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iLiveAGAIN

Other 40K Factions coming?

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I know this is FFG the kings of bleeding their customers dry... but as much as I hate myself for asking...

 

Dose anyone know if they will be adding Tyrinids, Tau, Dark Elder, Chaos Demons (they have there own army now in 40K sepoerate from Chaos Marines) and most importantly... Necrons?

 

Without at least Necrons and Tyrinids... I dunno....

 

Any thoughts?

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It's far too soon to say for sure, but I would not be surprised.

 

I'm sure that a lot of it has to do with whether or not this game does well in the retail market. So, if you want to see expansions, the best thing you can do is to buy the game and encourage others to do the same. I got a copy of the game right away and then showcased it at one of our local game stores. One of the players was on the fence about whether or not to buy the game. As a result of that introductory game, he came back into the store the next day and bought his own copy.

Edited by Wh0isTh3D0ct0r

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yeah I played it at my mates house.. it is basically a reprint of Starcraft... though streamlined. I enjoyed it but not sure if worth adding to my shelf.... I'll probably wait.. if a Necron expansion comes out then I'll buy it and w/e expansions are avaliable.

 

As long as they are just factions. There is enough going on in this game and it is good as is. FFG's tendency to cram stuff in for no other reason that to have an expansion exist really sucks. (looking at you battlestar!)

Edited by iLiveAGAIN

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yeah I played it at my mates house.. it is basically a reprint of Starcraft... though streamlined. I enjoyed it but not sure if worth adding to my shelf.... I'll probably wait.. if a Necron expansion comes out then I'll buy it and w/e expansions are avaliable.

 

As long as they are just factions. There is enough going on in this game and it is good as is. FFG's tendency to cram stuff in for no other reason that to have an expansion exist really sucks. (looking at you battlestar!)

 

Did you actually ever play starcraft? or just someone else repeating a rubbish meme ad verbatum starting at the first person who started it.  Most boring game of FFGs that I have ever played/owned, it isn't reskinned at all it just takes a couple of mechanics from it.  Totally different game in most other senses, this game is a masterpiece.

 

I Think FFG would be stupid not to do race specific add ons they could almost make it a LCG with the way the whole game changes based on the decks of cards and the Race sheets.

 

Having said that this wouldn't give you new minis for the other races which I would imagine will be announced over the next year.  Remember based on their current games of this kind (Starcraft applies now) everything from TI3, CIV and even things like Runewars there isn't more than two or maybe three expansions in it over a period of years rather than games like Descent or IA which are a different type of game.

 

There is no reason that every Chapter/Klan/Traitor Legion/Craftworld as well as other races shouldn't be included

 

Rules for Space Hulks anyone?  There is a rich universe to tap and I hope they get every ounce from this one, I own all the BSG add ons and I haven't played every part of them all, but I have played parts of them all and that's the great thing about modular expansions (this is the precedence in all the games I have mentioned) they are whatever you want them to be.

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I have been thinking about this, and the two teams that makes the most sense to be in an expansion is Tau and Necrons.

Tyranids would have to work in another way than the current norm, due to structures, and could break the game.

Imperial guard (Astra Militarum) would give werry litte to the game, but it's the 3. one I would add.

if there had to be a 4. I would think deamons or Ad mech.

 

I might add that most of these board games get one expansion from FF.

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I know this is FFG the kings of bleeding their customers dry...

 

I like how you say this about FFG bleeding us all dry, yet here we all are - asking for expansions =D

 

On that way, I have never been miffed about FFG's business model. It's my choice to pay or not to pay. All the games I have gotten from FFG have been complete games on their own and worth their value so if I don't to spend more money on it then I just won't. Disposable income and all that.

 

Now try keeping up with a TCG like Magic: The Gathering. Goodbye wallet XD

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I like how you say this about FFG bleeding us all dry, yet here we all are - asking for expansions =D

 

On that way, I have never been miffed about FFG's business model. It's my choice to pay or not to pay. All the games I have gotten from FFG have been complete games on their own and worth their value so if I don't to spend more money on it then I just won't. Disposable income and all that.

 

Now try keeping up with a TCG like Magic: The Gathering. Goodbye wallet XD

 

 

I don't know about the bleeding dry comment, I think FFG is really good at knowing what players want and what they will pay for, but more importantly they have a good reputation for putting out complete games that are ready to go out of the box and ensuring expansions really are expansions rather than "things that should have been in the game in the first place".

 

In any case I predict Forbidden Stars is going to do very well and you can count on an expansion like money about to go missing from your bank account.

As for what races they will include.  I would speculate that the most likely form for the expansion will be new factions for the same races so that their is more re-usability with the existing game.  We might see a new race in which case it will most likely be the Tau or the Imperial Guard, they are both kind of staples of the universe.  Necrons tend to be included less often in games.

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Did you actually ever play starcraft? or just someone else repeating a rubbish meme ad verbatum starting at the first person who started it.  Most boring game of FFGs that I have ever played/owned, it isn't reskinned at all it just takes a couple of mechanics from it.  Totally different game in most other senses, this game is a masterpiece.

 

Sure. I own Star Craft and the expansion (not the promos though). We even busted it out and played a game of it this weekend just for fun after F.Stars. If you can not see the similarities between the mechanisms of these games then, ... well. I do not know what to say. Something being similar dose not mean it is bad, and F.Stars is obviously a different game. No one is saying it is a reimplementation. There are direct similarities, this can not be denied by ANYONE that has played Star Craft.. which is why it keeps getting compared by us older gamers that played Star Craft a lot. Besides.. being like Star Craft is a GOOD thing.

 

I Think FFG would be stupid not to do race specific add ons they could almost make it a LCG with the way the whole game changes based on the decks of cards and the Race sheets.

 

Having said that this wouldn't give you new minis for the other races which I would imagine will be announced over the next year.  Remember based on their current games of this kind (Starcraft applies now) everything from TI3, CIV and even things like Runewars there isn't more than two or maybe three expansions in it over a period of years rather than games like Descent or IA which are a different type of game.

 

There is no reason that every Chapter/Klan/Traitor Legion/Craftworld as well as other races shouldn't be included

 

If / When, and I think it is likly we will see more races. Then there WILL be unique models for them.. just like there is for the default races. I am not sure that we need "chapters" and the like for all the various races. I think the logical thing to do would be to add the actual MISSING races. LIke Tau, Necrons, Dark Elder, Maybe Chaos Demons (as that is a legit separate entity to Chaos Marines now)

 

A simple card replacement pack could make unique chapters like Space Wolves or w/e.. but I would MUCh prefer to see actual missing races.

 

I don't know about the bleeding dry comment, I think FFG is really good at knowing what players want and what they will pay for, but more importantly they have a good reputation for putting out complete games that are ready to go out of the box and ensuring expansions really are expansions rather than "things that should have been in the game in the first place".

Are you kidding me? Imperial Assault is basically an empty box. You need to buy expansions just to play it. I mean.. yeah there is a game there but it isn't really the game. I know people that have vowed to never buy a FFG game after opening that complete rip off. How about Eldritch Horror? There isn't a player who dosen't say the base game is short on cards. In a single playthough you might go though the deck 3 or even 4 times and the item deck twice. Then only a few weeks latter.. BANG a "expantion" (the small box one) comes out adding more cards to all decks... that is a perfect example of an expansion that should have been in the base set.

 

In any case I predict Forbidden Stars is going to do very well and you can count on an expansion like money about to go missing from your bank account.

As for what races they will include. I would speculate that the most likely form for the expansion will be new factions for the same races so that their is more re-usability with the existing game. We might see a new race in which case it will most likely be the Tau or the Imperial Guard, they are both kind of staples of the universe. Necrons tend to be included less often in games.

This is exactly what I hope they do not do, and it is what I am waiting for before I buy the game. If they just add new factions as card upgrades and not actual new races, then what is the point. F.Stars is an extremely good game.. it doesn't need tons of extra crap complicating thing.. but what it dose need is the missing factions. They should add new factions before anything that adds new rules or mechanisms.

 

 

 

I know this is FFG the kings of bleeding their customers dry...

 

I like how you say this about FFG bleeding us all dry, yet here we all are - asking for expansions =D

 

(SNIP)

 

Now try keeping up with a TCG like Magic: The Gathering. Goodbye wallet XD

 

haha... Yeah I can see the contradiction but there is a difference between an "expansion" and just stuff that should have always been in the games. In the old days an expatiation would come out after the game has been out for years and the players were champing for there old game to be "shaken up". Nowadays expansions are planned before the game is even made, they are in fact just part LEFT OUT of the initial release.

 

I have nothing against expansions.. when they are good expansions. Adding new factions for example is a good thing. So, yeah I am asking for that. New factions is an example of a "worthy" expantion.. not just some money spinner like many of FFGs things.

 

Still, say Descent 2.0.. giving players models for everything in the box, apart form the Boss Monsters, and then selling them separately so it is nearly as expensive to get a few models to complete the base game as ity was to BUY the base game.. that is stupid. Those models should have been included, you know.. like EVERY other thing in the base set has a model. They literally give you a model for everything ... but these Boss models which also happen to be the focus of the scenarios.. so not matter what monsters you use, even if you have all the old D1 stuff... these are still cardboard chips.. while everything else is a model.This is just one of many examples. I have already talk about EH and IA.

 

As for Conquest and the other LCGs. I collect a few LCGs as well as others like Doomtown and I liken the LCG format to an abusive spouse. Where I am the one being abused. Saying.. I left my husband (the TCG) who used to beat me so badly I went to the hospital with broken ribs and cracked jawbone regularly and am now with my boyfriend (the LCG) and he beats me up, but  only get bruises and the occasional break... doesn't mean the boyfriend is still a cool guy. Still we love him and think he is so much better.

 

Just because the TCG is unbelievably terrible for consumers, especially for collectors like me and the LCG is MARGINALLY better.. doesn't mean the LCG is still not a massive wallet vacuum. It isn't as bad as a TCG.. but it is still pretty bad.

Edited by iLiveAGAIN

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If / When, and I think it is likly we will see more races. Then there WILL be unique models for them.. just like there is for the default races. I am not sure that we need "chapters" and the like for all the various races. I think the logical thing to do would be to add the actual MISSING races. LIke Tau, Necrons, Dark Elder, Maybe Chaos Demons (as that is a legit separate entity to Chaos Marines now)

 

A simple card replacement pack could make unique chapters like Space Wolves or w/e.. but I would MUCh prefer to see actual missing races.

 

I see no issue why we can't just have both. A bigger expansion that introduces two completely new factions and smaller packs then sell alternate chapters, clans, etc. with card upgades and a card you put over the faction ability that has their own ability. Hell - I would like to see an expansion introduce heroes, maybe even more units to the original unit roster.

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well your right... faction changes that completely swap out say "wold eaters" for "Thousand Sons" sure... a little redundant imo, as there is plently of "game" here already. It will take many, many MANY plays to explore what we have.

 

As for heroes... well that is exactly what I do not want. New rules and mechanisms getting added on a already meaty 4-5 hour game.

 

Same as above, there is enough here to give a mass of games before you ever need extra stuff. I mean  look at Chaos of the Old World, we have played that game like a zillion times and it is still great (I have horned rat but we rarely use it). A game like F.Stars as it is a FFG game will have new additional stuff like "heroes" (maybe) before anyone has even explored the options of the existing game.

 

These are just my own opinions... but that is how I see it. The only reason I am curious if there will be an expansion is that the two best 40K races are not even in this game and it is turning off a LOT of my 40K mates who otherwise would love this game. Now yes, you could say a salamander chapter fan might feel the same about ultrmarines.. but at least the race human is represented!

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As for heroes... well that is exactly what I do not want. New rules and mechanisms getting added on a already meaty 4-5 hour game.

 

Couldn't agree more with this, If it got any more meaty (a couple of mechanics add a couple of hours easy) I would be looking at TI3 length and as good as this game is TI3 has a lot more richness in most areas so I would probably look to play that on a weekend.  If I start early enough I can get a game of this going in a night which is a massive attraction for me.

 

Concerning things like adding extra chapters, the beauty is you wouldn't have to produce a whole bunch of extra minis so it would only be a small part of the expansion or a mini expansion rather than spending an entire add on with extra pieces.

 

Bottom line is what will sell?  On my 40k experience  and I could be wrong but I think alternate chapters particularly would sell considerably better than Tau or Necrons As much as I want them in the game a nod to the Dark or Blood Angels in way of a 40 card expansion as well as a faction sheet would be a lot cheaper to produce as well.

 

Most likely Army to get new plastic I would say Nids  

Edited by Lilikin

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well your right... faction changes that completely swap out say "wold eaters" for "Thousand Sons" sure... a little redundant imo, as there is plently of "game" here already. It will take many, many MANY plays to explore what we have.

 

 

The same point was made above about BSG but they still made it, a good game company isn't about what you play it is about what people will buy and like your mates who are turned off by a lack of races some SM players will be turned off by the Boy shouts being the only marine army.

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A crack dealer is just providing a product people will buy.. that doesn't mean it is ethically justified. FFG knows all to well the addictive nature of the "collector" and how their fans think. It is exploitive. Just like some lame computer game getting sold for 80bucks and then charging 5 bucks for some new gun skin has computer gamers up in arms. Greedy bastards!

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Are you seriously saying there isn't a similarity between computer game dlc and the modern board game expansions? Because that is completely wrong imo and for the same reasons some DLC is hated on, apply to boardgames and FFG is one of the major offenders, just like say Paradox for computer games.

Edited by iLiveAGAIN

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No I am saying that as someone myself who had a Blood angel Successor chapter and a Dark angel army I would rather play these than the Ultramarines and I don't feel like I need to master the Ultramarines in order to want to play a Dark Angel or Blood Angel force.

 

You will probably find 50% of 40k sales are Space Marines or Inquisition etc so there is a massive market for it from the perspectives of people like your friends and probably very little for many other forces.

 

Now I understand the fact they shouldn't have included a second chapter in the base box but 50% of the existing market even if not all players will come from the 40k background it is hard to ignore.

 

Crack comments = Hyperbole

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Yeah, I get that. Still don't you think that if there are priorities, then adding completely missing races might take precedence over adding mass of faction cards?

 

Crack comments = Hyperbole

 

How about crack comments = joke... don't take things so seriously dude. All I meant is that I feel FFG takes advantage of its customers in some cases.. like the ones I listed in this thread for example, there are more.

 

Oh and if you want rip off go look at the X Wing stuff where I need to spend £76 to get some cards to fix the tie Advanced.

 

Oh dude.. totally! I gave up after wave 3 on that one.. I saw it would never end! Armada I haven't even started on.

 

I just started to notice that all I was ever doing was buying expansions.. many of which were coming from FFG. I made the tough decision to cut off all the games that are "endless" Games like X-Wing or Descent for example. Though I still get a few LCG style card games.

 

What I Iook for now are actual complete games. Like you buy a GMT game like Twilight Struggle and that it is.. it is perfect and done. You can play it for decades and its depth and quality make it cool. No extra crap. Most traditional wargames and euro games like say Bruxelles 1893 are complete entities. Play tested to perfection and ready to go.. and most importantly DONE. Buy it own it.

 

F.Stars, imo IS a "done" game. It doesn't need anything really. I am sure there is enough here to play for a long long time. Still, a 40K game missing Trynids? Come on.. that is NOT complete! : )

Edited by iLiveAGAIN

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Yeah, I get that. Still don't you think that if there are priorities, then adding completely missing races might take precedence over adding mass of faction cards?

 

Crack comments = Hyperbole

 

How about crack comments = joke... don't take things so seriously dude. All I meant is that I feel FFG takes advantage of its customers in some examples.. like the ones I listed in this thread for example, there are more.

 

And I am saying that because of the massively reduced cost due to already having plastic albeit it with the Ultramarine logo on they would be stupid not too for the sake of 40 cards

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Well I have never played Eldritch Horror and I have only played Imperial Assault a couple of times so you have named two games I don't have experiance with.

 

I do however own a lot of FFG games and they are all very complete games.

War of The Rings

Twilight Imperium

Kingsburg

Fury of Dracula

Rex

Cosmic Encounters

 

 

Just to name a few.  All of them very complete games and most of them have expansions available (I have even bought a few, in some cases all of them) and I didn't feel they where nescessary, just desirable. 

 

I can't blame a great company for making desirable products that I want, thats just silly.

 

In as a whole however FFG is responsible for creating very complete games in genres that others have not.

 

For example Star Wars Edge of the Empire is a very complete single book RP game. I bought the core rule book and despite there being lots of extra material for it, I have never found any reason to buy it, its a very complete game.  Again there are desirable things but its very complete on its own.

Forbidden Stars.. very complete.  If they never make anything for it again, its a complete game, I don't think anything is missing.

 

I think the issue some people have is that they are a bit OCDish about the ownership of the game.  They buy a game and if an expansion is released, suddenly they see their game as incomplete.  But the reality is that for example a game like Cosmic encounters, even though their is half a dozen expansion comes with 50 races! ... You can play that game 50 times before you ever repeat.  I don't think anyone can argue incomplete here.

 

Its a silly notion.  FFG makes desirable products and they make them because the consumer demands them.  We crave expansions and expanded material for our favorite game and they provide it.  I can understand Eldritch Horror being a spiritual success to Arkham Horror that had like 20 expansions but I played Arkham Horror at least a dozen times without an expansion and I never felt anything was missing.

 

I really dont get this sentiment.

 

 

 

 

 

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Twilight Imperium xpacs turn a long game into a entire weekend. Rule upon rules. These xpacs are exactly why the player base for this game is extremely small. Or more likly people only play it a few times.

 

Kingsburg / Fury of Dracula / Rex (Dune) do not count as they are reprints of old games form other companies.

 

Cosmic Encounters is also a reprint but it has many xpacs, again all adding rubbish that no one ever uses. You go to a con and see Cosmic getting played then you see the base game maybe with the reward deck and the quake rules and that is about it. All those other things.. not used at all. People only buy them to get the aliens.

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The problems with adding more faction variations for the existing ones, is that they are already "out of character":

The Ultramarines play like Imperial Fists, really, with a strong fetish on fortifying everything, while the World Eaters work like Word Bearers, with their ability to get boons from all 4 chaos gods. I haven't played the orks yet, so I don't know whether they fit the theme of the Evil Sunz or not, and Iyanded seemed OK (but I don't know much about Eldar lore, so I can be misstaken), even though their wraithguard count is a bit low for such a craftworld. 

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The problems with adding more faction variations for the existing ones, is that they are already "out of character":

The Ultramarines play like Imperial Fists, really, with a strong fetish on fortifying everything, while the World Eaters work like Word Bearers, with their ability to get boons from all 4 chaos gods. I haven't played the orks yet, so I don't know whether they fit the theme of the Evil Sunz or not, and Iyanded seemed OK (but I don't know much about Eldar lore, so I can be misstaken), even though their wraithguard count is a bit low for such a craftworld. 

 

There is the additional problem of the colours of the plastic as well as the moldings.

 

However as you have stated they have already driven all over the lore anyway.  Having a Blood angel army with some kind of death company set of cards (discard troops to cause lots of damage etc) would change the Ultramarines considerably but a fists army would be more difficult as the Ultramarines are already parked there.

 

I believe the armies were selected on the plastic colours rather than what fitted the lore and if it sells not much else matters as like you said they have already broken lore.

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Maybe they will just add some combat cards from the other chapters to spice up the ultramarines I suppose? Hoping for full expansions with completely new races though (not that I won't pick up minor chapter/clan/etc. packs as well... =D)

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