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Comrade Cosmonaut

My only complaint

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If you want to share the build and summarize what the player wants, maybe somebody can find a way to make it work for him.

He... Has a hard time expressing himself. I think games work for him, allow him some time to step into someone else's skin for a while.

From what he's tried to tell me, he seems to be concerned that he won't be able to shoot well enough to crit since his Agility is only a 2. I suggested upping it to 3 or 4, but he spent a ton of XP on getting Presence to 3 to use some face skills.

At the end of the day, I'm sure, he'll have fun, but the pure numbers equals static effects and set standards of D20 systems spotted into his mindset so well that this is likely just a hurdle to... Hurdle.

I do appreciate all the help, though. From everyone.

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The one thing you (well, the player) is overlooking?

 

Starting with a 1 in a stat necessary for skills in a specialization is beginning with a handicap.

 

Naw, that's not true. Stats are nice - and lord knows I love rolling lots of yellows - but the really fun bits of a character? That's in the talents! Everyone can have a yellow in a blaster - get an advantage? Big deal, that's an extra dead minion. But Point Blank? Good Cop/Bad Cop? Only you will get those awesome talents! That's where the real meat of your awesomeness lies.

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All characters are limited at the star. There's a thing called knight level play that gives PC's 150xp and a heap of credits to spend after character creation, this is about what it takes to really get a character deep into a talent tree. Ask him to think about the goals for the PC, specific talents and gear, that may help him get into it more

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Just because I'm wondering if the Marshal archetype can work or not, I thought I'd work through a build myself. So, here's our starting stats:

 

Brawn: 3

Agility: 2

Int: 2

Cunning: 2

Willpower: 2

Presence: 1

 

We've got 100 points to play with, plus we'll max out the obligation for another 10 XP just because. So, drop 50 of that straight away into the problem stat, the Presence bringing it from 1 to 2 to 3. Cunning isn't a bad choice for the Marshal, so lets throw another 30 at that stat, bringing it to 3 also. 80 points gone, 40 left - we could go with raising the agility and having 10 left over or raising the Brawn up to 4. I kind of like the idea of a sheriff as a kunckleduster sort of fellow, so lets go Brawn. Our stats look thusly:

 

Brawn: 4

Agility: 2

Int: 2

Cunning: 3

Willpower: 2

Presence: 3

 

Now, lets get some skills. . . .

 

You didn't specify what flavor of Nikto we're looking at, so lets go Green, for the brawling bonus for damage. And of course we get the rank in Coordination. For the Career Skills, lets go Deception, Leadership, Negotiation and Streetwise, and for the Marshall skills, lets go Ranged Light and Vigilance.

 

That mean our character looks like this:

 

Brawn: 4

Agility: 2

Int: 2

Cunning: 3

Willpower: 2

Presence: 3

 

Coordination: Yellow, Green

Deception: Yellow, 2 Green

Leadership: Yellow, 2 Green

Negotiation: Yellow, 2 Green

Ranged Light: Yellow, Green

Streetwise: Yellow, 2 Green

Vigilance. Yellow, Green

 

Yeah, it's a bit weak - but it's a starting character. Of course it'll be a bit weak. Okay, lets throw four sessions worth of XP at it - another 80 points (assuming 20 points a session, one session a week). Pick up Grit and Toughened for 10, good cop for another 10 and durable for 10 more. We're down 30 out of our 80. 10 points into Ranged Light, 10 points into brawl, 10 more into Streetwise - oh and lets pick up the 15 point Grit, too. We'll bank those last 5 for Unrelenting Skeptic after next week's session.

 

Brawl: Yellow, 3 Green

Coordination: Yellow, Green

Deception: Yellow, 2 Green

Leadership: Yellow, 2 Green

Negotiation: Yellow, 2 Green

Ranged Light: 2 Yellows

Streetwise: 2 Yellows, Green

Vigilance: Yellow, Green

 

So, with just one month of play and we've got a VERY solid character, and we're well on our way to Dedication for an adder to our attributes. Just another 3 weeks of playing and we'll have our agility up to 3.

Edited by Desslok

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You have the same problem with saga edition. Try to build a wookie jedi just for fun. The penalty on wisdom and charisma make it very hard to have a competant force user of this specie.

 

Some species are better at certain jobs than others because of the stereotyp George Lucas created. We must deal with it.

Edited by vilainn6

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You have the same problem with saga edition. Try to build a wookie jedi just for fun. The penalty on wisdom and charisma make it very hard to have a competant force user of this specie.

 

Some species are better at certain jobs than others because of the stereotyp George Lucas created. We must deal with it.

With FFG SWRPG, a Wookiee Jedi may be hard, but not impossible. I was certainly going down that road, when the game shifted and we generated new characters.

I find that it can be a lot of fun to play against type, so I usually try to do that whenever I can.

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Try to build a wookie jedi just for fun.

 

challenge-accepted.png

 

So, here's our starting stats:

 

Brawn: 3

Agility: 2

Int: 2

Cunning: 2

Willpower: 1

Presence: 2

 

Sadly, no matter how I slice it, I cant figure out how to raise a third stat - well, without ignoring the "problem" stat - so 10 left over it is. Here's what we've got so far:

 

Brawn: 4

Agility: 2

Int: 2

Cunning: 2

Willpower: 3

Presence: 2

 

Now with a Brawn that beefy, we really should go with some kind of asskicker Jedi. Why don't we go with Shii-Cho Knight, with the intent of also spinning off into Aggressor as soon as we can.

 

So why don't we go with Athletics, Brawl, and Coordination for the Career skills and Saber and Athletics for the Shii-Cho skills. With those left over 10 points, why don't we throw them at both of the 5 point parry talents.

 

Athletics, 2 yellow, 2 Green

Brawl: 1 Yellow, 3 Green

Coordination: 1 Yellow, 1 Green

Lightsaber: 1 Yellow 3 Green

 

Lets assume the same month of playing, and we've got 80 more points to build with. Lets throw 20 points at the Lightsaber to punch up the kickassness for 2 yellows, 2 greens. And what would a Jedi be without a couple of force powers!

 

How about Enhance for 10 points and the two Force Jump control upgrades for another 20 so our Wookiee can bounce across the room and scare the crap out of folks! Meanwhile, since I like Move, lets buy that (10 points), upgrade the strength once (10 more) and throw a range at it (5 more). With out last 5 points, lets get the toughened talent.

 

Another couple of weeks worth of XP under my belt and I would start working my way up the talent tree, perhaps Durable, Defensive Training and a third parry for 40 points. And then depending on how the character is playing, I might start saving up for the Aggressor tree around now.

Edited by Desslok

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From what he's tried to tell me, he seems to be concerned that he won't be able to shoot well enough to crit since his Agility is only a 2. I suggested upping it to 3 or 4, but he spent a ton of XP on getting Presence to 3 to use some face skills.

First, he should spend as much of his starting XP on characteristics as possible. It's the only time he can do it.

If it's just the shooting, and not other Agility-based skills, then that's easy. The face in my group has zero ranks and the same Agility, but between the Accurate quality on his blaster, and consistent use of double Aim maneuvers, he hits and crits with great regularity. If your player takes two ranks of ranged X at chargen, within 2 or 3 sessions he could be at rank 4 and be rolling YYGG, which is going to be plenty good for most of his career. Maybe for a while he'll just have to be more careful about maneuver usage to leverage that Aiming. The story here is him excelling at something despite his natural disadvantage, and all of Nikto society will be amazed :)

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I love the idea of trying to build a Nikto. Here's mine:

 

Choose M'Shento'Su'Niktos and gain a rank of perception and a Boost to Perception and Vigilance

 

Brawn 3

Agility 3 (30xp)

Intellect 2

Cunning 2

Willpower 3 (30xp)

Presence 3 (50xp)

 

I'm going to have to take an additional bit of Obligation to get the extra 10xp, but that just helps round the character out.

 

I'm going to take Deception, Leadership, Negotiation, and Streetwise with my career skills, and pick up Coercion and Ranged (light) for the Marshal career bonus skills. 

 

Once play begins I would pick up Vigilance, then focus on the talents. I see no way this character is at a disadvantage. Honestly, the bonus to Perception and Vigilance would make this character a really excellent Marshal, in my opinion.

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I don't really understand the player's frustration.

 

Couldn't he just earn some XP and put points into Ranged and then get more yellow dice when he rolls, regardless of what his Agility is?

 

Then again personally I find this kind of min-maxing more suited to tactical miniatures games like Imperial Assault or X-Wing.

 

In a year or two, when you guys are done with the campaign and just thinking back on the experiences you had playing Star Wars with each other, who's going to remember whether his Agility was a 2 or a 3 or how many times he could crit?

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I don't really understand the player's frustration.

 

Couldn't he just earn some XP and put points into Ranged and then get more yellow dice when he rolls, regardless of what his Agility is?

 

Then again personally I find this kind of min-maxing more suited to tactical miniatures games like Imperial Assault or X-Wing.

 

In a year or two, when you guys are done with the campaign and just thinking back on the experiences you had playing Star Wars with each other, who's going to remember whether his Agility was a 2 or a 3 or how many times he could crit?

Skill Ranks don't give you Yellows. The higher of the two (Ranks or Attribute) sets the number of green. The lower of the two upgrades that many green to yellow.

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I don't really understand the player's frustration.

 

Couldn't he just earn some XP and put points into Ranged and then get more yellow dice when he rolls, regardless of what his Agility is?

 

Then again personally I find this kind of min-maxing more suited to tactical miniatures games like Imperial Assault or X-Wing.

 

In a year or two, when you guys are done with the campaign and just thinking back on the experiences you had playing Star Wars with each other, who's going to remember whether his Agility was a 2 or a 3 or how many times he could crit?

Skill Ranks don't give you Yellows. The higher of the two (Ranks or Attribute) sets the number of green. The lower of the two upgrades that many green to yellow.

 

 

If you start out with an Agility of 2 and you have 4 ranks in Ranged Light, you've got two Yellows, right?

 

Heck, you can even spend your XP later on to get Dedication and increase that Agility even more. Or just buy it up to 3 when you start.

 

Or, more reasonably, don't worry about it... flip a Destiny Point to upgrade your check, or just don't even worry about how many dice you have and just play a fun game.

Edited by progressions

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I recognize that different players value different aspects of gaming, and some types of players are what Robin Laws calls "Power Gamers", where the mechanics are extremely important.

 

Maybe if this hypothetical Nikto Marshal was planning on entering the Galaxy-Wide Marshal competition against every other Marshal alive and the life of the player themselves depended on the results of this specific competition, then having a 2 in Agility instead of a 3 or whatever might be a reason not to be a Nikto, but ...

 

... in a roleplaying game where you're just making pretend that you're a guy running around in a Galaxy having adventures, I just don't see the cause for concern.

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I don't really understand the player's frustration.

 

Couldn't he just earn some XP and put points into Ranged and then get more yellow dice when he rolls, regardless of what his Agility is?

 

Then again personally I find this kind of min-maxing more suited to tactical miniatures games like Imperial Assault or X-Wing.

 

In a year or two, when you guys are done with the campaign and just thinking back on the experiences you had playing Star Wars with each other, who's going to remember whether his Agility was a 2 or a 3 or how many times he could crit?

Skill Ranks don't give you Yellows. The higher of the two (Ranks or Attribute) sets the number of green. The lower of the two upgrades that many green to yellow.

 

 

If you start out with an Agility of 2 and you have 4 ranks in Ranged Light, you've got two Yellows, right?

 

Heck, you can even spend your XP later on to get Dedication and increase that Agility even more. Or just buy it up to 3 when you start.

 

Or, more reasonably, don't worry about it... flip a Destiny Point to upgrade your check, or just don't even worry about how many dice you have and just play a fun game.

 

And if you have an Agility of 4 and 2 ranks in Ranged light you've got the same pool. So, your original statement that Ranks add Proficiency... isn't accurate.

 

For example. If you had an Agility of 1 and 3 Ranks, you'll have a pool of 2G 1Y. Add another rank, and the pool is 3G 1Y... ooops... same number of Proficiency, yet you added a skill rank.

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Firstly, I love the Wookiee and two Nikto builds. Secondly, it's just a player who prefers numbers to people and finds comfort in them. I wouldn't say he's power gaming as a character trait; just that numbers make clear and rational sense to him.

My whole issue was simply that this system, same as D&D before, alienate him a bit as he has high concept ideas hut then falls to the pure math.

He'll adapt. Especially, I think, if he sees some of these builds... Or the sheets for the other players. Yeesh these guys are new to this.

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Kallabecca, I was just saying, spend some XP and you can improve your rolls. Don't worry about it so much.

 

Maybe everything in the universe doesn't have to be a battle of words to see who can be the most literal and analytical?

 

I'm sorry for even reading this forum sometimes.

Edited by progressions

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Kallabecca, I was just saying, spend some XP and you can improve your rolls. Don't worry about it so much.

 

Maybe everything in the universe doesn't have to be a battle of words to see who can be the most literal and analytical?

 

I'm sorry for even reading this forum sometimes.

Don't be sorry, everyone is a valuable contributor, even if only to see another's different point of view

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In the players defence the last few versions of DnD as well as Pathfinder were heavily biased towards having high stats in order to effectively contribute. I fell it that trap when I first started EotE as well when I bought a 4 Agil for my medic. Now I realize that 3 is perfectly fine and 2 can be effective as well with a few skill ranks.

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