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Simon Retold

The Move Power in Force and Destiny. Ranged Combat Check?

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In Edge of the Empire (and - if I'm not mistaken - the Force and Destiny Beta), the Move power required a Discipline roll, but in the Force and Destiny Core Rule Book, the Control upgrade for Move asks for a ranged combat check. This is fine, I think... except that I don't find anywhere that defines exactly what kind of ranged combat check is supposed to be made. Ranged (Light)? Ranged (Heavy)? Something else?

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You're correct, it's been Discipline since EotE, and through FaD Beta (and all the published updates). I thought it was particularly odd as well when I flipped through the book. I would say they forgot to just slip in "using Discipline" or something in the various text blocks, but even things like Inquisitor made the change to just being a "ranged combat check".

 

I'd personally recommend just keeping it using Discipline since even in the FaD Beginner Game, that was the skill to use, and it makes more sense than the skills you use when you're manually throwing something by hand or firing guns of various sizes.

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In the description of the Discipline skill in the Skills chapter, it states that Discipline is the skill used to use the Force to throw objects at people (it's in the second bullet point).

 

As for why it's not in the writeup for the Move power itself, I'm going to guess it was simply an editing oversight.

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For the the purpose of Move,  Discipline replaces the (Ranged(XXXXX)) Skill when making a ranged attack... All the rule is saying is use the ranged combat rules when making that attack.

 

They did no need to repeat the Discipline Rules in the move write up, but i concur it was probably an editing error. 

Edited by Atraangelis

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So the silhouette determines difficulty. Does that mean silhouette 0 has no purple difficulty dice? And silhouette 3 would have 3 purple difficulty dice? If that's not correct anyone know the answer and where it is found?

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The use of Discipline to attack is detailed in Force and Destiny page 283 in the insert titled "Resisting Force Power Checks."

 

"The skills used in the check are up to the GM and the players involved, and they depend on the circumstances of the check.  Generally, the attacking character can default to using the Discipline skill, though in some cases, other skills may make sense.  An opposed check involving the Seek power, for example, might have the attacking character use Vigilance, whereas a check involving the use of Influence in a social setting could use Deception or Charm."

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The use of Discipline to attack is detailed in Force and Destiny page 283 in the insert titled "Resisting Force Power Checks."

 

"The skills used in the check are up to the GM and the players involved, and they depend on the circumstances of the check.  Generally, the attacking character can default to using the Discipline skill, though in some cases, other skills may make sense.  An opposed check involving the Seek power, for example, might have the attacking character use Vigilance, whereas a check involving the use of Influence in a social setting could use Deception or Charm."

This is one of the best things about this system, the ability to use different Skills for the same situation. All you need to do is adjust the results a bit to fit the Skill used and you get a richer story.

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Agreed FuriousGreg.  It's really cool with resisting the Force as well.  For example someone is trying to use Move to pull you to them and you don't want to go, you could tell your GM you want to resist with Willpower and Discipline or if you were more physically built you could resist with Brawn and Resilience.

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Agreed FuriousGreg.  It's really cool with resisting the Force as well.  For example someone is trying to use Move to pull you to them and you don't want to go, you could tell your GM you want to resist with Willpower and Discipline or if you were more physically built you could resist with Brawn and Resilience.

Or, if you're trying to fly away, your Agility and Piloting! In total agreement that it's a delightful system.

Hmm, I just thought about a droid using Intellect and Computers to resist Move. Basically, they're fiddling with their own programming to "boost" themselves. (This is kind of a joke, but the more I think about it I might allow it for a physically "wimpy" droid)

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So me and ma homies been playin for a while and one homie says he's gonna force hurl his lightsaber at an enemy(force move is maxed). So his roll would be: his force rating(3 force dice) and his discipline roll(3 yellow 1 green)? The dificulty bein what ever sillouhet(0 cause its hand sized thing=0 purple). Also could he use force minipulation at the same time to keep his saber on to gain lightsaber qualities.

the main question realy is, for ranged combat check, is ma homei supposed to use discipline for greens and yellows or should he be using like lightsaber check or some other ****? Cause it sound to me like he be tryin to use saber throw without having to go into like ataru striker tree. Can you use force move to replace saber throw?

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Now I'm confused. It's harder to hit a stormtrooper in the face at medium range with a speeder than a thermal detonator?

 

A little green guy said "Size matters not."

Edited by orcface999

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silthezilla, on 21 Nov 2015 - 9:02 PM, said:silthezilla, on 21 Nov 2015 - 9:02 PM, said:

So me and ma homies been playin for a while and one homie says he's gonna force hurl his lightsaber at an enemy(force move is maxed). So his roll would be: his force rating(3 force dice) and his discipline roll(3 yellow 1 green)? The dificulty bein what ever sillouhet(0 cause its hand sized thing=0 purple). Also could he use force minipulation at the same time to keep his saber on to gain lightsaber qualities.

the main question realy is, for ranged combat check, is ma homei supposed to use discipline for greens and yellows or should he be using like lightsaber check or some other ****? Cause it sound to me like he be tryin to use saber throw without having to go into like ataru striker tree. Can you use force move to replace saber throw?

 

Since the Shien Expert specialization (and maybe other specializations) have a talent call saber throw, I will not allow someone without it to throw his lightsaber with Move since it make the talent useless.

Edited by vilainn6

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Now I'm confused. It's harder to hit a stormtrooper in the face at medium range with a speeder than a thermal detonator?

 

A little green guy said "Size matters not."

To someone like Yoda with a lot of discipline. Size matters not. But to the less disciplined it matters. 

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I think the important part of this game system is the storytelling aspect.  You can use different approaches to produce the same effects.  If your player wants to use Move to throw his lightsaber, I'd let him... but I'd base the damage on the power and object size, regardless of whether the lightsaber is on or not.  This way he still gets the coolness factor of "sweet I threw my lightsaber and took down that stormtrooper" but legit getting the talent from a tree will still produce superior results.  (In fact throwing any of the things he is capable of with the maxed power will produce superior results.)

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So me and ma homies been playin for a while and one homie says he's gonna force hurl his lightsaber at an enemy(force move is maxed). So his roll would be: his force rating(3 force dice) and his discipline roll(3 yellow 1 green)? The dificulty bein what ever sillouhet(0 cause its hand sized thing=0 purple). Also could he use force minipulation at the same time to keep his saber on to gain lightsaber qualities.

the main question realy is, for ranged combat check, is ma homei supposed to use discipline for greens and yellows or should he be using like lightsaber check or some other ****? Cause it sound to me like he be tryin to use saber throw without having to go into like ataru striker tree. Can you use force move to replace saber throw?

In answer to your main question, it would be a Discipline check rather than lightsabre because lightsabre skill is about the swordsmanship, not really using it as a ranged weapon, and it's Discipline rather than Ranged (Light) because you're not really throwing it with your physical skills and strength, but your skill and power with the Force. The Discipline skill entry in F&D says to use it for attacking with the Move power if you need further rules support for this.

It's a Force Power check so you would roll Force Rating + normal Discipline roll, so you're correct in that.

The 5 damage is based around the idea of being hurt by impact. You as GM could rule that a thrown object is inherently dangerous in some way (for example, a lightsabre) and set the damage higher if you wished. I would be cautious doing that because the next thing you know is the character is carrying around bandoliers full of knives and flinging them around like crazy. Of course that's not really much worse than a blaster rifle, so it's up to you.

Note, it's subtle and easily overlooked but the ranged attack is not an Opposed roll as often happens when you use a Force power against someone, because it is already a Combat Check and these do not become Opposed. If you were to use Move directly on an opponent, e.g. by throwing them into a wall, then it would be an Opposed roll at the GM's discretion, like if they were a Nemesis or another PC.

As to the Shien talent for called "Sabre Throw", this lets you do the same but it's better because it costs fewer pips to activate the power and the base damage will be that of the lightsabre. Also, for a single pip you can have the lightsabre return to your hand. Just wait until your homie tries their Move trick against an Inquisitor and the Inquisitor wont give the lightsabre back. ;)

Hope this helped!

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Now I'm confused. It's harder to hit a stormtrooper in the face at medium range with a speeder than a thermal detonator?

 

A little green guy said "Size matters not."

I think the idea is that with the speeder, it wont be flying in a neatly controlled straight line like the thermal detonator, but is a giant tumbling flying motorbike that is harder to aim. Of course if you're a little green guy, you have enough dice to make that speeder fly like a baseball anyway, so I guess to him it's probably true. ;)

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Mornmist, on 23 Nov 2015 - 3:55 PM, said:

I think the important part of this game system is the storytelling aspect.  You can use different approaches to produce the same effects.  If your player wants to use Move to throw his lightsaber, I'd let him... but I'd base the damage on the power and object size, regardless of whether the lightsaber is on or not.  This way he still gets the coolness factor of "sweet I threw my lightsaber and took down that stormtrooper" but legit getting the talent from a tree will still produce superior results.  (In fact throwing any of the things he is capable of with the maxed power will produce superior results.)

 

Of course you can do it like this but it should never be as effective as the talent. Let also not forget the lightsaber in your case will also suffer the total damage, so it should break or malfunction after the throw. 

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On the topic of Move and throwing things, I've been mulling over a couple of houserule ideas to try and tame down some of the worst abuses; could y'all let me know what you think?

First off, I was thinking of making the difficulty of the throw be the higher of that for the range or the silhouette, and the smaller number being the upgrades (so a silhouette 3 object being thrown at medium range would be [C][C][D], while a silhouette 0 being thrown at short range would just be [D]); the idea is not only do you have to have the mental strength to move the object, you have to have the focus to throw it with speed and precision.

Secondly, I was thinking of adding a cost of 1 Force Point to enable throwing an object, representing generating the "oomph" needed to accelerate the object from the standard "slow and deliberate" speed to "fast enough to cause injury".

Thoughts? Suggestions? Am I simply off my rocker?

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