Highborn Mechanicus Hierophant Psyker aka "Gamebreaker"

[Alex Cube 5]

Silly as it may sound, still a perfectly legal character concept, and extremely allaround powerful also.

Per RAW:

Can outperform any other character in social interaction four to five times per game session by spending a fate point and getting auto-success with WPB degrees of success on Charm/Command/Intimidate tests no matter how hard the test actually is, thanks to mechanicus background has more access (+20 to +40 to tests depending on base availability) to cybernetics and the rarer they are the bigger the bonus, meaning high-end cybernetics like Cerebral Implants and Synthmuscle Grafts are much more easier to get, plus possibly the best starting gear there is in terms of rarity which means in can be traded for whatever needed, as Psyker has access to cheaper Willpower advances that will do actually even more by adding to social interaction thanks to WPB degrees of success thing mentioned earlier beyond the benefits of "just being a Psyker", and when character screws up he pays less Influence for that, meaning he is probably the first one to get enough Influence to become an Inquisitor in the long run, also meaning having the highest "buying capability" to get additionaly buffed up by some good gear.

 

Add Infused Knowledge talent as cherry on top and there You have it -- a perfect... gamebreaker

 

Any thoughts on this matter?

[Skarsnik38 100]

The pysker bit is the weirdest part of that combination. The rest of it is still explainable by fluff. Perhaps someone bred and raised by the ad mech specifically to represent them in business dealings with nobles and other high class members of the Imperium since regular tech priests can be very unsettling.

Not sure where you're getting the "+20 to +40 to tests depending on base availability" from. The background ability  makes bionics two steps easier to acquire. That is the equivalent to +20 always. A near unique item would become very rare (-50 becomes -30) a very rare item becomes scarce (-30 becomes -10) a scarce bionic becomes common (-10 becomes +10). Always a +20 bonus.

There is a pretty huge fluff downside to taking the psyker elite advance you didn't factor in. This character would not be sanctioned so if he got exposed as a psyker before becoming an inquisitor he would be screwed. Although I suppose if you gamed it and just bought psyker to get the aptitude and never bought any powers you might get around this mostly. 

His big downside seems to be that he likely won't be good in combat with only offense and toughness and he'll have problems with the perception based investigation stuff.

Its definitely a cool build and probably one of the best ways to build a character to eventually become an inquisitor but I don't know if I'd go so far as to call it game breaking.

[Utherix 31]

It's a really good combo. I don't really see the downside, other than that it's impossible to roleplay. You can't be all those things and not be insane.

 

You're still capped by experience though. In practice you probably won't be any more strong or successfully than a more directed approach just due to that.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Utherix

[Magnus Grendel 11,674]

The most important downside is that if you have the Psyker Elite Advance and aren't Adeptus Telepathica Astra, you're not a Sanctioned Psyker.

 

Which seriously impacts your ability to use your influence openly, because anyone who 'know who you are' (an important element of using influence) may know you're an unsanctioned psyker and subject to summary termination by the Ordo Hereticus.

 

 

It is extremely powerful, but then all of the character bonuses are good. As Skarsnik38 notes, you've essentially built a pure fellowship test character - which is great but no different to dealing with Slaaneshi characters in Black Crusade. Sooner or later, they're going to end up in a fight, and that's when the Agri World Mutant Assassins come into play, with their space-redneck accents and ridiculous damage on the charge (Brutal Charge [2] + Unnatural Strength [1] + Sure Kill on a Great Weapon racking up 2D10+7 damage or more straight out of the box).

 

Breeding Counts is good, but it's only insurance against screwing up (or, I guess, spending influence on really important stuff).

 

Replace the Weak Flesh is very, very good but is incredibly specific - yes, you can make a fearsome character by loading him out with augmetics, but 'buying' one means you're in surgery for days and arguably out of commission for weeks (re)learning how to use major parts of your body... The Administratum version, Master of Paperwork, is not as dramatic but it's a **** sight more flexible because you can use it for guns, hired minions, etc.

 

Sway The Masses is really powerful as a narrative tool. I would always suggest having at least one person with this in a party. On the other hand, is it really any less awesome than the Seeker's Nothing Escapes My Sight (a.k.a. The-Heretics-Are-Over-There, Investigation-Over). Remember that a charm test isn't mind control; anyone waving their hands in front of some Tempestus Scion's visor muttering "these are not the servitors you're looking for, move along" is in for an unpleasant wakeup call.

 

Also, since you're getting it as a straight-up Elite Advance, rather than by taking the Mystic role, the GM is much more justified in saying "no", just the same as he is to someone wanting to become an Inquisitor - which, as an additional comment, is going to be quite hard to do; the Adeptus Mechanicus, as a rule, are rarely elevated to Inquisitors due to a conflict of loyalty with Mars (it's the same reason Techmarines are a breed apart in marine chapters and aside from the Master of the Forge, don't have any place in a chapter's command hierarchy).

 

 

 

 

[Lynata 2,228]

The pysker bit is the weirdest part of that combination. The rest of it is still explainable by fluff. 

 

Technically speaking ... progeny of illegal Magos Biologis subfaction experiments?

 

yes, you can make a fearsome character by loading him out with augmetics, but 'buying' one means you're in surgery for days and arguably out of commission for weeks (re)learning how to use major parts of your body...

 

That doesn't really sound like a disadvantage to me, considering that the other players are unlikely to continue gaming without you. In such cases, I deem it likely the GM would simply adjudicate downtime for everyone.

 

However, in theory it does not have to be -- the GM could indeed "force" such a player to roll up a new temp character for the meantime. Or perhaps even play a *shudder* Reinforcements character.

[Magnus Grendel 11,674]

That doesn't really sound like a disadvantage to me, considering that the other players are unlikely to continue gaming without you. In such cases, I deem it likely the GM would simply adjudicate downtime for everyone.

 

However, in theory it does not have to be -- the GM could indeed "force" such a player to roll up a new temp character for the meantime. Or perhaps even play a *shudder* Reinforcements character.

 

I was more meaning that it's something that can only be done in downtime between missions, rather than Master of Paperwork, which could be used between one session and another, or mid-game, to acquire a heavy weapon or some disposable goons.

 

That said, one use for reinforcements is supposed to be for times whilst a player is hospitalised (more with 'recovering from critical injury' in mind than 'having cybernetics fitted', I assume, but it's basically no different). I have to admit to not having much experience with generic reinforcement characters, but since you can get a DH starting character with a thousand extra XP 'on loan' for a couple of points of influence, it doesn't sound that bad - is there a reason for the shudder?

 

 

[Lynata 2,228]

I was more meaning that it's something that can only be done in downtime between missions, rather than Master of Paperwork, which could be used between one session and another, or mid-game, to acquire a heavy weapon or some disposable goons.

 

Ah! Gotcha - that makes sense.

 

is there a reason for the shudder?

 

Hmmh. I suppose it is merely disappointment - the name "Reinforcements" made it sound like something bigger rather than a single dude jumping down from the sky to save the day. Pseudo-NPCs who are more powerful than the players' original characters sounds like a very cheesy concept to begin with (similar to so-called GMPCs), and I would have much preferred squads of auxiliaries like security enforcers or PDF for the PCs to commandeer for assistance.

 

At the end of the day, the whole concept of Reinforcements is nothing that the group could not have done by themselves. I'm not really convinced you actually need special rules for this.

 

But I admit I'm also a bit miffed that someone apparently thought a Battle Sister Canoness is less impressive than a random rank and file Deathwatch Marine. Not really surprised, at this point, it just means I look at the whole system with an even more critical eye than perhaps warranted.

I also still think it's rather silly that either of them would show up alone, too.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Lynata

[Magnus Grendel 11,674]

Hmmh. I suppose it is merely disappointment - the name "Reinforcements" made it sound like something bigger rather than a single dude jumping down from the sky to save the day. Pseudo-NPCs who are more powerful than the players' original characters sounds like a very cheesy concept to begin with (similar to so-called GMPCs), and I would have much preferred squads of auxiliaries like security enforcers or PDF for the PCs to commandeer for assistance.

 

 

That's actually the one use we've had for them to date. The "what the hell!" brigade of Reinforcement Characters (like the Canoness) are there because they can't actually be made using the normal Reinforcement Character method of a PC with XP spent on them, no matter how much you spend, because you can't buy stuff like Unnatural Toughness.

 

The one time we did use it, it was the PCs (who are a fairly investigative/subtlety/heist team) going "oh, bugger it" and having the =][= put through a vox-call to the local Sanctionary watch house; for the next mission, the players were subbed out for 3000 XP Hive World/Adeptus Arbites/Warriors with assault shotguns. Definitely the influence spent....

[Lynata 2,228]

Oh, no, I did not mean "replacement characters" at all, but rather a squad of NPCs seconded to the player characters. With rules that simulate squad-based combat, and where these reinforcements' primary role is to support the PCs rather than replace them.

 

A bit like a party version of Only War Comrades, if you will. A bunch of NPCs laying down suppressive fire to debuff the enemy, or who set up 1-2 heavy weapons to deal with a specific threat, or who can be the cannonfodder to die in your place.

 

And that's just for the mechanical effect! Needless to say, in terms of narrative presence a squad of enforcers would also be very useful to cordon off an area, or arrest a larger number of suspects, or to use as guards/sentries, or simply for intimidation. Transportation would be another area where such a feature could come in handy, assuming you are requisitioning a vehicle alongside with a bunch of troopers.

 

[...] because you can't buy stuff like Unnatural Toughness

 

At the same time, though, why would you have to?

Edited July 21, 2015 by Lynata

[Magnus Grendel 11,674]

Well - for creating marines (whether they should have the trait or not is a seperate issue). At the same time, the same statment could apply to traits like Temple Assassin or unique items of wargear, but broadly speaking, 'Traits' are distinct from talents in that there's no way to buy them if you don't have them by default. Expect a putative Ordo Xenos book to be big on reinforcements for this reason.

 

And no, I'd draw no distinction from the 'recruit a squad of dudes' to any other requisition. I only use reinforcements when the players aren't going themselves (it makes sense in my brain as they're losing kudos by not leading from the front)...

[Alex Cube 5]

Not sure where you're getting the "+20 to +40 to tests depending on base availability" from. The background ability  makes bionics two steps easier to acquire. That is the equivalent to +20 always. A near unique item would become very rare (-50 becomes -30) a very rare item becomes scarce (-30 becomes -10) a scarce bionic becomes common (-10 becomes +10). Always a +20 bonus.

There is a pretty huge fluff downside to taking the psyker elite advance you didn't factor in. This character would not be sanctioned so if he got exposed as a psyker before becoming an inquisitor he would be screwed. Although I suppose if you gamed it and just bought psyker to get the aptitude and never bought any powers you might get around this mostly. 

His big downside seems to be that he likely won't be good in combat with only offense and toughness and he'll have problems with the perception based investigation stuff.

The first is my miscalculation, thanks for correcting. Now about how to avoid being screwed for not being sanctioned -- You nailed it -- just don't pick any advances until You get to be Inquisitor and although technically a psyker, fluff-wise You're super weak latent psyker so unless You run into some monodominant Inquisitors that won't be an issue.

About being weak in combat I would strongly disagree -- even assuming You have 25 both in WS and BS with right implants and gear only that can go up to WS40 (+10 for BestQuality, +5 Custom Grip) and +5 to damage (+1 for BestQuality, +4 due to BQ Synthmuscles) and BS60 (+10 MIU, +10 Targeter, +10 Scope, +5 Custom Grip), while having +2 to +4 "extra" AP due to Subskin Armour/Bionic Heart/Cranial Armour, having Prosanguine which is only accessable by characters with mechanicus implants (AdMech background) that makes a character heal between battles at the speed of average FPS protagonist (read: near instantly), not even saying that if in further supplements there's gonna be something like Mechanicus Assimilation talent in DH1/BC/RT (gives You Machine trait) this character will be able to take it.

Now about perception and investigation -- for perception You take Auger Arrays and Bionic Senses (+40 to Awareness test +Re-Roll if failed in total), and about investigation You do forget that the only skills that can't be used untrained are specialist skills (those who have sub-divisions like Lore skills), with Infused Knowledge You have all Common and Scholastic Lore skills (and possibly have crazy bonuses to it like +40 with right augmetics), and everything else can be kept in check with high enough stats alone (~45) thanks to the fact that You get +60 to stats with only two implants necessary -- Cortex Implants and Synthmuscle Grafts that is 60 points You can spend elsewhere, and then You still have at least three cheap characteristic advances.

 

You're still capped by experience though. In practice you probably won't be any more strong or successfully than a more directed approach just due to that.

Didn't understand what did You mean about "capped by experience".

 

It is extremely powerful, but then all of the character bonuses are good. As Skarsnik38 notes, you've essentially built a pure fellowship test character - which is great but no different to dealing with Slaaneshi characters in Black Crusade. Sooner or later, they're going to end up in a fight, and that's when the Agri World Mutant Assassins come into play, with their space-redneck accents and ridiculous damage on the charge (Brutal Charge [2] + Unnatural Strength [1] + Sure Kill on a Great Weapon racking up 2D10+7 damage or more straight out of the box).

Breeding Counts is good, but it's only insurance against screwing up (or, I guess, spending influence on really important stuff).

Replace the Weak Flesh is very, very good but is incredibly specific - yes, you can make a fearsome character by loading him out with augmetics, but 'buying' one means you're in surgery for days and arguably out of commission for weeks (re)learning how to use major parts of your body... The Administratum version, Master of Paperwork, is not as dramatic but it's a **** sight more flexible because you can use it for guns, hired minions, etc.

Sway The Masses is really powerful as a narrative tool. I would always suggest having at least one person with this in a party. On the other hand, is it really any less awesome than the Seeker's Nothing Escapes My Sight (a.k.a. The-Heretics-Are-Over-There, Investigation-Over). Remember that a charm test isn't mind control; anyone waving their hands in front of some Tempestus Scion's visor muttering "these are not the servitors you're looking for, move along" is in for an unpleasant wakeup call.

Also, since you're getting it as a straight-up Elite Advance, rather than by taking the Mystic role, the GM is much more justified in saying "no", just the same as he is to someone wanting to become an Inquisitor - which, as an additional comment, is going to be quite hard to do; the Adeptus Mechanicus, as a rule, are rarely elevated to Inquisitors due to a conflict of loyalty with Mars (it's the same reason Techmarines are a breed apart in marine chapters and aside from the Master of the Forge, don't have any place in a chapter's command hierarchy).

About having no fighting and/or investigation capabilities -- adressed earlier, and although there is virtually nothing stopping Assassin You portrayed to take most of that stuff, for this character will be easier to get all that stuff. Master of Paperwork is good but as addressed earlier it doesn't give You mechanicus implants meaning loosing some very tasty benefits as discussed earlier (Prosanguine is only one of them, actually). With Nothing Escapes My Sight  it's only possible to pass Awareness and Inquiry skill checks, not Scrutiny and Interrogation, so I would disagree on it being OP

 

Then again I have to say that this character is Noble-class (Highborn) AND has Adeptus Mechanicus background (and possibly openly a Psyker) meaning he will probably be seen as "one of our own" by all of those groups and that gives him extra narrative power. All that, in my opinion, sums up to a character that is OP in every possible way.

[Lynata 2,228]

Well - for creating marines (whether they should have the trait or not is a seperate issue). At the same time, the same statment could apply to traits like Temple Assassin or unique items of wargear, but broadly speaking, 'Traits' are distinct from talents in that there's no way to buy them if you don't have them by default.

 

What I meant to say was that I'm (still) not convinced there's any need to call in that sort of character, or at least have dedicated rules just for dealing with this. "Back in my day", the players would simply declare their intentions, and the GM would look up or extrapolate from an appropriate profile from the myriad of NPCs in the back of the book. At most, the only thing DH2 would/should change here is adding the Influence roll.

 

I'm sure it comes down to a matter of preferences, or maybe it's just because it is so far from what I expected it to be, but this entire feature comes across as a bit haphazard. How would you even include an Assassinorum operative into group gameplay rather than just letting him or her work in the background? If you summon a single Space Marine, what happens with the other players? Or if the other players get Reinforcement characters as well, could you end up with a weird zoo of different archetypes?

 

"A Deathwatch Marine, a Canoness and a Vindicare Assassin go into a bar ..."

 

Like I said, I suppose I just expected actual reinforcements, not replacements. A different approach would have also been an excellent opportunity to deal with the weird yes/no aspect of Influence tests, however -- for example, you could let the players roll their Test, but rather than only determining if the request is being granted, the result would indicate who the players manage to summon ... anything from a squad of Space Marines down to a platoon of local security enforcers. Special relationships to individual organisations could be purchased in the form of Traits that let the relevant group respond if a certain ones digit is rolled, stacking with the actual result of the Test...

 

... but I'm blathering and this is very much OT. Let's just agree on it being a matter of taste.

[Skarsnik38 100]

 

The pysker bit is the weirdest part of that combination. The rest of it is still explainable by fluff. 

 

Technically speaking ... progeny of illegal Magos Biologis subfaction experiments?

 

yes, you can make a fearsome character by loading him out with augmetics, but 'buying' one means you're in surgery for days and arguably out of commission for weeks (re)learning how to use major parts of your body...

 

That doesn't really sound like a disadvantage to me, considering that the other players are unlikely to continue gaming without you. In such cases, I deem it likely the GM would simply adjudicate downtime for everyone.

 

However, in theory it does not have to be -- the GM could indeed "force" such a player to roll up a new temp character for the meantime. Or perhaps even play a *shudder* Reinforcements character.

 

Good point, even psyker can be explained, although if anything that makes the character's background even more sketchy.

Because it takes awhile to install it gives the GM more power to tell the player "no you can't get that there is no time" If the players stop to get equipment that takes weeks to install and recover from that could give their enemies plenty of time to finish their world ending plans. GM's just need to make sure there are consequences to the players' actions if their priorities are off and to emphasize when there is a time crunch.

 

 

Not sure where you're getting the "+20 to +40 to tests depending on base availability" from. The background ability  makes bionics two steps easier to acquire. That is the equivalent to +20 always. A near unique item would become very rare (-50 becomes -30) a very rare item becomes scarce (-30 becomes -10) a scarce bionic becomes common (-10 becomes +10). Always a +20 bonus.

There is a pretty huge fluff downside to taking the psyker elite advance you didn't factor in. This character would not be sanctioned so if he got exposed as a psyker before becoming an inquisitor he would be screwed. Although I suppose if you gamed it and just bought psyker to get the aptitude and never bought any powers you might get around this mostly. 

His big downside seems to be that he likely won't be good in combat with only offense and toughness and he'll have problems with the perception based investigation stuff.

The first is my miscalculation, thanks for correcting. Now about how to avoid being screwed for not being sanctioned -- You nailed it -- just don't pick any advances until You get to be Inquisitor and although technically a psyker, fluff-wise You're super weak latent psyker so unless You run into some monodominant Inquisitors that won't be an issue.

About being weak in combat I would strongly disagree -- even assuming You have 25 both in WS and BS with right implants and gear only that can go up to WS40 (+10 for BestQuality, +5 Custom Grip) and +5 to damage (+1 for BestQuality, +4 due to BQ Synthmuscles) and BS60 (+10 MIU, +10 Targeter, +10 Scope, +5 Custom Grip), while having +2 to +4 "extra" AP due to Subskin Armour/Bionic Heart/Cranial Armour, having Prosanguine which is only accessable by characters with mechanicus implants (AdMech background) that makes a character heal between battles at the speed of average FPS protagonist (read: near instantly), not even saying that if in further supplements there's gonna be something like Mechanicus Assimilation talent in DH1/BC/RT (gives You Machine trait) this character will be able to take it.

Now about perception and investigation -- for perception You take Auger Arrays and Bionic Senses (+40 to Awareness test +Re-Roll if failed in total), and about investigation You do forget that the only skills that can't be used untrained are specialist skills (those who have sub-divisions like Lore skills), with Infused Knowledge You have all Common and Scholastic Lore skills (and possibly have crazy bonuses to it like +40 with right augmetics), and everything else can be kept in check with high enough stats alone (~45) thanks to the fact that You get +60 to stats with only two implants necessary -- Cortex Implants and Synthmuscle Grafts that is 60 points You can spend elsewhere, and then You still have at least three cheap characteristic advances.

 

Then again I have to say that this character is Noble-class (Highborn) AND has Adeptus Mechanicus background (and possibly openly a Psyker) meaning he will probably be seen as "one of our own" by all of those groups and that gives him extra narrative power. All that, in my opinion, sums up to a character that is OP in every possible way.

 

In relation to the psyker thing, it still wouldn't be guaranteed safe. Any psyker who rolls really well on psyniscience in this character's presence could detect his potential and even weak latent psykers get turned over to the black fleet if discovered and in fact, are likely in even more danger as they aren't powerful enough to be useful so will be fed to the golden throne instead of trained. I know my group's GM would not allow us to take the psyker elite advance just for the aptitude and then ignore all the other strings attached and I suspect many other GMs would feel the same.

For combat, the character is completely reliant on equipment and you are basically adding all of it together at once. It should take awhile for a character to gather up all that stuff especially since a lot of it is very rare and there is nothing stopping other characters in the group from getting most of the same stuff. Any other int character (through commerce skill) and any other social character (through peer talents) will be able to get all that stuff just as effectively. Also keep in mind that passing the requisition roll doesn't mean the character got the item instantaneously. For really hard to get stuff it can take multiple in game days to track the item down and negotiate for it. GMs should generally limit how often and how many requisition rolls a single character can make within a certain period of in game time. Depending on the types of worlds the campaign is set on many of these items may not even be available. Good luck finding autosanguine implants, a bionic heart and an MIU on a feral or agri world. Also acquiring all these hard to get items will completely destroy the groups subtlety. 

40% chance to hit with one melee attack and 60% chance to hit at range does not mean good in combat. It means passable in combat. My current party's sniper character has over a 100% chance to hit most of the time and a melee character we had in the group had a to hit chance in the 60s with lightning attack with both hands and blade master for a reroll and both characters did extra damage from mighty shot/blow. Most combat effectiveness comes from talents in the long run.This character of yours would also have mediocre evasion so while he could buff his survivability through armor/equipment he'd need it as he won't be getting out of the may of too many attacks.

My group uses random stat generation so knowing you'll have huge bonuses and therefore keeping those stats low is not a thing for us. Auger array +bionic senses is only a +30, optical mechadendrite would get it to +40, and only a reroll if its a good quality auger array or if you have a talent. The bionic senses also only apply if the replaced sense is applicable to the test. The auger array also doesn't apply to scrutiny tests although bionic eyes and optical mechadendrite would. The synth muscle increases your str bonus and gives extra degrees of success but unnatural stats don't help you pass the test in the first place so is not equivalent to actually raising the characteristic. Some equipment also specifies that to benefit from it you need to be trained in the skill, first aid kits and certain mechadendrites for example.

 

A character is not broken if it takes him having nearly every piece of rare or better equipment in the book to make him that way.

 

 

Well - for creating marines (whether they should have the trait or not is a seperate issue). At the same time, the same statment could apply to traits like Temple Assassin or unique items of wargear, but broadly speaking, 'Traits' are distinct from talents in that there's no way to buy them if you don't have them by default.

 

What I meant to say was that I'm (still) not convinced there's any need to call in that sort of character, or at least have dedicated rules just for dealing with this. "Back in my day", the players would simply declare their intentions, and the GM would look up or extrapolate from an appropriate profile from the myriad of NPCs in the back of the book. At most, the only thing DH2 would/should change here is adding the Influence roll.

 

I'm sure it comes down to a matter of preferences, or maybe it's just because it is so far from what I expected it to be, but this entire feature comes across as a bit haphazard. How would you even include an Assassinorum operative into group gameplay rather than just letting him or her work in the background? If you summon a single Space Marine, what happens with the other players? Or if the other players get Reinforcement characters as well, could you end up with a weird zoo of different archetypes?

 

"A Deathwatch Marine, a Canoness and a Vindicare Assassin go into a bar ..."

 

Like I said, I suppose I just expected actual reinforcements, not replacements. A different approach would have also been an excellent opportunity to deal with the weird yes/no aspect of Influence tests, however -- for example, you could let the players roll their Test, but rather than only determining if the request is being granted, the result would indicate who the players manage to summon ... anything from a squad of Space Marines down to a platoon of local security enforcers. Special relationships to individual organisations could be purchased in the form of Traits that let the relevant group respond if a certain ones digit is rolled, stacking with the actual result of the Test...

 

... but I'm blathering and this is very much OT. Let's just agree on it being a matter of taste.

 

I agree. It doesn't feel like getting reinforcements so much as it seems like hiring somebody to go do part of your job for you which is probably why it costs influence. Canoness also feels like a really weird option rather than just a sister of battle in general.

Also if a character uses a reinforcement character to continue participating while their character is recovering from injury or something it feels weird to force them to burn influence just to be able to keep participating so this doesn't seem like an intended use.

In my play group I don't see us using these rules much. When we want reinforcements we use arbites or armsmen and our characters accompany them leading them into battle rather than just sending them in alone. If we ever get to a point of wanting space marines I expect it will be the same way. If we wanted to play a space marine kill team we could have just played death watch in the first place. Although in first edition we did something like these reinforcement rules once. One of our characters was the head of a death cult so for a particular infiltration mission that required stealth and subterfuge, that most of our ascension party couldn't pull off, we used low level unimportant throw away assassin characters and played it out with them.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Skarsnik38

[Lynata 2,228]

It doesn't feel like getting reinforcements so much as it seems like hiring somebody to go do part of your job for you which is probably why it costs influence. 

 

Heh, well put, too.

 

For what it's worth, I think this may be something the designers actually got from the community. Before DH2, it was somewhat common to read about groups who were playing DH Acolytes for the investigation part, and then swap to a team of DW Marines for combat -- basically, everyone keeping two sheets for play.

 

I guess with Reinforcement Characters for DH2, they just tried to put this into rules.

[Magnus Grendel 11,674]

 

It doesn't feel like getting reinforcements so much as it seems like hiring somebody to go do part of your job for you which is probably why it costs influence. 

 

Heh, well put, too.

 

 

Exactly what I was trying to say, just much better phrased. A 'squad of goons' to follow you around is a requisition check. A reinforcement character costs influence because you're not 'leading from the front' whilst using him/her.

 

And no, I wouldn't let the players use the superfriends brigade. If they want to use Deathwatch marines, then everyone stumps up influence and substitutes out for a marine for the mission.

 

The Assassin is one that may get used in the not-too-distant future (the acolytes have juuuuust about had it with 'pointless diplomatic nicey-nicey' with an influential Rogue Trader who's covering for the Faceless Trade) - in this case one player (the one with Peer [Assassinorium]) will take the Eversor, whilst the others will be using security/tech-use/etc and essentially acting as Diana Burnwood/Benji Dunn/ARIIA type 'voice in the earpiece' and supporting strategists/hackers/systems officers etc.

[Lynata 2,228]

The Assassin is one that may get used in the not-too-distant future (the acolytes have juuuuust about had it with 'pointless diplomatic nicey-nicey' with an influential Rogue Trader who's covering for the Faceless Trade) - in this case one player (the one with Peer [Assassinorium]) will take the Eversor, whilst the others will be using security/tech-use/etc and essentially acting as Diana Burnwood/Benji Dunn/ARIIA type 'voice in the earpiece' and supporting strategists/hackers/systems officers etc.

 

Great idea. Mission Impossible-style.