Overlapping

[GameCafe 91]

I was trudging through the rule book to see if the shield dials being underneath an opposing ship counted as overlapping or not. Any assistance on this matter would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[KommissarK 209]

They shouldn't. Generally speaking, when it comes to exactly "where" a ship is on the map, it should only ever be considered to be the cardboard tile that rests atop the plastic stand. Not the stand itself or the dials.

[GameCafe 91]

For sure the plastic stands overlapping has to be considered overlapping in the rules as you can't physically place the model down. Do you just continue play with one ship propped up?

[Forgottenlore 9,838]

They shouldn't. Generally speaking, when it comes to exactly "where" a ship is on the map, it should only ever be considered to be the cardboard tile that rests atop the plastic stand. Not the stand itself or the dials.

In armada I'm pretty sure the plastic lip on the sides of the cardboard also count. There is repeated language in the rulebook about not counting shield dials or the plastic bit that frame the shield dials. Therefore, via exception that proves the rule, the rest of the plastic base does count.

[GameCafe 91]

Awesome possum Forgottenlore. That's how we were playing it but a new player asked and I had no good way to answer lol.

[ryryak 8]

From page 8 of the rules:

 

A ship’s shield dials and the plastic portions that frame them count as part of the ship’s base for the purposes of overlapping, but squadrons’ activation sliders are ignored

 

 

For other purposes (range, running off the table, etc...) you ignore the plastic base surrounding the ship's card, but exclusively for overlapping, you do not.

 

EDIT: This is good to know as I've been playing this wrong up until now

Edited July 9, 2015 by ryryak

[GameCafe 91]

Even better Ryryak. Thanks for the page reference.

[ScottieATF 2,867]

They shouldn't. Generally speaking, when it comes to exactly "where" a ship is on the map, it should only ever be considered to be the cardboard tile that rests atop the plastic stand. Not the stand itself or the dials.

As noted above this is the opposite of what the rules say.

[Intys Rule 148]

The only thing that the cardboard is "exact" about is LoS and weapon arcs.

[MaverickNZ 591]

From page 8 of the rules:

 

A ship’s shield dials and the plastic portions that frame them count as part of the ship’s base for the purposes of overlapping, but squadrons’ activation sliders are ignored

 

 

For other purposes (range, running off the table, etc...) you ignore the plastic base surrounding the ship's card, but exclusively for overlapping, you do not.

 

EDIT: This is good to know as I've been playing this wrong up until now

 

Clarifying this:

 

A ship’s shield dials and the plastic portions that frame

them count as part of the ship’s base for the purposes

of overlapping, but squadrons’ activation sliders are

ignored.

 

So yes, shield dials and surrounds count for overlapping.

 

However, for other measurements - range/distance etc, the shield dials and the plastic directly supporting them are ignored (that funny little shape that sticks out), but the rest of the plastic base still counts. So I disagree that you "ignore the plastic base surrounding the ship's card" as that is not in the list of things specified to ignore when measuring.

[ryryak 8]

 

From page 8 of the rules:

 

A ship’s shield dials and the plastic portions that frame them count as part of the ship’s base for the purposes of overlapping, but squadrons’ activation sliders are ignored

 

 

For other purposes (range, running off the table, etc...) you ignore the plastic base surrounding the ship's card, but exclusively for overlapping, you do not.

 

EDIT: This is good to know as I've been playing this wrong up until now

 

Clarifying this:

 

A ship’s shield dials and the plastic portions that frame

them count as part of the ship’s base for the purposes

of overlapping, but squadrons’ activation sliders are

ignored.

 

So yes, shield dials and surrounds count for overlapping.

 

However, for other measurements - range/distance etc, the shield dials and the plastic directly supporting them are ignored (that funny little shape that sticks out), but the rest of the plastic base still counts. So I disagree that you "ignore the plastic base surrounding the ship's card" as that is not in the list of things specified to ignore when measuring.

 

You are right!  For some reason I forgot about the little blips that the shield dials attach to and my brain made the connection "plastic that frames the cardboard ship base".  I am wrong.

[Darth Lupine 1,556]

For sure the plastic stands overlapping has to be considered overlapping in the rules as you can't physically place the model down. Do you just continue play with one ship propped up?

And as for propping up, no you don't. A collision occurs, and you temporarily reduce speed on the moving ship until the overlap no longer occurs, a which point both ships get dealt a damage card.

[DWRR 898]

Just to clarify, range is measured to the ship cards, ignoring all parts of the plastic base.

 

From the range thread a few down from this one...

 

 

If you look at the defenition of "hull zone" (RRG P6) it specificaly states that is doesn't include any part of the plastic base.

Then for "Measuring firing arc and range" (RRG P7) it tells us to measure attackrange from the closets point of the two hull zones.

So for attack range (or any measurement that measures from/to a hull zone) you ignore ALL plastic and measure from/to the cardboard.

Any measurement where a specific hull zone is not used, the last bullet under "Measuring firing arc and range" strongly implyes that the plastic base is included by stating specific parts of the plastic that are NOT included (why exclude some parts if all of it should be excluded any way).

 

So it looks to me that what you include depends on what you are measuring. Atleast that is what I can get from the rules.

Edited July 10, 2015 by DWRR

[Spellbound 27]

So the shield dials count for overlapping, but have we discovered a problem with whether or not the plastic base counts for measuring range?

[ryryak 8]

Here are the relevant entries from the rules:

 

Hull Zones

A hull zone is a section of a ship token delineated by the two firing arc lines that border it. It does not include any part of the plastic base. (pg 6)

 

Measuring Firing Arc and Range

To measure attack range from a ship, measure from the closest point of the attacking hull zone. To measure attack range to a ship, measure to the closest point of the defending hull zone. To measure attack range to or from a squadron, measure to or from the closest point of the squadron’s base. (pg 7, emphasis mine)

 

Overlapping

A ship’s shield dials and the plastic portions that frame them count as part of the ship’s base for the purposes of overlapping, but squadrons’ activation sliders are ignored.(pg 8)

 

It seems clear to me then that since you measure to and from hull zones when figuring out range, you measure to and from the cardboard, NOT the plastic base.

 

With regards to overlapping, while it does not say crystal clear that the plastic counts, it does mention that the shield dials and the plastic hangars DO count, and so I would deduce that if those count when determining overlapping, then so would the plastic base that those shield hangars are attached to.

 

Hope this helps, discussion welcome!

 

EDIT: Fixed some wording

Edited July 10, 2015 by ryryak

[DWRR 898]

Attack range is card to card.

 

Overlapping includes all plastic and dials on the base.

 

[edit] What Ryryak said.

Edited July 10, 2015 by DWRR

[lpfankabe 25]

I apologize if this was answered elsewhere:

What do I do if the ship model (e.g., the nose or side corner of a VSD) overlaps and prevents the ship from completing its maneuver, which would not result in an overlapping base?

p. 10 states, "...the plastic ship model does not affect . . . overlapping, or any other game mechanic." So the move is legal and results in no crash/damage.

But to resolve it, what must I do: Stop the ship where it meets the other; push the existing ship out of place; lean the moving model on the other one; remove the model from its holder until it can be replaced?

[Green Knight 9,746]

I apologize if this was answered elsewhere:

What do I do if the ship model (e.g., the nose or side corner of a VSD) overlaps and prevents the ship from completing its maneuver, which would not result in an overlapping base?

p. 10 states, "...the plastic ship model does not affect . . . overlapping, or any other game mechanic." So the move is legal and results in no crash/damage.

But to resolve it, what must I do: Stop the ship where it meets the other; push the existing ship out of place; lean the moving model on the other one; remove the model from its holder until it can be replaced?

 

Temporarily remove one ship from the stand - the ship minis have no in-game effects.

[Spellbound 27]

Card to card, huh?  Well, that changes things.

[Dalenar 5]

Played a game of Armada today where my ship was moving speed 2 and overlapped with an enemy ship. So I backed it down to speed 1 temporarily as per the rules--but that caused it to overlap with an asteroid.

 

Do I take the damage from the ship collision as well as the damage from the asteroid overlap? That seems excessive to me.

[Drasnighta 26,832]

Played a game of Armada today where my ship was moving speed 2 and overlapped with an enemy ship. So I backed it down to speed 1 temporarily as per the rules--but that caused it to overlap with an asteroid.

 

Do I take the damage from the ship collision as well as the damage from the asteroid overlap? That seems excessive to me.

Yes.  You perform the maneouver as required - in this case, moving it down a notch, and if that makes you hit an asteroid, too bad...  You would only back down further if your speed 1 maneouver would also hit a ship...  In which case, you only take damage from hitting the closest ship, and it takes damage too...

But in your case, yes.  You hit an Asteroid Field, after ramming into an enemy ship...

[Amanal 2,557]

[Spellbound 27]

It's a maneuvering game, man!  Make sure that doesn't happen!

[Intys Rule 148]

I got into a tricky situation one time.  I had my VSD and GSD close to each other, facing off against the enemy ships.  I did not want to move the GSD first as that would mean his ships can then take shots at the GSD as it moves closer so I decide to activate the VSD first.  I was thinking "it could take the punishment and I'll move the GSD later so less ships can fire on it."  I shoot with my VSD but when it came time to maneuver it, well, it collided with the GSD and the VSD stayed where it was but both ships ended up with 1 damage card.

 

I could've totally avoided the situation if I moved the GSD first but I guess 1 damage from overlap is better than 3 ships firing at it.

[err404 132]

Overlaps include the plastic frame and dials.

Attack to/from hull zones measure from cardboard.

And to add to the confusion…

Effects that measure to a ship (not a hull zone), DO include the plastic frame, but NOT the dials.