Is it just me, or do swarms perform well against Dual Aggressors?

[ParaGoomba Slayer 3,179]

I find that IG's can't really maneuver through a huge blob of TIEs in front of them, and if you're at range one you deny HLC gunner.

At range 3 you evade since 2 attack dice isn't going to sneak any damage through 4 dice autothrusters. Use evade to try and take only one damage to avoid triggering gunner.

I've stopped these things in their tracks with multiple TIE Fighters stacked in front of one, kept stationary for a few turns to block slow maneuvers, with one just beyond it to block 3 banks and sloops.

All you have to do is spread out your ships into a loose blob that prevents a large base from getting past it.

I've killed an IG before , realized I was up on points, and ran my entire swarm away before for an MoV win against a second, as it takes a few turns for the IG to get back in range of you if you book it.

[Bloodstripe Baron 510]

Shhh. Don't remind people how good swarms are. Nationals are coming up. My plan depends on It.

[Darth Ruin 513]

Swarms have one or two turns to get the block in and kill an IG, after which losing a 1-2 ships before they can fire absolutely hoses the list. 

 

The IGs are far more favoured in this matchup. 

[CowboyJesus 27]

My IG'S wipe swarms but yeah swarm is still powerful! Requires a very good pilot tho to adapt as the meta changes.

[Radzap 513]

IG's have access to:

 

Advanced Sensors

I. Dampeners

Bombs

Predator

Seg. Loop

 

They can handle swarms if maneuvered wisely.

 

[edit]

Edited July 10, 2015 by Radzap

[fade_74 81]

Just a couple questions.  At range one you avoid taking 4 dice from HLC, but shouldn't you be taking 4 dice from the primary weapon then?  The IG has no doughnut so to speak.  At range 3 why is your opponent only rolling 2 attack dice?  He should be getting 4 from HLC.  When you block with one tie fighter in front, isn't your opponent just blasting one behind it somewhere, like the ones per your example, that are blocking the larger turns?  

[FluxCapcitr 240]

Just a couple questions.  At range one you avoid taking 4 dice from HLC, but shouldn't you be taking 4 dice from the primary weapon then?  The IG has no doughnut so to speak.  At range 3 why is your opponent only rolling 2 attack dice?  He should be getting 4 from HLC.  When you block with one tie fighter in front, isn't your opponent just blasting one behind it somewhere, like the ones per your example, that are blocking the larger turns?  

 

1)  He's stating that at range one your opponent loses the ability to use a second attack (IG-Bs gunner-like ability) if a heavy laser cannon is equipped.  If the swarm player avoids the first attack, they're free rather than having to face 4 more dice in a follow-up attack.

 

2)  The swarm player is throwing the 2 dice, not the IG player.  The point he is trying to make is that there is no point in the swarm player trying to attack at range three, so the swarm player should take an evade for the action and not worry about offense.

 

3)  The IG player can still blast other ships when at range one, but is potentially stripped of an action (unless Advanced Sensors), and is held in place so that the other Ties can slip in close and get an extra die.

 

I personally think the swarm is viable against the IGs, but it will be difficult to fly.  The three dice of the IGs make them a lot stronger against swarms than many other large ships.

Edited July 9, 2015 by FluxCapcitr

[CaptainJaguarShark 1,493]

IG's have access to:

 

Advanced Sensors

I. Dampeners

Bombs

Predator

 

They can handle swarms if maneuvered wisely.

 

Bombs seem like an unlikely choice considering the meta. Although proton can still be nice against Corran and Soontir.

Rest seems right spot on.

[markcsoul 2,104]

Honestly I think most lists can handle brobots fine (not saying they are bad just not unbeatable). I think the reason they're doing so well is because they are strong against turrets as they can hit hard with cannons and evade well with AT. Since there are so many turret lists its no surprise brobots are doing so well.

Edited July 9, 2015 by markcsoul

[ParaGoomba Slayer 3,179]

You take 4 Dice from the primary at range one, yes, but B's ability is a second gunner shot with a secondary weapon (I think specifically a cannon if I'm not mistaken). If HLC is being run this cannot happen if you hug close at range one.

At range 3 my TIEs are only rolling 2 attack dice.

Sometimes you block with one only for farther away ones to get shot, yes. This benefits you though because there is a greater chance that your range 1 fighters will not get killed before they fire.

It's not autowin but a swarm should put up a good fight, I dare say in the hands of a competent swarm player, an 8 ship swarm should have the advantage over a competent IG player, assuming IG 88D isn't in play.

[ficklegreendice 33,791]

it's a game of skill, not of list, that comes down 100% to both players' maneuvers. 

 

 

it can go either way at a moment's notice, with either ties getting a block or exploiting obstacles or the IGs zigging around or keeping at range 3 and popping ties once per turn or two

 

the swarm does not auto-lose and has never auto-lost to any 2-ship list; only to long hours of back-to-back rounds and heavily skewed M.O.V

Edited July 9, 2015 by ficklegreendice

[TasteTheRainbow 8,184]

It depends greatly on the IG build. Advanced sensors are magic.

[ficklegreendice 33,791]

sensors are indeed the ****

 

but lest we forget, without PTL (one variant, with its own set of pros and cons) they're not terribly action efficient. and they'll be sitting on, at most, a focus or an evade (even if after a boost, eh C?).

 

If they don't outmanuever the ties (especially using sensors to boost out of blocks when possible; obstacles make this easier said than done + actually having an arc forces actual decisions between offensive and defensive manuevering) and they're not getting thrusters, then they're on naked green dice for all but one shot.

 

need I remind anyone of the reliability of green dice ?

 

the swarms can win by just drawing enough shots at range 1-2 (forget 3; ain't happening), sensors won't stop that without some skill at the wheel

Edited July 9, 2015 by ficklegreendice

[phild0 1,735]

Tie Swarms perform "okay" against them. I had a game start with 2 Ties getting one shot by Mangler cannons of all things, then Predator and Advanced Sensors meant no blocking strategies worked, and K Turning pretty much meant another Tie would be 1 Shot.

I've also seen it go the other way, so it's not all THAT bad, but I think prefer facing Dual IG with Soontir+Deci or Whisper+Deci. Way easier to pull off a win.

[Panzeh 948]

I did see a list with Palob(autoblaster), 2 thugs(autoblaster), and 3 binayre pirates wreck a brobot list but that list is really bad against anything with serious mitigation.

[Koshinn 326]

Just a couple questions.  At range one you avoid taking 4 dice from HLC, but shouldn't you be taking 4 dice from the primary weapon then?  The IG has no doughnut so to speak.  At range 3 why is your opponent only rolling 2 attack dice?  He should be getting 4 from HLC.  When you block with one tie fighter in front, isn't your opponent just blasting one behind it somewhere, like the ones per your example, that are blocking the larger turns?

 

1)  He's stating that at range one your opponent loses the ability to use a second attack (IG-Bs gunner-like ability) if a heavy laser cannon is equipped.  If the swarm player avoids the first attack, they're free rather than having to face 4 more dice in a follow-up attack.

The entire swarm would have to be in range 1 to deny the B "gunner" a HLC shot.

Remember, if B shoots at range 1 and misses, he can use his ability to HLC a different ship at range 2 or 3.

[Magnus Grendel 9,188]

Advanced Sensors are indeed good, but since the Aggressor only has boost, not barrel roll, if you can block its straight and bank maneuvers, then you've likely blocked off its boost options too - although it's still got an action, one evade token at close range is better than evade/autothusters/extra die at long range...

 

Swarms can face them on a reasonably even footing compared to some other common fleets, anyway.

[Luethar 10]

My IGs consist of IG88B and D. I put Stay on Target on both of them. That gives me the potential for 7 3 speed maneuvers to choose from (4 of them are S Loops). I can avoid a Swarm!

 

Lue.

[Radzap 513]

My IGs consist of IG88B and D. I put Stay on Target on both of them. That gives me the potential for 7 3 speed maneuvers to choose from (4 of them are S Loops). I can avoid a Swarm!

 

Lue.

Oh crap, forgot to put the SLoop in as another anti-swarm tool for Iggy. Thanks!

[barriecritzer 479]

Tie Swarms perform "okay" against them. I had a game start with 2 Ties getting one shot by Mangler cannons of all things, then Predator and Advanced Sensors meant no blocking strategies worked, and K Turning pretty much meant another Tie would be 1 Shot.

I've also seen it go the other way, so it's not all THAT bad, but I think prefer facing Dual IG with Soontir+Deci or Whisper+Deci. Way easier to pull off a win.

Mangler cannons will eat tie fighters alive sadly

[catachanninja 3,482]

Tie Swarms perform "okay" against them. I had a game start with 2 Ties getting one shot by Mangler cannons of all things, then Predator and Advanced Sensors meant no blocking strategies worked, and K Turning pretty much meant another Tie would be 1 Shot.

I've also seen it go the other way, so it's not all THAT bad, but I think prefer facing Dual IG with Soontir+Deci or Whisper+Deci. Way easier to pull off a win.

Mangler cannons will eat tie fighters alive sadly

Heavy laser as well, plus the igs are so fast, they can get away from the swarm in short order and reposition. Maybe feedback array z swarm could handle it, but I wouldn't want to face igs with a swarm.

[markcsoul 2,104]

That was my 6 ship scum swarm list with 3 auto blasters.  Definitely works nice against brobots.  Great at close range fighting in general, but terrible at longer ranges.

[arkhamssaber 246]

My Predator, Advanced Sensors and "Mangler" Cannon robots love facing swarms.

[Hujoe Bigs 2,063]

Ran Fel and 5 x obsidians at regionals yesterday. Boxed in an IG, killed it in the second round of combat, lost a tie, but 13 points for 48, works for me. Got TIEs into every possible location for where he might be unless he went slow, which means he would still be in front of every TIE at range 1, and that is what exactly happened.

[IronTau 245]

^Hi Obsidian Fel player from Regionals! This is the 7 TIEs with Academies player.

 

I wanted to chime in on this topic because dual IG's is my most feared matchup and I'm glad I only had to face one (paired with Boba) this last tournament. I have yet been unable to beat a properly flown dual IG list. Most players these days have no idea how to fly against a full swarm due to the fact that they are so uncommon. In my practice games against dual IG's flown by a few different players, they were always able to defeat my swarm very handily in the second game. The first game they may not know how to fly against 7 TIEs, but by the second game a strategy was obvious and it became impossible for the TIE's against all those mangler cannons at range 3. 

 

My opinion is that the dual IG is currently (due to Phantom being virtually abandoned) the top opponent for TIE swarms, but only when flown right. Which doesn't take a lot to do, just an understanding of what approach to take. TIE's work just as well against the IG's when they're flown incorrectly just like they're good against any large base ship that doesn't know what it is doing.