engine techs and mines objective

[thanosazlin 52]

so tonight we played with the mines objective. i moved a corvette speed 3 maneuver with maneuver command dial then used engine techs to perform an extra maneuver 1.  so my oppenent claims i first do the maneuver speed 3 then if i hit a MINE , which I DID, then i roll 2 blues and resolve for the mine, THEN i get to use engine techs to perform the maneuver 1 that would have taken me clear of the mine.

 

i guess this makes sense, but i was hoping to use it all together. USE the maneuver command dial and engine techs to BOOST me past the  mine so i don't end my movement near it.

 

Thoughts??

[djizomdjinn 0]

Pretty sure maneuvers are resolved separately. Which means you can do things like ram twice, repair twice on a station, shoot in the middle of movement with Demolisher...

 

...and things like being forced to run over mines in your path. You win some, you lose some. Ideally, Engine Techs should have gotten you out of position to hit the mine in the first place.

[Lyraeus 4,759]

I disagree with this. The card states "if a ship ends it's movement. . . " That means the entire movement for that ship.

Now if it said "if a ship executes a maneuver that ends in range 1"

[DWRR 898]

After your ship performs a maneuver you end's it's movement, then Engines Techs allows it to move again.

 

In the same way that when a ship attacks twice per turn it attacks once, that attack ends and then it attacks again.

 

So the Corvette above would sadly hit the mines.

Edited July 1, 2015 by DWRR

[Green Knight 9,746]

Move --> Trigger mine --> Move again with Engine techs

[Ghost Dancer 401]

I agree with DWRR and Green Knight. Movement and Maneuver are terms used interchangeably in the RR. Plus you are making two separate moves, therefore the first move would trigger the mines (or any other effect that occurs when you end a move/maneuver).

[Lyraeus 4,759]

I disagree with you both. The card states "if a ship ends its movement..."

Now movement is 2 things minimum before it is completed. You determine course, then you execute a maneuver.

Engine techs let's you execute a second maneuver.

I am looking at this from the "end its movement" part. Since movement is the last thing that occurs before a ship is done with its turn (except demolisher of course) all movement needs to be completed.

Now it is possible that it is done after each executed maneuver, but that means you could hit 2 minefields.

The reason I even argue this is because of the obstacles rule. From what I have noticed, FFG does not use different terms interchangeably very often (ever?) so they are likely different in subtle ways

[Green Knight 9,746]

So there is a difference between 'movement' and 'a maneuver'?

[Lyraeus 4,759]

Currently they seem to be the same bit that is likely because there are plans to indivualize them.

I see the end of movement as no more maneuvers to execute.

[Lyraeus 4,759]

Hmmmm thinking about the Demolisher makes me think I am wrong. However, if I am right then Demolisher can't shoot then Engine techs away. . .

[Ghost Dancer 401]

So there is a difference between 'movement' and 'a maneuver'?

 

 

I don't think so. P11 of RR describes the "move step" where the ship performs a maneuver. This suggests move = maneuver.

[Lyraeus 4,759]

I think the follow up question is when does the movement step ended. Is it directly after a maneuver or can you combine an engine techs activation

[wtfboar 47]

Engine techs say right on the upgrade card; "after you execute a maneuver.' The Engine Techs speed 1 maneuver is a completely separate, second maneuver.

 

You would move - Roll dice for the mine - Engine Tech

[KommissarK 209]

I think the follow up question is when does the movement step ended. Is it directly after a maneuver or can you combine an engine techs activation

There is no "movement step." During a ship's activation, it does the following:

 

 

1 . Reveal Command Dial: Reveal the ship’s top

command dial. Choose whether to spend the dial

to gain the corresponding command token.

2 . Attack: Perform up to two attacks from different hull

zones.

3 . Execute Maneuver: Move the ship at the ship’s

current speed.

Engine Techs triggers upon the completion of Step 3, assuming the active ship resolved a Navigate command as well as exhausted the upgrade card after the initial maneuver.

[Lyraeus 4,759]

Yes I know this but is "after" directly so or at any point after you did such action.

While engine techs is a second maneuver, I am curious if it is considered combined with the original (like how command dials and tokens are) if so then it makes sense that Demolisher can not shoot until after the engine techs get activated (if they do)

If they are seperate and can be at any time after a maneuver was executed, then Demolisher could move shoot move

[KommissarK 209]

Yes I know this but is "after" directly so or at any point after you did such action.

While engine techs is a second maneuver, I am curious if it is considered combined with the original (like how command dials and tokens are) if so then it makes sense that Demolisher can not shoot until after the engine techs get activated (if they do)

If they are seperate and can be at any time after a maneuver was executed, then Demolisher could move shoot move

Well FFG has confirmed through a rules inquiry that it is possible to:

 

Shoot->Move->Shoot->Move

Shoot->Move->Move->Shoot

Shoot->Shoot->Move->Move

 

With Demolisher and Engine Techs.

[Lyraeus 4,759]

Though, currently they both say "after" and I believe you can stack them how you want. . .

[Lyraeus 4,759]

Yea, so then they are seperate and are not combined. This will be important in the future I think.

[Gibbobobo 44]

Whenever a rules uses the word after is it meant as immediately after. That im the rules reference in the timing section.

I think minefields is worded badly, it would of been better saying something similar to engine techs/demolisher such as 'After a ship executes a maneuver if it at distance 1 of an objective...'

[Gibbobobo 44]

On a related note. If you a had a Gladiator SD with the Demolisher title with 1 hull remaining. If does a move which lands it next to a mine token.

Are you able to attack before you roll the mine damage? Or is minefields worded that way because you have to check after the 'Move Ship' step which happens before Demolisher has chance to trigger?

Edited July 1, 2015 by Gibbobobo

[Lyraeus 4,759]

Damage first since it ended it's movement

[Ghost Dancer 401]

There is no "movement step." During a ship's activation, it does the following:

 

 

There is a movement 'sub-step' (which is part of the Execute Maneuver step). See RR P 11.

 

SHIP MOVEMENT

To execute a maneuver with a ship, its owner proceeds through the following steps:

1 . Determine Course: ...

2 . Move Ship: ...

[DWRR 898]

I would say mines triggers after the move ship sub step of a manoeuvre and demolished after the entire manoeuvre is completed.

Edited July 2, 2015 by DWRR

[DWRR 898]

Both slightly different triggers that for the most part could be identical.

1. Execute a manoeuvre

a) Determine Course

b) Move ship

- mines trigger here

Executing a manoeuvre is now complete

- Demolsher triggers here.

[Gibbobobo 44]

Both slightly different triggers that for the most part could be identical.

1. Execute a manoeuvre

a) Determine Course

b) Move ship

- mines trigger here

Executing a manoeuvre is now complete

- Demolsher triggers here.

 

That's what I was thinking, would could in theory mean the Demolisher is destroyed before being able to attack.