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The_Brown_Bomber

What tie-advanced squads look strongest post Raider release?

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I like Vessery with 3 AC Tempests.

 

It gives you 2 points to work with on Vessery. Probably a 1 point EPT and then MKII engines. Its a solid squad, 21 hitpoints all behind 3 agility and it will be very accurate. It will love the joust, I'm still going to be accurate even after the K-turn.

 

 

I also want to try Black Squadron:

 

BSP + Intimidation

 

BSP + Calculation x 3

 

Vader + Predator + ATC + EU

 

Which comes to 98 points. I guess you could throw MKIIs on two of the BSP's, but I doubt it would be any good. Looks like it would be pretty fun to fly and very thematic. The one BSP with Intimidation is there to ram/block into whatever target the rest of the group wants to focus on. 3 BSP's with Calculation should tear up any fat turret once shields go down.

Edited by Jo Jo

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ATC will be superior to AC for any ship with the PS to pull it off reliably. And I say this as someone who's already bought two extra Advanced so I can run an AC Tempest swarm. ATC turns the Advanced from a 2-attack-dice ship to STRICTLY BETTER THAN A 3-ATTACK-DICE SHIP ZOMG when you can get it working. It's just brutal. It's doubly brutal in the two-ship meta where you can slap your TL down at Range 3 and just wail away.

I kind of disagree. While this will be true with Vader, not so much with the other Advanced pilots. You have to remember that you have to get a TL on a ship first. If you're TLing a ship, you aren't focusing or evading. You'll have no way to modify the other two dice you're throwing unless you have predator. If you already have a TL on a ship, yes, you can put out some decent damage. But whenever you have to switch targets, you're going to take a massive hit to your damage output and your survivability.

 

A 2 attack ship will always have good damage output whether they have to switch targets or not.

 

An AC ship may not have as good spike damage as an ATC ship, but it is a hell of a lot more reliable and a hell of a lot more survivable. It won't be as good against agi 3+ ships, but it'll be a reliable little ship.

 

I get what you're saying, but generally speaking I don't think you can get away with paying upper-tier Advanced Ace prices for anything that caps out at 2 damage a round. Particularly in the current meta where ships having 2 damage mitigation a round isn't that uncommon so you either need to hit hard or have a bunch of guns in order to have an impact.

 

 

I think it depends. I would probaby never run anything other than ATC on Vader and Maarek. (Though I kinda want to try FCS and Calculation on Maarek for fun)

 

Juno is so flexible and can reasonably stay at any range she wants, which makes other upgrades more attractive. Juno with the MKII, FCS & Cluster Missiles can be pretty dangerous. She can stay at range 3 for her first shot, to set up a TL for next round where she gets into range 1. Then will have a 3-dice TL+F shot next turn which is even better than ATC. And if she fires off those clusters, even better.

 

Zertik for me depends on how I plan on using him. If I was just going to use him as a debuffer, I'd probably just slap AC and VI on him and take an evade or focus every round. Regardless, I'd always save the token for defense. That way, he can stay alive as long as possible to ruin people's days.

 

Alozen I'm not sure about yet. His ability would make ATC good on him, but his PS makes getting into range 1 of higher PS ships more difficult.

 

Colzet could be fun with FCS. AC would work too and he can just TL when he gets an opportunity.

 

The generics, AC all the way.

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Vader+ ATC + title

Juno + PTL + ATC + title+ MkII

Backstabber

Winged Gundark

6pts left. Vader likes Engine but lightning reflexes or adrenaline rush are 1 Pt and I think if you're needing to kturn Vader more than once a game you're probably getting outflown anyway. You could also VI him. All those options leave you with 5pts left. Prokets or other ord? Vader with an extra sheild? Leave some for init bid?

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I'd be interested in seeing how well Juno w/ SoT works.  I know this has been discussed before, but I'm pretty confident that SOT + Juno + a 2 speed maneuver will open up every 1-3 speed maneuver.  Given it's red, but that's okay.  In that way, you can select the best maneuver (direction at least, with the speed default being 2 unless you're clearing stress), and then if it's not good, you can change it to anything except the 4/5 straight or a K turn.  

 

As for the systems, I'd think you'd still want to go with ATC/AC, though AdvS would work well in combination with SOT (plus giving you a BR prior to changing your dial opens it up all that much more!), but then you've invested quite a bit that can be shut down when someone brings PS9+.  Oh well, at least her ability is still useful, and AdvS gives you an action regardless of a bump.  But the opportunity cost of ATC is probably worth more than the free AdvS.

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I'm gonna run:

Whisper/Vadee

Soontir

Colzet

You can probably fill in the upgrades yourself. I'm still debating whether FCS or AccC on Colzet makes the most sense.

Colzet is a good compliment alongside high PS arc Dodgers. You can spend rounds in the middle of the match just positioning and still be useful. You won't have to put him in risky situations or even bring him into the fight early just to get shots and be relevant. That's one reason running a single Tie alongside 2 aces tends to fail.

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This probably won't be as good as Cluster missiles, but I also want to try:

 

Big Gun

 

Tempest + AC + Prockets + MKII x 4

 

 

Packing 4 Prockets should be a lot of fun. Probably not the total damage output of Cluster Missiles, but the burst damage is a lot greater against high agility targets. Also, it allows you to throw MKIIs on all of them, which really helps the dial out. Getting Prockets off at PS 2 can be difficult, but you got 4 ships so your bound to get 1 or 2 into range 1. Its a squad you want to run very aggressively.

Edited by Jo Jo

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There are still a a few points to spend and I'm not sure about the loadout on Strom, but I think this could be fun to fly. It's got two TIE Advanceds each with a TIE Fighter wingman with matching PS. 

 

Darth Vader (29)

Predator (3)

Advanced Targeting Computer (1)

TIE/x1 (0)

 

"Mauler Mithel" (17)

Veteran Instincts (1)

 

Zertik Strom (26)

Predator (3)

Advanced Targeting Computer (1)

TIE/x1 (0)

 

"Backstabber" (16)

 

Total: 97

 


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I think it could be fun to play:

 

- Tempest Squadron Pilot, TIE/X1, FCS, Cluster Missiles * 3

- Captain Jonus

97 points

 

Or:

 

- Tempest Squadron Pilot, TIE/X1, FCS, Proton rockets * 4

96 points

 

The idea with both squadrons is to get the first engagement at range 3, where you can Focus/Evade. You'll get the target lock by FCS. If you pack Proton Rockets, you can use the wounded Advanced for blocking, so the other three can get into range one and focus. If you're packing Cluster Missiles, Captain Jonus helps with his rerolls.

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How about this?

 

Darth Vader (29)
Predator (3)
Advanced Targeting Computer (1)
Engine Upgrade (4)
TIE/x1 (0)

 

Colonel Vessery (35)
Veteran Instincts (1)
"Mangler" Cannon (4)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

 

Tempest Squadron Pilot (21)
Accuracy Corrector (0)
TIE/x1 (0)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

 

I think Tempest AC swarms will be the most prevalent though.

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I think it could be fun to play:

 

- Tempest Squadron Pilot, TIE/X1, FCS, Cluster Missiles * 3

- Captain Jonus

97 points

 

Or:

 

- Tempest Squadron Pilot, TIE/X1, FCS, Proton rockets * 4

96 points

 

The idea with both squadrons is to get the first engagement at range 3, where you can Focus/Evade. You'll get the target lock by FCS. If you pack Proton Rockets, you can use the wounded Advanced for blocking, so the other three can get into range one and focus. If you're packing Cluster Missiles, Captain Jonus helps with his rerolls.

 

 

Jonus isn't doing much for your list. You are going to get a TL on the second re-roll with FCS anyway. He'd only be buffing the first attack. You are just better off throwing in another Advanced, and running Accuracy Corrector.

 

I already suggested the second list ;) but with AC. After you shoot your Prockets, you'll want AC. TLs still leave you with the possibility of rolling 1 hit or 0.

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Vader w/ ATC and Tempest with AC will be the most common.

Vessery definitely is good paired with the Advanced.

But I think Vader, Soontir, and 3rd ship of choice will be very common. There are several good options for the 3rd ship - Vessery, Whisper/Echo, Punisher, 2nd interceptor, 2nd Advanced, shuttle, etc.

Edited by Deadwolf

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It's not flashy and maybe a little boring but I'm Tempest x4 w/ AC and CM all day. I think the Prockets w/ MK II would be fun but more risk averse.

Even high AG ships don't like facing multiple CM 3x3 attacks with 2 hits assured even with the worst luck.

What I don't understand is the side of the argument for ATC which talks about needing that TL for CM. You need a TL for the ATC crit and the expected damage is hit/crit (outside of range 1) vs hit/hit every turn all game with AC. Not to mentioned after the initial pass it becomes less useful because you must track that single ship on which you have a TL in order to use ATC or use your action for another TL on a new target. Once the CM are launched its Evade every turn. No need for TL or Focus for the rest of the game. It significantly enhances the durability of the TA.

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This probably won't be as good as Cluster missiles, but I also want to try:

 

Big Gun

 

Tempest + AC + Prockets + MKII x 4

 

 

Packing 4 Prockets should be a lot of fun. Probably not the total damage output of Cluster Missiles, but the burst damage is a lot greater against high agility targets. Also, it allows you to throw MKIIs on all of them, which really helps the dial out. Getting Prockets off at PS 2 can be difficult, but you got 4 ships so your bound to get 1 or 2 into range 1. Its a squad you want to run very aggressively.

Switch out the AC for SJ.  You play it to force the R1 engagement, and you require your mobile opponents to BR/Boost out of R1 to avoid the Prockets.  In doing so, they waste their actions on movement, and then you use SJ to negate a <boom>.  And for enemies without movement actions, you raise the question - do I spend this token on offense to negate SJ, or do I hold on to it for some defense against those Prockets?

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I might try this list if I can borrow two TIE-As from a friend to fly it:  

 

Zertik Strom + TIE/x1 + Push the Limit (29)
Lieutenant Colzet + TIE/x1 + Fire-Control System (23)
Commander Alozen + TIE/x1 + Veteran Instincts + Advanced Targeting Computer (27)
Tempest Squadron Pilot + TIE/x1 + Accuracy Corrector (21)   

 

A friend is planning on running 4 with all accuracy correctors, but I think this list will be better.

 

I also see Colzet as being very good paired with Vessery, or the lower ps ones might be good at filling holes in a list.

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I'm gonna run:

Whisper/Vadee

Soontir

Colzet

You can probably fill in the upgrades yourself. I'm still debating whether FCS or AccC on Colzet makes the most sense.

Colzet is a good compliment alongside high PS arc Dodgers. You can spend rounds in the middle of the match just positioning and still be useful. You won't have to put him in risky situations or even bring him into the fight early just to get shots and be relevant. That's one reason running a single Tie alongside 2 aces tends to fail.

For Colzet, I'd lean towards FCS. He's a move-first-shoot-last pilot, so FCS allows him to pick up a lock after Vader and Fel have already stripped shields, and pick up locks on targets who weren't in range when he moved. Also lets him spend his action taking a Focus, which will keep him alive.

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"Crits are not as powerful as raw damage".

 

In this case, ATC crits /are/ raw damage, not a result conversion.

 

To be honest I don't think ATC would be that good because well crits are not as powerful as raw damage. IMHO the best upgrade to take with the new TIE advance title would be Accuracy corrector. Always being able to do 2 damage allows for you to strip tokens off of turtled ships pretty well. Plus you would never have to worry about dice wiffing.

ATC will be superior to AC for any ship with the PS to pull it off reliably. And I say this as someone who's already bought two extra Advanced so I can run an AC Tempest swarm. ATC turns the Advanced from a 2-attack-dice ship to STRICTLY BETTER THAN A 3-ATTACK-DICE SHIP ZOMG when you can get it working. It's just brutal. It's doubly brutal in the two-ship meta where you can slap your TL down at Range 3 and just wail away.

The Achilles heel of AC Advanced can be summed up in one word - brobots. The gunner ability and omnipresent cannons robs them of a lot of their defensive resistance, and it'll be difficult to punch through the Aggressor's mass of green dice and defensive tokens with a capped two damage. It's just a tough matchup for them. So I think ideally they want to fly with something that the brobots need to be wary of, which is why the list I'm most excited to play is the Highway To Fel:

Soontir + PTL, RGT, Stealth, AT (35 pts)

3x Tempest Squadron + TIE-X1, AC (63 pts)

 

I like to keep the deviation low. The way I see is that ATC allows you to forgo spending a target lock to add 1 crit. AC maintains that you have 2 hits. On average ATC gives 2 hits (blank, hit being the mode average) some times it may even only give you 1 so ATC on average gives you 1-3 hits with one of them being a crit. AC gives you 2 hits unless you roll say a crit and a hit or 2 crits. IF you miss you still have 2 hits unlike ATC where you would just have 1 hit or spend your target lock to reroll 2 dice.

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"Crits are not as powerful as raw damage".

 

In this case, ATC crits /are/ raw damage, not a result conversion.

 

To be honest I don't think ATC would be that good because well crits are not as powerful as raw damage. IMHO the best upgrade to take with the new TIE advance title would be Accuracy corrector. Always being able to do 2 damage allows for you to strip tokens off of turtled ships pretty well. Plus you would never have to worry about dice wiffing.

ATC will be superior to AC for any ship with the PS to pull it off reliably. And I say this as someone who's already bought two extra Advanced so I can run an AC Tempest swarm. ATC turns the Advanced from a 2-attack-dice ship to STRICTLY BETTER THAN A 3-ATTACK-DICE SHIP ZOMG when you can get it working. It's just brutal. It's doubly brutal in the two-ship meta where you can slap your TL down at Range 3 and just wail away.

The Achilles heel of AC Advanced can be summed up in one word - brobots. The gunner ability and omnipresent cannons robs them of a lot of their defensive resistance, and it'll be difficult to punch through the Aggressor's mass of green dice and defensive tokens with a capped two damage. It's just a tough matchup for them. So I think ideally they want to fly with something that the brobots need to be wary of, which is why the list I'm most excited to play is the Highway To Fel:

Soontir + PTL, RGT, Stealth, AT (35 pts)

3x Tempest Squadron + TIE-X1, AC (63 pts)

 

I like to keep the deviation low. The way I see is that ATC allows you to forgo spending a target lock to add 1 crit. AC maintains that you have 2 hits. On average ATC gives 2 hits (blank, hit being the mode average) some times it may even only give you 1 so ATC on average gives you 1-3 hits with one of them being a crit. AC gives you 2 hits unless you roll say a crit and a hit or 2 crits. IF you miss you still have 2 hits unlike ATC where you would just have 1 hit or spend your target lock to reroll 2 dice.

 

 

I think that the real advantage to ATC over AC, is that even though the average expected damage may be about the same (which with something like Predator or an offensive Focus, it isn't) it is way more likely that you are able to get at least three hits out of the roll and ensure that you get more damage through your targets' defenses.

 

The popularity of two ship builds makes getting and keeping a single TL very action efficient.

Edited by WWHSD

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I think it could be fun to play:

 

- Tempest Squadron Pilot, TIE/X1, FCS, Cluster Missiles * 3

- Captain Jonus

97 points

 

Or:

 

- Tempest Squadron Pilot, TIE/X1, FCS, Proton rockets * 4

96 points

 

The idea with both squadrons is to get the first engagement at range 3, where you can Focus/Evade. You'll get the target lock by FCS. If you pack Proton Rockets, you can use the wounded Advanced for blocking, so the other three can get into range one and focus. If you're packing Cluster Missiles, Captain Jonus helps with his rerolls.

 

 

Jonus isn't doing much for your list. You are going to get a TL on the second re-roll with FCS anyway. He'd only be buffing the first attack. You are just better off throwing in another Advanced, and running Accuracy Corrector.

 

I already suggested the second list ;) but with AC. After you shoot your Prockets, you'll want AC. TLs still leave you with the possibility of rolling 1 hit or 0.

 

 

AH, I did not think that the FCS already helps with the second shot. But since I only have two Advanceds I need a different fourth ship, so I thought why not Jonus? But I could also take a Royal Guard Pilot with PTL or VI and Autothrusters.

 

And after I shot four Prockets, I should have won ;)  so why would I need AC?

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"Crits are not as powerful as raw damage".

 

In this case, ATC crits /are/ raw damage, not a result conversion.

 

To be honest I don't think ATC would be that good because well crits are not as powerful as raw damage. IMHO the best upgrade to take with the new TIE advance title would be Accuracy corrector. Always being able to do 2 damage allows for you to strip tokens off of turtled ships pretty well. Plus you would never have to worry about dice wiffing.

ATC will be superior to AC for any ship with the PS to pull it off reliably. And I say this as someone who's already bought two extra Advanced so I can run an AC Tempest swarm. ATC turns the Advanced from a 2-attack-dice ship to STRICTLY BETTER THAN A 3-ATTACK-DICE SHIP ZOMG when you can get it working. It's just brutal. It's doubly brutal in the two-ship meta where you can slap your TL down at Range 3 and just wail away.

The Achilles heel of AC Advanced can be summed up in one word - brobots. The gunner ability and omnipresent cannons robs them of a lot of their defensive resistance, and it'll be difficult to punch through the Aggressor's mass of green dice and defensive tokens with a capped two damage. It's just a tough matchup for them. So I think ideally they want to fly with something that the brobots need to be wary of, which is why the list I'm most excited to play is the Highway To Fel:

Soontir + PTL, RGT, Stealth, AT (35 pts)

3x Tempest Squadron + TIE-X1, AC (63 pts)

 

I like to keep the deviation low. The way I see is that ATC allows you to forgo spending a target lock to add 1 crit. AC maintains that you have 2 hits. On average ATC gives 2 hits (blank, hit being the mode average) some times it may even only give you 1 so ATC on average gives you 1-3 hits with one of them being a crit. AC gives you 2 hits unless you roll say a crit and a hit or 2 crits. IF you miss you still have 2 hits unlike ATC where you would just have 1 hit or spend your target lock to reroll 2 dice.

The deviation is low, but so are the highs. Attacks with ATC and no other modifiers at R2-3 will result in a minimum of one hit result (critical) 25% of the time, 2 hit results 50% of the time, and 3 hit results another 25% of the time. When attacking that same target at R1, you're averaging 2.5 hits per attack. Add in something like Predator, and those average damage rolls go even higher.

 

AC guarentees that you'll never have less than two hit results, but you'll also never deal more than that at longer ranges. That can be a problem against something like Autothrusters, where dodging two hit results at R3 isn't a big deal.

Edited by PhantomFO

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Lets talk more about Juno Eclipse. All the other pilots seem self explanatory.

I think SoT and mk2 is interesting.

If you choose a 3 bank, you can keep it as a green, do any 2 or 3 speed maneuver or 4 straight or 4 k.

If you choose 4 straight, you can do 4 or 5 straight or any 3 maneuver, and a 3, 4, or 5 k.

And of course doing a 2 straight or bank lets you do any 1, 2, or 3 maneuver.

All the choices are very compelling, depending on if you want to go fast and have lots of k options or go slow and have no k options, or a half way between.

As it's all red maneuvers, it might make sense to run AC on her instead of ATC.

Just so many options!

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Lets talk more about Juno Eclipse. All the other pilots seem self explanatory.

I think SoT and mk2 is interesting.

If you choose a 3 bank, you can keep it as a green, do any 2 or 3 speed maneuver or 4 straight or 4 k.

If you choose 4 straight, you can do 4 or 5 straight or any 3 maneuver, and a 3, 4, or 5 k.

And of course doing a 2 straight or bank lets you do any 1, 2, or 3 maneuver.

All the choices are very compelling, depending on if you want to go fast and have lots of k options or go slow and have no k options, or a half way between.

As it's all red maneuvers, it might make sense to run AC on her instead of ATC.

Just so many options!

I strongly dislike this idea. It's really only an issue in cases where you want to zig where your dial was set to zag, but I can't think of many cases where I've wanted to go left instead of right.

 

For that ability, you're trading your EPT slot and losing your ability to take actions when you execute it, forcing your 31-point ship to rely on unmodded green dice on defense. You're also restricted from actions until you take a green move.

 

I'd rather do Predator and the Mk2 on her. She can slow-roll as much as needed until the time comes to hit a 5-straight and bug out, and can use her mobility to avoid blocks and ensure she always has an action.

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I think that the real advantage to ATC over AC, is that even though the average expected damage may be about the same (which with something like Predator or an offensive Focus, it isn't) it is way more likely that you are able to get at least three hits out of the roll and ensure that you get more damage through your targets' defenses.

 

The popularity of two ship builds makes getting and keeping a single TL very action efficient.

Yeah, plus it means that it's an option to get into R1 to maximise damage. AC ships are kind of desperate to fight at range 2 of pretty much all targets.

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The weakness of the ATCs vs AC are as follows: ATC requires TL in order to use. If you lose a firing solution on that opponent you must TL another opponent in order to make use of ATC. In both situations you can only spend the TL if you plan on spending next turns action acquiring another one (or forgoing use of the ATC). The issue with this is that while you will have better damage output some of the time you have no tokens for defense. This significantly reduces the survivability of the TA. Lastly there is the minor cost of 1 pt for ATC.

I'm not a fan of the AC/DC builds with Dark Curse (maybe my favorite pilot) because even though the damage output is steady it will really struggle vs high AG ships who can take Evade. I like the Tempest x4 with AC and CM because the CM give an option to hammer big ships and punch through high AG ships. I like ATC but on the generics I just think AC is a better option.

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Lets talk more about Juno Eclipse. All the other pilots seem self explanatory.

I think SoT and mk2 is interesting.

If you choose a 3 bank, you can keep it as a green, do any 2 or 3 speed maneuver or 4 straight or 4 k.

If you choose 4 straight, you can do 4 or 5 straight or any 3 maneuver, and a 3, 4, or 5 k.

And of course doing a 2 straight or bank lets you do any 1, 2, or 3 maneuver.

All the choices are very compelling, depending on if you want to go fast and have lots of k options or go slow and have no k options, or a half way between.

As it's all red maneuvers, it might make sense to run AC on her instead of ATC.

Just so many options!

I strongly dislike this idea. It's really only an issue in cases where you want to zig where your dial was set to zag, but I can't think of many cases where I've wanted to go left instead of right.

For that ability, you're trading your EPT slot and losing your ability to take actions when you execute it, forcing your 31-point ship to rely on unmodded green dice on defense. You're also restricted from actions until you take a green move.

I'd rather do Predator and the Mk2 on her. She can slow-roll as much as needed until the time comes to hit a 5-straight and bug out, and can use her mobility to avoid blocks and ensure she always has an action.

SOT makes her pretty useful against Dash and Brobots, who have post dial maneuvers and can end up almost anywhere on the table. Unfortunately, her ps8 doesn't make her useful with SoT against Fel. Basically using her as a counter arc dodger if necessary, as you won't always have to use SoT. You shouldn't be using SoT often. If she used AC instead of ATC, she can turtle up every turn she isn't using SoT and won't lose offense when she does. Edited by Koshinn

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