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Crabbok

Inquisitor's TIE vs TIE Advanced

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Wow, these are some of the dumbest discussions I've seen outside MMO forums...

 

Indeed. No one knows for sure. FFG ruling plox. :)

If the TIE/x1 and Adv. Targeting Computer end up being usable on the Prototype, I'll let the forum vote on whether:

(1) I eat an actual hat, on camera, or

(2) I buy Crabbok a Raider.

 

Eating a hat would have to be an edible hat.   Perhaps made out of fondent.  I wouldn't want you to develop some type of felt-based reaction that makes you sick, on my account.  And for a Raider, since I'll already have one the day it comes out, I'd forgo that for an Armada Raider - since I'll likely want multiples of those.  

 

  Not like you are going to be wrong though.  I just want them to change the name if indeed the X1 isn't allowed for the prototype.  Think about some guy showing up to your FLGS with X1 titles on his Prototypes and Twin Ion modifications on them as well... and when he Speaks to you he isn't going to say "I'm flying the Tie Adv Prototype".   What would "Adv" sound like anyway... Advuhh?

I personally will be disappointed with FFG if they rule Adv. is different than Advanced. They could have avoided a FAQ clarification by just calling it the TIE Prototype. I personally have more faith in FFG. There is no way that the TAP wasn't being developed around the same time the X1 title was created. Time will tell though.

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Seriously though, they really need to do something about the way this is worded before it goes to the printers.  I don't have a perfect suggestion at the moment, but if it arrives on store shelves exactly as we see it now, then I would expect a ton of future arguments about the exact same thing.  If the Inquisitor's TIE were simply called "Super Secret TIE" then we'd have no problem.  Well, less of a problem.  

 

Yes, if only the TAP had a more distinct name ... but I think whoever said FFG does not have a free hand in such matters is probably correct.

 

The larger issue is whether title cards can ever apply to more than one ship. Not that FFG needs to definitively answer that to deal with the "TIE Advanced only" ambiguity.

Edited by Manchu

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I'm willing to bet that a title CAN apply to more than one ship.  The same way that the Twin Ion modification says "TIE Only", a title could be deemed "TIE Only".   

  Perhaps a Rogue Squadron title, for example.  Descriptions could be "X-Wing or E-Wing Only", or "Wing only" implying Any ship that has "Wing" in the type.  Or perhaps they'll come out with the new Episode 7 X-Wing and it'll have a title that fits both it AND original X-Wings.  

 

  FFG can do stuff like this pretty easily I think.  I THOUGHT this was an example of it with the Inquisitor.  

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Or perhaps they'll come out with the new Episode 7 X-Wing and it'll have a title that fits both it AND original X-Wings. 

 

This is exactly how the debate came up between myself and ScootyPuffJunior over on Dakka Dakka. It seems to me, if FFG prints pilot cards that say X-Wing T-70 and they come packaged with a title card that says "X-Wing only" then that title would apply both to X-Wing pilots like Luke as well as X-Wing T-70 pilots like (presumably) Poe.

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From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
 

ADV may refer to:

 

My money is in the last one.  TIE Australian Defense Vessel Prototype has a nice ring to it.  But alas, I can't put the X1 title on it.

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This is relevant until an FAQ comes out making it clear that the Prototype cant use the x1 but at the moment it can.

Modification or Title they both have the same rules as detailed in the FAQ. I cannot find anyway detailing what is a specific ship type.

TIE (Not Specific)

   TIE ADVANCED (was but now not specific)

      TIE ADV. PROTOTYPE (specific at the moment, unless they release a mk2 probably not)

 

   I know people think because it doesn't have the full word but if you read the article it does say it is an ADVANCED so there is no doubt. And if we need to go by the precise letters on the card then the TWIN ION ENGINE can only go on a TIE with no other words on the ship type. I don't see how an acronym is wrong if whole new words can be added on to the TIE only mod?

 

   Yes we are going around in circles and there will probably be a FAQ before or with the release clearing this up but just in case there isn't it is actually clear now.

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Huh? Dials don't come into it.

 

Can a TAP use a TIE Advanced dial because TIE/x1 says "TIE Advanced only"? No more so than a TIE Fighter can use a TIE Interceptor dial because TIE Mk II says "TIE only."

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I know people think because it doesn't have the full word but if you read the article it does say it is an ADVANCED so there is no doubt.

Preview articles are not rules text.

IYes we are going around in circles and there will probably be a FAQ before or with the release clearing this up but just in case there isn't it is actually clear now.

It's perfectly clear right now to me, too, but you don't like my conclusion. As I said upthread, "Adv." is not the same thing as "Advanced", and it won't become the same thing no matter how many times you (or anyone else) claim it is.

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Wow amazing you are right "the dial for each type of ship is unique" so there is the rule showing that the x1 is only specific to the TIE ADVANCED and vice versa with v1 on the PROTOTYPE. Long thread sorry about my confusion until now.

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Well again, dials don't come into it. There is no basis in the rules for a ship using any dial unless that dial is restricted to a certain ship type. There is a rule to that effect about title cards, however.

Edited by Manchu

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Also, for everyone's reference, here's the relevant paragraph from the "Modifications and Upgrades" reference card that comes with the TIE Punisher:

Ship-Type-Restricted Upgrades

Some Upgrade cards are labeled "TIE only." Cards with these labels can only be equipped to a ship whose name begins with "TIE" (for example, "TIE fighter" or "TIE punisher").

So there's a specific rule for what "TIE only" means, separate from other "[ship type] only" upgrades.

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Huh? Dials don't come into it.

 

Can a TAP use a TIE Advanced dial because TIE/x1 says "TIE Advanced only"? No more so than a TIE Fighter can use a TIE Interceptor dial because TIE Mk II says "TIE only."

 

It is the logical extension of this arguement. It was my personal favorite arguement during the sillyness of whether or not Vader could take the X1 title. 

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@Sithborg:  It's not the logical extension of the argument because there is no rule regarding dials analogous to the rule regarding modifications and upgrades.

 

@VorpalSword: Seems like that rule actually gives "TIE only" as an example of a "Ship-Type-Restricted Upgrade" (assuming that is a quotation rather than something you made up). Therefore "TIE" is a kind of ship type.

Edited by Manchu

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My argument is (a) RAW is ambiguous as to whether TAP pilots can take the TIE/x1 title and (b) to make it clear as a matter of RAW (as opposed to any of our opinions about RAI) there needs to be either a specific rule that TAP pilots cannot take it or a more general rule that title cards only apply to one model.

 

Separately, I don't believe FFG intended TAP pilots to take the TIE/x1 title. And I hope FFG does not write a rule that title cards only apply to one model, as that seems unnecessarily limiting on future design.

Edited by Manchu

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Also, for everyone's reference, here's the relevant paragraph from the "Modifications and Upgrades" reference card that comes with the TIE Punisher:

 

Ship-Type-Restricted Upgrades

Some Upgrade cards are labeled "TIE only." Cards with these labels can only be equipped to a ship whose name begins with "TIE" (for example, "TIE fighter" or "TIE punisher").

So there's a specific rule for what "TIE only" means, separate from other "[ship type] only" upgrades.

 

Now it is really clear that the proto cant use the x1 with this information.

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Not at all. A rule saying "TIE" is a ship type for the purposes of the modifications and titles rule doesn't in any way preclude that "TIE Advanced" is also a ship type for the same purposes.

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Not at all. A rule saying "TIE" is a ship type for the purposes of the modifications and titles rule doesn't in any way preclude that "TIE Advanced" is also a ship type for the same purposes.

It does set the precedent that anything short of a full name match wiil require a rule though.

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