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Crabbok

Inquisitor's TIE vs TIE Advanced

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We are just going to have to agree to disagree on a few points here.  The evade token is far superior to a focus token on defense.  It is a GUARANTEED result.

Evade ain't better if you roll two focus results.

 

Mathematically, focus is better on higher agility and evade on lower. I think the crossover point is between 3 and 4 dice.

Evade's better on ships with lower agility because it's more likely they'll roll no focus or roll all evades, which are the two cases where Evade is better.

Focus is better when you roll more than one focus result, which is more common than you'd think.

 

To review my thoughts, I believe the base TAP will be 18 points

 

It'd need a pretty incredible dial to be 18 points. The A-wing is overpriced at 17, trading barrel roll for that evade you value so highly. Given it's likely to have a worse dial than the A-wing, I'd expect it to have a similar cost. Personally I'd reckon 16, given barrel roll is more potent than evade in my personal opinion, especially as this thing is unlikely to be action stacking, but it's not going to be 18 unless it's got some serious dial tricks.

 

And you go a point under 18 and your example drops to 20 points or lower.

Boom. Five of them.

 

Or, assuming your 18 point cost, just drop the Autothrusters. Five of them again.

I just hope FFG gets back to me soon on the support question I sent so we can end this belief in TIE/v1s taking TIE/x1, establish the axiom that TIE/v1 is its only title, and end the distortion that trying to balance a fix card onto a properly priced ship inflicts on the distruction.

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The evade token is far superior to a focus token on defense.  It is a GUARANTEED result.

So is the result from Autothrusters, which can be further supplemented by focus. And on average, evade is only slightly better than focus on defense (for a ship rolling three defense dice). Over a large number of rolls in a large number of games, you'll actually see very little difference between the two.

 

To review my thoughts, I believe the base TAP will be 18 points (as both of us are going off a lot of assumptions here, so it's hard to say what the impact of the X1 title would be on the PAT) with a very similar dial as the TA.  Add AT, X1 and ATC and it is now 21 points.  The same as a Tempest, but without the ability to evade.

First, what if you're wrong and the Prototype comes out cheaper than that? What if the cheapest generic is 17 points, or 16 points, or 15 points?

Second, let's assume you're right and you can have a 21-point Prototype with Autothrusters and an ATC for the same price as a Tempest with Accuracy Corrector. The Prototype has at least no disadvantage in durability (since Autothrusters is very likely to cancel at least 1 hit during a game), and may have an advantage. The Prototype has an advantage on attack, at the cost of maintaining a target lock. The Prototype definitely has an advantage in maneuverability, with native access to barrel roll and boost.

So even at what I'd say is the highest reasonable cost for the Prototype, it outperforms a similarly-priced TIE Advanced. That's a balance problem.

 

I'll pit my 4 Tempest TAs (with room for missiles) against 4 base PATs with a X1 load-out any day.

Really? Four Tempests with Accuracy Corrector and Cluster Missiles makes 100 points. But for the same 100 points, I could also run this:

Cheapest TIE Prototype (18)

Adv. Targeting Computer (1)

TIE/x1 (0)

Autothrusters (2)

Cheapest TIE Prototype (18)

Adv. Targeting Computer (1)

TIE/x1 (0)

Autothrusters (2)

Cheapest TIE Prototype (18)

Adv. Targeting Computer (1)

TIE/x1 (0)

Autothrusters (2)

Inquisitor (25)

Push the Limit (3)

Adv. Targeting Computer (1)

XX-23 S-Thread Trackers (1)

Autothrusters (2)

TIE/x1 (1)

And in fact, that list still has 5 points left over. I could upgrade one of the Prototypes to a Doomshuttle and still have points left over, which would add in some hit points. Instead, maybe I could upgrade one of them to the other unique TIE Prototype pilot (depending on how much it costs), or add in another missile. I've still got options, both in list-building and on the table, while your list is limited to low-PS spam and lives or dies based on whether you can get the Cluster Missiles off and on how much damage they do*.

[*On average, even with Accuracy Corrector, the median and mode against a ship with 3 Agility and no modification is 2 damage per missile.]

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The Inquisitor's TIE is now the TIE Advil. Because we all have a headache as a result of it. Plus now there is no confusion. The X1 title couldn't possibly go on a TIE Advil. Even if it is a TIE Advil Prototype.

Are you being willfully ignorant about context on purpose?

It's not "TIE Advil" any more than it is a "TIE Advanced". It's a "TIE Adv. Prototype". Full stop.

 

It will always be the TIE Advil to me.   In case you haven't noticed there is another threat trying to figure out what we are going to refer to it as.   I have chosen TIE Advil.   You may have noticed that many peopel refer to the Lambda as an Alabaster Space Manatee, or something similar.  TIE Advil is a dual purpose name, in that the ship gives me a headache, and it also starts with ADV.  I assure you however, that I am certainly aware that the letters A, D, and V on the printed card preview are not an endorsement for any specific brand of Ibuprofren.  If that were the case I might have to start calling the X-Wing the "Excedrin-Wing".  TIE Advil shall be it's moniker.   So say we all!

 

 

If one could take the X1 title, they would be giving up the ability to Evade.

You're drastically overestimating the value of an evade token,

 

Unless something else related to the Advil makes an evade token somhow more valuable.   Maybe the other pilot?  Maybe an unspoiled card perhaps?  (Not saying that I expect this, but for purposes of discussion it is worth considering).  So in theory, only for purposes of relative power - If in theory there were a modification that was TIE Advil Only, that allowed an attacker to spend an evade to add 2 crits to his/her attack roll - THEN you might see the tradeoff.   Now back to reality, that isn't likely to happen.   But if it did... well then I guess I might get a free raider somehow!   rofl. 

 

Love you guys BTW.   Good discussion, and some good points being made on all sides.

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Wait a sec. There's a ship in the game that's got the same action bar as the Adverb, the same agility, and 3 red dice that for the sake of argument we'll call the same as the our fantasy TIE Advocate with the X1 title and an ATC.

Given that we're all reasonably sure that 18 points is the most that the Cheapass TIE Andover will cost, is it likely that Fantasy Flight evaluated that the StarViper's extra hit point and excellent dial are worth a minimum of 7 extra points?

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Wait a sec. There's a ship in the game that's got the same action bar as the Adverb, the same agility, and 3 red dice that for the sake of argument we'll call the same as the our fantasy TIE Advocate with the X1 title and an ATC.

Given that we're all reasonably sure that 18 points is the most that the Cheapass TIE Andover will cost, is it likely that Fantasy Flight evaluated that the StarViper's extra hit point and excellent dial are worth a minimum of 7 extra points?

 

Don't forget about the Illicit!  That's worth something too.  Many agree that the Starviper was over cost.  I personally think they should have been 23 points.  This way you could take four with autothrusters.  And yes... I would run that list!

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Honestly I see no reason to take a TIE Advil - assuming it's base ship costs around 18 or 19, (Guessing here basedon pilot ability) when for 18 points you can get an Interceptor, which is a MUCH better ship.  I mean hey, sure you can pay an extra point to gain a title that gives you a free evade when you target lock, but what good is a target lock when you are rolling 2 dice?  Een if the cheap TIE Advil is 17 points, I'd still take an 18 point interceptor for that extra attack die.   An extra die beats a reroll by a longshot. 

 

  Maybe there will be a modification to the Advil called "No longer a Prototype!" that allows it's ship to equip TIE Advanced upgrades and titles - and they'll call it a fix.   Granted there's a lot we don't know about the Advil but it just feels really weak based on what we DO know.  

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The evade token is far superior to a focus token on defense.  It is a GUARANTEED result.

So is the result from Autothrusters, which can be further supplemented by focus. And on average, evade is only slightly better than focus on defense (for a ship rolling three defense dice). Over a large number of rolls in a large number of games, you'll actually see very little difference between the two.

 

To review my thoughts, I believe the base TAP will be 18 points (as both of us are going off a lot of assumptions here, so it's hard to say what the impact of the X1 title would be on the PAT) with a very similar dial as the TA.  Add AT, X1 and ATC and it is now 21 points.  The same as a Tempest, but without the ability to evade.

First, what if you're wrong and the Prototype comes out cheaper than that? What if the cheapest generic is 17 points, or 16 points, or 15 points?

Second, let's assume you're right and you can have a 21-point Prototype with Autothrusters and an ATC for the same price as a Tempest with Accuracy Corrector. The Prototype has at least no disadvantage in durability (since Autothrusters is very likely to cancel at least 1 hit during a game), and may have an advantage. The Prototype has an advantage on attack, at the cost of maintaining a target lock. The Prototype definitely has an advantage in maneuverability, with native access to barrel roll and boost.

So even at what I'd say is the highest reasonable cost for the Prototype, it outperforms a similarly-priced TIE Advanced. That's a balance problem.

 

I'll pit my 4 Tempest TAs (with room for missiles) against 4 base PATs with a X1 load-out any day.

Really? Four Tempests with Accuracy Corrector and Cluster Missiles makes 100 points. But for the same 100 points, I could also run this:

Cheapest TIE Prototype (18)

Adv. Targeting Computer (1)

TIE/x1 (0)

Autothrusters (2)

Cheapest TIE Prototype (18)

Adv. Targeting Computer (1)

TIE/x1 (0)

Autothrusters (2)

Cheapest TIE Prototype (18)

Adv. Targeting Computer (1)

TIE/x1 (0)

Autothrusters (2)

Inquisitor (25)

Push the Limit (3)

Adv. Targeting Computer (1)

XX-23 S-Thread Trackers (1)

Autothrusters (2)

TIE/x1 (1)

And in fact, that list still has 5 points left over. I could upgrade one of the Prototypes to a Doomshuttle and still have points left over, which would add in some hit points. Instead, maybe I could upgrade one of them to the other unique TIE Prototype pilot (depending on how much it costs), or add in another missile. I've still got options, both in list-building and on the table, while your list is limited to low-PS spam and lives or dies based on whether you can get the Cluster Missiles off and on how much damage they do*.

[*On average, even with Accuracy Corrector, the median and mode against a ship with 3 Agility and no modification is 2 damage per missile.]

 

 

First, thank you for agreeing with me that Evade (even if slightly) is mathematically better than Focus.

 

Second, you've changed the rules.  I didn't say I'd fly 4 Tempest against the best list you could put together that just so happens to include a TAP with the x1 title.  If you limited your ship choice to JUST the TAP and HAD to use X1, I would bet a list of TA's with X1 would beat it more times than not... beyond a statistical margin for error/chance.

 

Again, we're having to assume way too much here... beyond the title.  We don't know the dial, or the cost of the three other pilots for the TAP.  My ideas are based on a similar dial for the TAP as a TA and a base cost of 18.  That's what I'm working with.

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Second, you've changed the rules.  I didn't say I'd fly 4 Tempest against the best list you could put together that just so happens to include a TAP with the x1 title.  If you limited your ship choice to JUST the TAP and HAD to use X1, I would bet a list of TA's with X1 would beat it more times than not... beyond a statistical margin for error/chance.

I may have misunderstood your rules, then. Are you saying you'll fly 4 Tempest + Accuracy Corrector + Cluster Missiles against 4 Prototypes + Advanced Targeting Computer + Autothrusters? Even under your assumptions, that's a 100-point list against an 84-point list.

If that's the case then yes, I'd also expect Tempests with AC and missiles to win a slugging match where the opponent agrees not to take anything above PS2 or otherwise do anything about a 16-point handicap.

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The evade token is far superior to a focus token on defense.  It is a GUARANTEED result.

So is the result from Autothrusters, which can be further supplemented by focus. And on average, evade is only slightly better than focus on defense (for a ship rolling three defense dice). Over a large number of rolls in a large number of games, you'll actually see very little difference between the two.

 

To review my thoughts, I believe the base TAP will be 18 points (as both of us are going off a lot of assumptions here, so it's hard to say what the impact of the X1 title would be on the PAT) with a very similar dial as the TA.  Add AT, X1 and ATC and it is now 21 points.  The same as a Tempest, but without the ability to evade.

First, what if you're wrong and the Prototype comes out cheaper than that? What if the cheapest generic is 17 points, or 16 points, or 15 points?

Second, let's assume you're right and you can have a 21-point Prototype with Autothrusters and an ATC for the same price as a Tempest with Accuracy Corrector. The Prototype has at least no disadvantage in durability (since Autothrusters is very likely to cancel at least 1 hit during a game), and may have an advantage. The Prototype has an advantage on attack, at the cost of maintaining a target lock. The Prototype definitely has an advantage in maneuverability, with native access to barrel roll and boost.

So even at what I'd say is the highest reasonable cost for the Prototype, it outperforms a similarly-priced TIE Advanced. That's a balance problem.

 

I'll pit my 4 Tempest TAs (with room for missiles) against 4 base PATs with a X1 load-out any day.

Really? Four Tempests with Accuracy Corrector and Cluster Missiles makes 100 points. But for the same 100 points, I could also run this:

Cheapest TIE Prototype (18)

Adv. Targeting Computer (1)

TIE/x1 (0)

Autothrusters (2)

Cheapest TIE Prototype (18)

Adv. Targeting Computer (1)

TIE/x1 (0)

Autothrusters (2)

Cheapest TIE Prototype (18)

Adv. Targeting Computer (1)

TIE/x1 (0)

Autothrusters (2)

Inquisitor (25)

Push the Limit (3)

Adv. Targeting Computer (1)

XX-23 S-Thread Trackers (1)

Autothrusters (2)

TIE/x1 (1)

And in fact, that list still has 5 points left over. I could upgrade one of the Prototypes to a Doomshuttle and still have points left over, which would add in some hit points. Instead, maybe I could upgrade one of them to the other unique TIE Prototype pilot (depending on how much it costs), or add in another missile. I've still got options, both in list-building and on the table, while your list is limited to low-PS spam and lives or dies based on whether you can get the Cluster Missiles off and on how much damage they do*.

[*On average, even with Accuracy Corrector, the median and mode against a ship with 3 Agility and no modification is 2 damage per missile.]

 

 

First, thank you for agreeing with me that Evade (even if slightly) is mathematically better than Focus.

 

Second, you've changed the rules.  I didn't say I'd fly 4 Tempest against the best list you could put together that just so happens to include a TAP with the x1 title.  If you limited your ship choice to JUST the TAP and HAD to use X1, I would bet a list of TA's with X1 would beat it more times than not... beyond a statistical margin for error/chance.

 

Again, we're having to assume way too much here... beyond the title.  We don't know the dial, or the cost of the three other pilots for the TAP.  My ideas are based on a similar dial for the TAP as a TA and a base cost of 18.  That's what I'm working with.

 

 

The thing that puts Focus over the top is that many times Evade is a wasted action. This is especially true if you have multiple ships that are all taking the evade action. 

 

Assuming that they end up with essentially the same dial, 4 Autothruster X1 TAPs (one of whom is the Inquistor) should take 4 Tempests lunch money any day of the week.

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Wait a sec. There's a ship in the game that's got the same action bar as the Adverb, the same agility, and 3 red dice that for the sake of argument we'll call the same as the our fantasy TIE Advocate with the X1 title and an ATC.

Given that we're all reasonably sure that 18 points is the most that the Cheapass TIE Andover will cost, is it likely that Fantasy Flight evaluated that the StarViper's extra hit point and excellent dial are worth a minimum of 7 extra points?

 

Don't forget about the Illicit!  That's worth something too.  Many agree that the Starviper was over cost.  I personally think they should have been 23 points.  This way you could take four with autothrusters.  And yes... I would run that list!

The StarViper also loses a point of Pilot Skill, if we're getting pernickety. But yeah, ok then. If you've made up your mind this is the hill you want to die on, you do you. :D

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Second, you've changed the rules.  I didn't say I'd fly 4 Tempest against the best list you could put together that just so happens to include a TAP with the x1 title.  If you limited your ship choice to JUST the TAP and HAD to use X1, I would bet a list of TA's with X1 would beat it more times than not... beyond a statistical margin for error/chance.

I may have misunderstood your rules, then. Are you saying you'll fly 4 Tempest + Accuracy Corrector + Cluster Missiles against 4 Prototypes + Advanced Targeting Computer + Autothrusters? Even under your assumptions, that's a 100-point list against an 84-point list.

If that's the case then yes, I'd also expect Tempests with AC and missiles to win a slugging match where the opponent agrees not to take anything above PS2 or otherwise do anything about a 16-point handicap.

 

 

Feel free to add your missile of choice on the PATs as well.  I'd even be willing to go against ANY all TAP list with X1 vs. ANY all TA list with X1 inside 100 points.

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First, thank you for agreeing with me that Evade (even if slightly) is mathematically better than Focus.

Vorpal never said the evade was inferior, what he said was...

You're drastically overestimating the value of an evade token

There's a huge divide between overestimating the value of something and saying it is inferior to something else.

what you actually said was...

The evade token is far superior to a focus token on defense.

Which is not true. It is not far superior to a focus token, it's marginally superior.

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The evade token is far superior to a focus token on defense.  It is a GUARANTEED result.

So is the result from Autothrusters, which can be further supplemented by focus. And on average, evade is only slightly better than focus on defense (for a ship rolling three defense dice). Over a large number of rolls in a large number of games, you'll actually see very little difference between the two.

 

To review my thoughts, I believe the base TAP will be 18 points (as both of us are going off a lot of assumptions here, so it's hard to say what the impact of the X1 title would be on the PAT) with a very similar dial as the TA.  Add AT, X1 and ATC and it is now 21 points.  The same as a Tempest, but without the ability to evade.

First, what if you're wrong and the Prototype comes out cheaper than that? What if the cheapest generic is 17 points, or 16 points, or 15 points?

Second, let's assume you're right and you can have a 21-point Prototype with Autothrusters and an ATC for the same price as a Tempest with Accuracy Corrector. The Prototype has at least no disadvantage in durability (since Autothrusters is very likely to cancel at least 1 hit during a game), and may have an advantage. The Prototype has an advantage on attack, at the cost of maintaining a target lock. The Prototype definitely has an advantage in maneuverability, with native access to barrel roll and boost.

So even at what I'd say is the highest reasonable cost for the Prototype, it outperforms a similarly-priced TIE Advanced. That's a balance problem.

 

I'll pit my 4 Tempest TAs (with room for missiles) against 4 base PATs with a X1 load-out any day.

Really? Four Tempests with Accuracy Corrector and Cluster Missiles makes 100 points. But for the same 100 points, I could also run this:

Cheapest TIE Prototype (18)

Adv. Targeting Computer (1)

TIE/x1 (0)

Autothrusters (2)

Cheapest TIE Prototype (18)

Adv. Targeting Computer (1)

TIE/x1 (0)

Autothrusters (2)

Cheapest TIE Prototype (18)

Adv. Targeting Computer (1)

TIE/x1 (0)

Autothrusters (2)

Inquisitor (25)

Push the Limit (3)

Adv. Targeting Computer (1)

XX-23 S-Thread Trackers (1)

Autothrusters (2)

TIE/x1 (1)

And in fact, that list still has 5 points left over. I could upgrade one of the Prototypes to a Doomshuttle and still have points left over, which would add in some hit points. Instead, maybe I could upgrade one of them to the other unique TIE Prototype pilot (depending on how much it costs), or add in another missile. I've still got options, both in list-building and on the table, while your list is limited to low-PS spam and lives or dies based on whether you can get the Cluster Missiles off and on how much damage they do*.

[*On average, even with Accuracy Corrector, the median and mode against a ship with 3 Agility and no modification is 2 damage per missile.]

 

 

First, thank you for agreeing with me that Evade (even if slightly) is mathematically better than Focus.

 

Second, you've changed the rules.  I didn't say I'd fly 4 Tempest against the best list you could put together that just so happens to include a TAP with the x1 title.  If you limited your ship choice to JUST the TAP and HAD to use X1, I would bet a list of TA's with X1 would beat it more times than not... beyond a statistical margin for error/chance.

 

Again, we're having to assume way too much here... beyond the title.  We don't know the dial, or the cost of the three other pilots for the TAP.  My ideas are based on a similar dial for the TAP as a TA and a base cost of 18.  That's what I'm working with.

 

 

The thing that puts Focus over the top is that many times Evade is a wasted action. This is especially true if you have multiple ships that are all taking the evade action. 

 

Assuming that they end up with essentially the same dial, 4 Autothruster X1 TAPs (one of whom is the Inquistor) should take 4 Tempests lunch money any day of the week.

 

 

While you have two chances to use a focus token (both on offense or defense) it would be no more a "wasted" token if it was just saved for defense.

Again, I'll take that bet.  I would gladly run 4 tempest w/ X1 and missile of choice against 4 TAP generic's with X1 and missile of choice (inside 100 points).  If we're going to start using named pilots, from what I know, I'd ALWAYS take the "best" all TA list with X1 over any all TAP list with X1.  Vader will be the only one with the lunch money in that fight...

Edited by Stone37

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The evade token is far superior to a focus token on defense.  It is a GUARANTEED result.

So is the result from Autothrusters, which can be further supplemented by focus. And on average, evade is only slightly better than focus on defense (for a ship rolling three defense dice). Over a large number of rolls in a large number of games, you'll actually see very little difference between the two.

 

To review my thoughts, I believe the base TAP will be 18 points (as both of us are going off a lot of assumptions here, so it's hard to say what the impact of the X1 title would be on the PAT) with a very similar dial as the TA.  Add AT, X1 and ATC and it is now 21 points.  The same as a Tempest, but without the ability to evade.

First, what if you're wrong and the Prototype comes out cheaper than that? What if the cheapest generic is 17 points, or 16 points, or 15 points?

Second, let's assume you're right and you can have a 21-point Prototype with Autothrusters and an ATC for the same price as a Tempest with Accuracy Corrector. The Prototype has at least no disadvantage in durability (since Autothrusters is very likely to cancel at least 1 hit during a game), and may have an advantage. The Prototype has an advantage on attack, at the cost of maintaining a target lock. The Prototype definitely has an advantage in maneuverability, with native access to barrel roll and boost.

So even at what I'd say is the highest reasonable cost for the Prototype, it outperforms a similarly-priced TIE Advanced. That's a balance problem.

 

I'll pit my 4 Tempest TAs (with room for missiles) against 4 base PATs with a X1 load-out any day.

Really? Four Tempests with Accuracy Corrector and Cluster Missiles makes 100 points. But for the same 100 points, I could also run this:

Cheapest TIE Prototype (18)

Adv. Targeting Computer (1)

TIE/x1 (0)

Autothrusters (2)

Cheapest TIE Prototype (18)

Adv. Targeting Computer (1)

TIE/x1 (0)

Autothrusters (2)

Cheapest TIE Prototype (18)

Adv. Targeting Computer (1)

TIE/x1 (0)

Autothrusters (2)

Inquisitor (25)

Push the Limit (3)

Adv. Targeting Computer (1)

XX-23 S-Thread Trackers (1)

Autothrusters (2)

TIE/x1 (1)

And in fact, that list still has 5 points left over. I could upgrade one of the Prototypes to a Doomshuttle and still have points left over, which would add in some hit points. Instead, maybe I could upgrade one of them to the other unique TIE Prototype pilot (depending on how much it costs), or add in another missile. I've still got options, both in list-building and on the table, while your list is limited to low-PS spam and lives or dies based on whether you can get the Cluster Missiles off and on how much damage they do*.

[*On average, even with Accuracy Corrector, the median and mode against a ship with 3 Agility and no modification is 2 damage per missile.]

 

 

First, thank you for agreeing with me that Evade (even if slightly) is mathematically better than Focus.

 

Second, you've changed the rules.  I didn't say I'd fly 4 Tempest against the best list you could put together that just so happens to include a TAP with the x1 title.  If you limited your ship choice to JUST the TAP and HAD to use X1, I would bet a list of TA's with X1 would beat it more times than not... beyond a statistical margin for error/chance.

 

Again, we're having to assume way too much here... beyond the title.  We don't know the dial, or the cost of the three other pilots for the TAP.  My ideas are based on a similar dial for the TAP as a TA and a base cost of 18.  That's what I'm working with.

 

 

The thing that puts Focus over the top is that many times Evade is a wasted action. This is especially true if you have multiple ships that are all taking the evade action. 

 

Assuming that they end up with essentially the same dial, 4 Autothruster X1 TAPs (one of whom is the Inquistor) should take 4 Tempests lunch money any day of the week.

 

 

While you have two chances to use a focus token (both on offense or defense) it would be no more a "wasted" token if it was just saved for defense.

Again, I'll take that bet.  I would gladly run 4 tempest w/ X1 and missile of choice against 4 TAP generic's with X1 and missile of choice (inside 100 points).  If we're going to start using named pilots, from what I know, I'd ALWAYS take the "best" all TA list with X1 over any all TAP list with X1.  Vader will be the only one with the lunch money in that fight...

 

 

On a low PS ship I don't find myself saving focus tokens for defense. I either get shot at or I don't. If I don't get shot at I can modify my shot. You  can't do the same with evades. In my book that is enough to flip the choice in favor of taking a focus over the marginally better defense of an Evade. At range 3 with Autothrusters (against primary weapons) I don't think that Evade is even better than a focus on a 3 Agility ship.

Excluding the Inquisitor from that fight keeps the most broken example of the X1 title on the TAP from being used. 26 points for a ship that is superior to a 33 point HLC Serissu with Shield Upgrade is silly. The Heavy Scyk is over costed but it's not free HLC over costed.

Edited by WWHSD

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Well anyways... I am excited for the ship in general.

Me too, but I don't think I'll get more then 2 of them.

 

 

The dial is going to determine the number I pick up greatly.  I too can't see myself needing more than 2 of them.

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Well anyways... I am excited for the ship in general. 

You are?   Really?   I mean... it's an A-Wing.   We've got a million of them in game already.  

 

The only reaction that could possibly be deemed fitting...  lol

 

cannonball.gif

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You are?   Really?   I mean... it's an A-Wing.   We've got a million of them in game already.  

 

Yes, but those are flown by terrorists (and lack the barrel roll action).  These are flown by proper pilots, and are therefore superior.

Edited by SeaRaptor

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The Inquisitor's TIE is now the TIE Advil. Because we all have a headache as a result of it. Plus now there is no confusion. The X1 title couldn't possibly go on a TIE Advil. Even if it is a TIE Advil Prototype.

Are you being willfully ignorant about context on purpose?

It's not "TIE Advil" any more than it is a "TIE Advanced". It's a "TIE Adv. Prototype". Full stop.

 

It will always be the TIE Advil to me.   In case you haven't noticed there is another threat trying to figure out what we are going to refer to it as.   I have chosen TIE Advil.   You may have noticed that many peopel refer to the Lambda as an Alabaster Space Manatee, or something similar.  TIE Advil is a dual purpose name, in that the ship gives me a headache, and it also starts with ADV.  I assure you however, that I am certainly aware that the letters A, D, and V on the printed card preview are not an endorsement for any specific brand of Ibuprofren.  If that were the case I might have to start calling the X-Wing the "Excedrin-Wing".  TIE Advil shall be it's moniker.   So say we all!

:rolleyes: A simple "yes" was all that was needed. You didn't need to double down on sour grapes.

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I don't care either way. I'm confident FFG thought this one out and will rule quickly when that bridge needs crossing.

What happens if FFG dictates that you can take X1 on TAP but not ATC? Is that the break point?

On the points scale can an imperial awing cost 17-18 and still see play? The inquisitor looks solid but naked at PS 2 and 18-19 doesn't sound like good value on the lower end to me. As others have said, if they want it to take X1 then they might have overcosted TAP too.

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On the points scale can an imperial awing cost 17-18 and still see play? The inquisitor looks solid but naked at PS 2 and 18-19 doesn't sound like good value on the lower end to me. As others have said, if they want it to take X1 then they might have overcosted TAP too.

I wouldn't fly it at 18-19, either. I don't think it would have been a good idea to price it deliberately with the TIE/x1 title in mind, though: as I said upthread, it risks pushing the TIE Advanced right back into the hole from which it just emerged, and it would also effectively require the Raider to get use out of a brand new fighter expansion--that is, it would mean the ship was designed broken so that it would be compatible with a fix. That's a pretty Byzantine piece of logic to employ when they could get the same effect by just pricing the ship correctly in the first place.

Edited by Vorpal Sword

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What happens if FFG dictates that you can take X1 on TAP but not ATC? Is that the break point?

 

Both cards say TIE advanced only. It would be beyond silly to rule one TIE advanced Only card can go on a ship that isn't the TIE advanced and the other can't.

 

You'd also still make TIE/v1 redundant with Accuracy Corrector.

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