIE Advil.   It stops rebels, dead in their tracks. 

1326528.large.jpg

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I think this ship might have some interesting uses, but until we know more, debating anything other than the upgrades we know about seems premature. With that in mind, any thoughts on using the inquisitor with a good old fashioned Howl mini-swarm?

Inquisitor w/ predator, v1, autothrusters, and thread chasers

Howlrunner w/swarm tactics

4 academies

It's a fragile list, but getting the target locks off with the thread chasers plus Howl's aura good lead to some serious damage on a low agility ship. In fact, seems like you can take out the Ghost with one salvo if you have some luck with crits. You even have 3 ships firing at PS 8 before lower PS return fire takes out a tie.

In other lists, Inquisitor seems like a great sniper, living at range 3 and loving it while other ships (maybe pair him with a decimator?) do more heavy lifting.

Edit: it's a shame his pilot ability only works with primary weapons. A range 3 procket would be amazing.

Target lock steps on the toes of Howl's ability, though. You're not going to get the full benefit of one or the other.

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I think this ship might have some interesting uses, but until we know more, debating anything other than the upgrades we know about seems premature. With that in mind, any thoughts on using the inquisitor with a good old fashioned Howl mini-swarm?

Inquisitor w/ predator, v1, autothrusters, and thread chasers

Howlrunner w/swarm tactics

4 academies

It's a fragile list, but getting the target locks off with the thread chasers plus Howl's aura good lead to some serious damage on a low agility ship. In fact, seems like you can take out the Ghost with one salvo if you have some luck with crits. You even have 3 ships firing at PS 8 before lower PS return fire takes out a tie.

In other lists, Inquisitor seems like a great sniper, living at range 3 and loving it while other ships (maybe pair him with a decimator?) do more heavy lifting.

Edit: it's a shame his pilot ability only works with primary weapons. A range 3 procket would be amazing.

Target lock steps on the toes of Howl's ability, though. You're not going to get the full benefit of one or the other.

 

I agree:

 

Inquisitor+V1+XX-23

Alpha x4

 

Get ready for one hell-of-'a alpha strike!   :D

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I think this ship might have some interesting uses, but until we know more, debating anything other than the upgrades we know about seems premature. With that in mind, any thoughts on using the inquisitor with a good old fashioned Howl mini-swarm?

Inquisitor w/ predator, v1, autothrusters, and thread chasers

Howlrunner w/swarm tactics

4 academies

It's a fragile list, but getting the target locks off with the thread chasers plus Howl's aura good lead to some serious damage on a low agility ship. In fact, seems like you can take out the Ghost with one salvo if you have some luck with crits. You even have 3 ships firing at PS 8 before lower PS return fire takes out a tie.

In other lists, Inquisitor seems like a great sniper, living at range 3 and loving it while other ships (maybe pair him with a decimator?) do more heavy lifting.

Edit: it's a shame his pilot ability only works with primary weapons. A range 3 procket would be amazing.

Target lock steps on the toes of Howl's ability, though. You're not going to get the full benefit of one or the other.

 

Howl is usually the first target. With target locks, the TIE with the best shot on you becomes the most dangerous to kill that round. And the swarm can save the lock for the round Howl dies. One last fully modified round of shooting for the swarm.

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So it is a TIE Advanced, specifically a TIE Advanced Prototype.   Therefore I would argue that it CAN indeed take the TIE X1 Title if it wants to.  

 

If you look at Darth Vader's pilot card, the name of his ship is TIE Advanced.

And the TIE/x1 title says: TIE ADVANCED only

 

The Inquistor's pilot card says he pilots a TIE Adv. Prototype.

We can't assume that a Advanced is the same as Adv.

 

Adv might stand for Adventure!

The TIE Adventure!

 

From what I see of it, the TIE Adventure looks like an Imperial A-Wing. The TIE Advanced had less maneuverability relative to power than the Regular Tie Fighter, because of the shield generators. The TIE Adv. Prototype with the lighter structure may be as maneuverable as a TIE Fighter, but I doubt it will match an Interceptor.

Edited by Vulf

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So it is a TIE Advanced, specifically a TIE Advanced Prototype.   Therefore I would argue that it CAN indeed take the TIE X1 Title if it wants to.

 

If you look at Darth Vader's pilot card, the name of his ship is TIE Advanced.

And the TIE/x1 title says: TIE ADVANCED only

 

The Inquistor's pilot card says he pilots a TIE Adv. Prototype.

We can't assume that a Advanced is the same as Adv.

 

Adv might stand for Adventure!

The TIE Adventure!

Oh God nooooooooooooooooooooooo

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Underestimating the game designers much? I think that FFG is aware of this obvious point that the Tie Advanced prototype is similar to the Tie advanced. Lets be optimistic and wait and see. This could have segnors, wierd abilities etc. IF this shows to be a ship shoehorned in by Disney, because both Rebels and Empire from the Rebels show needs representation, don't buy it.

I would normally support the "don't buy it" action, but it's not the same in this situation.

 

With this game, you'll still see it on the other end of the table. You could refuse to play people with it, but no one wants to do that and you simply can't if you want to do tournaments.

 

I'm personally ok with it. Anything to bring in new players and it's an obvious move I doubt anyone would avoid if they were the disigners. Plus, like you say, I'm sure the designers are going to try to make it different and still fun

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After reading the text on the Twin Ion Engine Mk. II upgrade card, and the new Modifications and Upgrades Reference Card it came with... specifically the: "Ship-Type-Restricted Upgrades"

 

I'm not so sure anymore. Tie Adv. Prototype begines with "Tie Advanced"

 

If Adv. stands for Advanced then by the rules of Thunderdome and the Reference card, it should work.

 

It's not the first time a liberal interpretation of the rules has been used. See the article on the K-wing, SLAM maneuvers, and dropping bombs. Apparently they forgot you have to reveal your maneuver dial to drop some bombs. If revealing maneuver dial no longer entails flipping it over...

 

It would differentiate the Prototype from the First Order Ties.

Edited by Vulf

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Yeah, this becomes an even more confusing ship when you consider it in the context of the very similar TIE/FO. Obviously both were in development at the same time, so it's fair to assume FFG has some particularly wild surprises in store to differentiate both ships from an already crowded design space (Tallon Roll on Prototype?)

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After reading the text on the Twin Ion Engine Mk. II upgrade card, and the new Modifications and Upgrades Reference Card it came with... specifically the: "Ship-Type-Restricted Upgrades"

 

I'm not so sure anymore. Tie Adv. Prototype begines with "Tie Advanced"

 

If Adv. stands for Advanced then by the rules of Thunderdome and the Reference card, it should work.

 

It's not the first time a liberal interpretation of the rules has been used. See the article on the K-wing, SLAM maneuvers, and dropping bombs. Apparently they forgot you have to reveal your maneuver dial to drop some bombs. If revealing maneuver dial no longer entails flipping it over...

 

It would differentiate the Prototype from the First Order Ties.

It's a matching exercise. Adv. might mean advanced, but doesn't say advanced. If it doesn't match letter for letter, as the card states is required, it can't be equipped.

TIE Avd. Prototype doesn't break the rule text. X-Wing vs T-70 X-wing would. It'll need to say something like X-Wing Only Excluding T-70 Variant

Edited by ViscerothSWG

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What the rules text says doesn't really matter. What matters is what FFG intend it to mean. If the common intepretation and what they want it to mean don't line up, they'll FAQ it, and it's fairly clear from closer inspection that the TIE advanced v1 is not meant to be able to equip the TIE/x1 title. I'd wager if they knew they were making the TIE/v1 in Wave 1 they'd have called all the Vader TIEs TIE advanced x1s. As it stands, the ship's called TIE advanced, and it's not possible to write a title card for the Vader TIE only without its name also being included in the Inquistor TIE.

 

The reason the TIE/v1 (the TIE designation of the TIE Advanced Prototype) can't equip the TIE/x1 title is because TIE/x1 is a fix card to the tune of four points. If the v1 could equip TIE/x1, it's autoinclude, and furthermore an autoinclude that requires the Raider. That'd be a pretty dirty business practice and FFG doesn't operate like that.

Furthermore, if it could equip TIE/x1 then it's either cripplingly overpriced out of the box or broken with it equipped.
 

Yeah, this becomes an even more confusing ship when you consider it in the context of the very similar TIE/FO.

 

Who says it's similar? They both have three agility, four health and two attack dice. So does the A-wing. The Scyk and TIE fighter have the same attack, agility and health, but nobody'd argue they're very similar ships. Give a TIE fighter a shield upgrade and it shares the same stats as a TIE/fo, but they're still different ships.

From the little information we know alone, the TIE/fo has a TIE interceptor level green dial and Segnor 2s, and has the new upgrade slot. The TIE/v1 has a missile slot (which means it can take the new Thread Tracers) and a title that lets it evade whenever it target locks, modifying both attack and defence. The TIE/fo costs the same as an A-wing, the cost of the TIE/v1 is completely unknown.

They share an attack value, an agilty value, and the summed total of shields and hull (it's not even in the same distribution) and the TIE name. That's about it.

Edited by Blue Five

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If you look at Darth Vader's pilot card, the name of his ship is TIE Advanced.

And the TIE/x1 title says: TIE ADVANCED only

 

The Inquistor's pilot card says he pilots a TIE Adv. Prototype.

We can't assume that a Advanced is the same as Adv.

 

Adv might stand for Adventure!

The TIE Adventure!

I never liked the names of the TIE Advanced and TIE Phantom.  They don't follow the naming convention of all the other TIEs.

 

Fighter is a thing that fights.

Bomber is a thing that bombs.

Interceptor is a thing that Intercepts.

Defender is a thing that defends.

Punisher is a thing that punishes.

Avenger is a thing that avenges.

Hunter is a thing that hunts.

Aggressor is a thing that aggresses.

Oppressor is a thing that oppresses.

 

TIE Advanced shoulda been called, like, TIE Invader.  After it's most famous pilot.

Edited by DarthEnderX

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Yeah, this becomes an even more confusing ship when you consider it in the context of the very similar TIE/FO. Obviously both were in development at the same time, so it's fair to assume FFG has some particularly wild surprises in store to differentiate both ships from an already crowded design space (Tallon Roll on Prototype?)

 

The boost action (allowing Autothrusters), the built in action economy from the title, and the missile slot is going to be something that sets the two TIEs apart. The FO is bound to be a few points cheaper as well (PS8 Inquisitor is 25 points, PS7 TIE/FO is 20). 

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"Tie Adv. Prototype"

 

intuitively = "Tie Advance Prototype"

 

in game terms = "Tie Adv. Prototype" != "Tie Advance Prototype"

 

it's a simple, if anal check that you get used to with a little high-school programming. Code is very specific and tight game-rules are similar. The ship, very technically, is not a "Tie Advance (x1)" but a "Tie Adv. Prototype." We, the players, associate with the star-wars Tie Advance Prototype. but ito pure gameplay our association is irrelevant

 

 

Tie Adv. Prototype use of the Tie/x1 title is about as likely as rebellion and resistance being distinct, mutually exclusive factions (they are not) unless the Inquisitor running around with what is essentially a SUPER HLC for 26 points sounds like a good idea

 

 

i.t.o gameplay distinction, this thing overlaps mainly with the Tie/Fo but we don't know enough to say how it'll differentiate

 

Tie/fo has the new upgrade slot, of which there has only been one card revealed

 

Tie Adv. Prototype has missiles (apparently a key feature given new mod and Tracer rounds) and can take thrusters, but the dial is completely up in the air

Edited by ficklegreendice

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Whoah now, didn't say that they were the same ship, just that there's another ship coming out in a similar timeframe with comparable capabilities that we didn't know about when the Prototype was announced. Considering people were already whining about 'design space' BEFORE the T/FO, and also considering the dark whispers from the future indicate a few new game mechanics, I was merely speculating that we have not seen the end of interesting distinguishing features for the Prptotype. Sorry if it came off as more negative.

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Whoah now, didn't say that they were the same ship, just that there's another ship coming out in a similar timeframe with comparable capabilities that we didn't know about when the Prototype was announced. Considering people were already whining about 'design space' BEFORE the T/FO, and also considering the dark whispers from the future indicate a few new game mechanics, I was merely speculating that we have not seen the end of interesting distinguishing features for the Prptotype. Sorry if it came off as more negative.

 

I didn't really think it was negative, I hope it didn't come off like I was going off on you. I'm looking forward to see what other Tech Upgrade options come out. 

Edited by WWHSD

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What the rules text says doesn't really matter. What matters is what FFG intend it to mean. If the common intepretation and what they want it to mean don't line up, they'll FAQ it, and it's fairly clear from closer inspection that the TIE advanced v1 is not meant to be able to equip the TIE/x1 title. I'd wager if they knew they were making the TIE/v1 in Wave 1 they'd have called all the Vader TIEs TIE advanced x1s. As it stands, the ship's called TIE advanced, and it's not possible to write a title card for the Vader TIE only without its name also being included in the Inquistor TIE.

 

The reason the TIE/v1 (the TIE designation of the TIE Advanced Prototype) can't equip the TIE/x1 title is because TIE/x1 is a fix card to the tune of four points. If the v1 could equip TIE/x1, it's autoinclude, and furthermore an autoinclude that requires the Raider. That'd be a pretty dirty business practice and FFG doesn't operate like that.

Furthermore, if it could equip TIE/x1 then it's either cripplingly overpriced out of the box or broken with it equipped.

 

Yeah, this becomes an even more confusing ship when you consider it in the context of the very similar TIE/FO.

 

Who says it's similar? They both have three agility, four health and two attack dice. So does the A-wing. The Scyk and TIE fighter have the same attack, agility and health, but nobody'd argue they're very similar ships. Give a TIE fighter a shield upgrade and it shares the same stats as a TIE/fo, but they're still different ships.

From the little information we know alone, the TIE/fo has a TIE interceptor level green dial and Segnor 2s, and has the new upgrade slot. The TIE/v1 has a missile slot (which means it can take the new Thread Tracers) and a title that lets it evade whenever it target locks, modifying both attack and defence. The TIE/fo costs the same as an A-wing, the cost of the TIE/v1 is completely unknown.

They share an attack value, an agilty value, and the summed total of shields and hull (it's not even in the same distribution) and the TIE name. That's about it.

 

 

Engine Upgrade is an Auto-include for the Lambda Shuttle.

Autothrusters are Auto-includes on Interceptors.

 

Neither upgrade comes with any of the Imperial expansions.

 

If you don't play epic games, the Imperial Raider is just a Tie Advanced expansion with a 55 dollar markup! I would think people would be delighted to find more uses for the titles without having to buy 4 total Tie Advanceds.

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Engine Upgrade is an Auto-include for the Lambda Shuttle.

Autothrusters are Auto-includes on Interceptors.

 

Second isn't really true, and the first is definitely untrue. I'd go as far as to say Engine Upgrade is a bad idea on some Lambda setups.

 

If you take it in context (truly autoinclude fix cards), both are completely untrue. Lambdas and Interceptors are completely useable out of the box. Autothrusters is a versus turret buff and Engine Upgrade is a maneuverability buff. Both are usually worth their cost. TIE/x1, however, grants a system slot and is effectively priced at -4 points. For it to be balanced on the TIE/v1, it needs to be four points overpriced deliberately. A new release intentionally crippled in order to push more Raiders.

Furthermore, courtesy of TIE/x1 Accuracy Corrector, if the Prototype can equip TIE/x1 then its own title is almost completely redundant. Target Lock and Evade in your action step for 1 point, or auto double hit and free choice of action for zero?

 

The TIE advanced v1 can equip the TIE/v1 title, not the TIE/x1. This is a simple deduction even if FFG's fairly obvious intent was in doubt.

Edited by Blue Five

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I just wanted to close the loop on this discussion now that official word has been handed down.

 

FAQ Version 4.1.1, P.15

 

TIE/v1

Darth Vader cannot be equipped with the TIE/v1 Upgrade card.

TIE Advanced ships cannot be equipped with the TIE/v1 Upgrade card.

 

TIE/x1

TIE Adv. Prototype ships cannot be equipped with the TIE/x1 Upgrade card.

 

That is all.

Edited by stackeffect

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