Rebel Captive Shenannigans

[fade_74 81]

• If a player forgets to declare a game effect during a specific timing window (such as declaring the target of Swarm Tactics at the start of the Combat phase), he may not execute that game effect at a latter time.

Doesn't this phrase solve the problem?  Rebel Captive says, "Once per round, the first ship that declares you as the target of an attack immediately receives 1 stress token."  To me that speaks of a specific timing window, when the first ship targets you.  If you allow the first ship to target you to go unstressed after declaring his attack, that should end the chain of events, as he may not execute that game effect at a latter time.  This also means, to me, that the player controlling the effect must declare it.  He can't just use the excuse that his opponent should have known to put a stress token on.  Just my 2 cents.

[StevenO 2,996]

• If a player forgets to declare a game effect during a specific timing window (such as declaring the target of Swarm Tactics at the start of the Combat phase), he may not execute that game effect at a latter time.

Doesn't this phrase solve the problem?  Rebel Captive says, "Once per round, the first ship that declares you as the target of an attack immediately receives 1 stress token."  To me that speaks of a specific timing window, when the first ship targets you.  If you allow the first ship to target you to go unstressed after declaring his attack, that should end the chain of events, as he may not execute that game effect at a latter time.  This also means, to me, that the player controlling the effect must declare it.  He can't just use the excuse that his opponent should have known to put a stress token on.  Just my 2 cents.

 

The player "controlling" the Rebel Captive does NOT need to declare it.  There is also no "allow" the attacking ship to take a Stress but rather is DOES take the Stress.  Rebel Captive is no more optional than rolling Defense when a ship is attacked.  BOTH players should note the effect but if both somehow miss it then it should still be applied if it can be done without causing a massive change in the state of the game.

 

I believe most of us (95%+) will say that failing to "remember" it until you are revealing dials during the next round is too late and should fall under "missed opportunities" but things start to differ when it comes to just how late is too late and who should be responsible for tracking the effect mandated by the game.

[ParaGoomba Slayer 3,180]

What if we just errated rebel captive to be optional, that way when someone forgets it, it doesn't cause a scene.

It wouldn't be half as powerful if it wasn't mandatory because half the time it's forgotten. It's irritating that I'm taking a stress from a card effect my opponent is forgetting half the time.

Also, from a thematic standpoint if I'm shooting at a ship with a friendly captive in it, but I forget about the PoW then I wouldn't be stressed out by it.

But nothing in this game should ever be errated, ever, besides for cards no one cares about like Daredevil because all the rules lawyers have a bug up their ass about a game with a 98% consistent set of rules.

[fade_74 81]

 

• If a player forgets to declare a game effect during a specific timing window (such as declaring the target of Swarm Tactics at the start of the Combat phase), he may not execute that game effect at a latter time.

Doesn't this phrase solve the problem?  Rebel Captive says, "Once per round, the first ship that declares you as the target of an attack immediately receives 1 stress token."  To me that speaks of a specific timing window, when the first ship targets you.  If you allow the first ship to target you to go unstressed after declaring his attack, that should end the chain of events, as he may not execute that game effect at a latter time.  This also means, to me, that the player controlling the effect must declare it.  He can't just use the excuse that his opponent should have known to put a stress token on.  Just my 2 cents.

 

The player "controlling" the Rebel Captive does NOT need to declare it.  There is also no "allow" the attacking ship to take a Stress but rather is DOES take the Stress.  Rebel Captive is no more optional than rolling Defense when a ship is attacked.  BOTH players should note the effect but if both somehow miss it then it should still be applied if it can be done without causing a massive change in the state of the game.

 

I believe most of us (95%+) will say that failing to "remember" it until you are revealing dials during the next round is too late and should fall under "missed opportunities" but things start to differ when it comes to just how late is too late and who should be responsible for tracking the effect mandated by the game.

 

 

I'm sorry, but I beg to differ.  If you have an upgrade, pilot ability, etc that affects the state of the game, then you should declare it.  I'm just reading the rule as it is written, not trying to quibble with you.  If he forgot to say "I've got a rebel captive, please take a stress." or something like that, then it's his missed opportunity.  Let's use swarm tactics, like the example used in the rulebook.  There is no "choice" to use the card there either, "at the start of the combat phase, choose one friendly ship at range one".  If you don't declare you are doing that, then it is a missed opportunity, and they even use that example in the rule.  I don't see how that differs from rebel captive.  

 

And as far as my opinion on just how late is to late?  When he makes an attack against another ship.  After all, rebel captive has an effect against the first ship, moving on to another attack, in my eyes, means it's to late to affect the first.

[Shaadea 258]

well, that opens some opportunities for dragging game time - since the cards are all the way over at the other side, I either have to ask my opponent constantly to make sure what upgrades the target has or (once he gets annoyed and not answering anymore) I walk over there and inspect his squad... :-)

 

 

I'm honestly curious why people think it's "Owner of the Rebel Captive is responsible for declaring it"?

 

Rebel Captive creates a game effect which affects a particular ship.  That ship is the attacker.  Honestly, if anything it seems like it should be the attacker's responsibility to remember the effect, since their ship is the one affected by it.  A lot of people seem to think that it's your card, so it's your responsibility - but how is it any different from (as several people have brought out as an example) going through a debris field?  Your ship become subject to a mandatory effect.  The rules make no distinction for the source of that effect - at no point in the rules do you have less responsibility for carrying out a mandatory effect from an opponent's ability vs. a mandatory effect when you interact with a neutral game element.

 

So what makes the owner bear more responsibility than the affected ship?  And what is the actual rules basis for that, or are we just playing Magic X-wing again?

[Tuls 215]

OK after reading some of this thread I have a question. Was this the first time the "Rebel Captive" ship was shot at?

 

If it's the first time then I put it on the Defender to know and state and therefore a missed opportunity. If it has already be used once the Attacker has no excuse for not knowing it.

 

The way I see it It's defender responsibility until first trigger. After that its on both players. But once the round is over and dials are being set that is your last chance to "Remember" that it happened. Once first dial gets revealed it's a missed opportunity from both sides.

[Stoneface 3,750]

I really don't understand why all the discussion. The rules state it plainly enough for even me to understand what and when an opportunity is missed. As to each player knowing what upgrades his opponent has, that's utter bull manure. You can make the argument for that in A game but during competitive play facing six or eight different players that's totally unreasonable. Unless you give each opponent a copy of your line up. Maybe that's what FFG should write into the rules. One copy for the TO and one for your opponent.

[Slugrage 5,011]

To sum up... Don't be a Richard.

[DR4CO 6,234]

As to each player knowing what upgrades his opponent has, that's utter bull manure. You can make the argument for that in A game but during competitive play facing six or eight different players that's totally unreasonable. Unless you give each opponent a copy of your line up. Maybe that's what FFG should write into the rules. One copy for the TO and one for your opponent.

 

How does the amount of games you've played matter? At the start of a game, walk around the table and take a look at your opponent's list. It will take you thirty seconds.

 

Or are you really trying to tell me that you go into each tournament match blind? The only thing unreasonable around here is the amount of people trying to claim the outright falsehood that they go into any game not knowing what the opponent is running.

Edited July 5, 2015 by DR4CO

[voidreturn 816]

As an unofficial rule of thumb for myself... The person most responsible for making sure an effect takes place is the one who gains an advantage from it.

This is how I generally rule as a TO as well. If the game state can be immediately fixed, it should. Otherwise the onus for Rebel Captive is on the person who triggers the game effect to make sure the game state is correct.

If either players cannot agree to this, then they have to roll for it.

[Tuls 215]

Or are you really trying to tell me that you go into each tournament match blind? The only thing unreasonable around here is the amount of people trying to claim the outright falsehood that they go into any game not knowing what the opponent is running.

 

Things run together sometimes. If you face similar lists it can be an easy over site (the first time it triggers).  

 

To me it is the ol saying. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. But in a tournament you should be paying attention to what your opponent has and not what you think they have. 

[Stoneface 3,750]

As to each player knowing what upgrades his opponent has, that's utter bull manure. You can make the argument for that in A game but during competitive play facing six or eight different players that's totally unreasonable. Unless you give each opponent a copy of your line up. Maybe that's what FFG should write into the rules. One copy for the TO and one for your opponent.

How does the amount of games you've played matter? At the start of a game, walk around the table and take a look at your opponent's list. It will take you thirty seconds.

Or are you really trying to tell me that you go into each tournament match blind? The only thing unreasonable around here is the amount of people trying to claim the outright falsehood that they go into any game not knowing what the opponent is running.

After playing 4 hours (4 games) and a 30 second look at the 5th players setup you're going to remember everything? If he's playing 4 Bs with AS I can see that. You might have a near eidetic memory but for the rest of us it becomes a long day. We're more interested in flying what we brought as well as we can. Let's ask the question from the other side. Is my opponent responsible for my cards? Is he to assume that because I have FCS that I want the free target lock on the ship I just attacked and remind me, "Hey, did you forget a TL?", or does he figure because I'm in a tournament I should know what I'm doing. If I have an ability that affects my opponent's attack I'm going to try and remember to use it and worry less if he remembers to roll an additional green for an obstructed attack. At what point do you stop worrying whether your opponent knows what he's flying and play the game, by the rules?

At this point I'm not skilled enough to be in a regional tourney. But if by some magic I found myself in such a tournament, I would try to fly the best I could and that includes utilising what ever upgrades I brought. I would also hope that my opponent was honorable enough not to try and pull some crap about a stress token that was supposed to be placed during combat after all combat is over and dials are being set. If I have to know my line up, my opponent's line up and monitor his moves so he doesn't cheat I don't want any part of the tournament scene. I'll fly casual and enjoy the game but without the BS that comes from having to babysit my opponent, his builds and his honesty.

I didn't mean to make this personl and for that I apologize. I realize that there are people out there that are classified as WAACs. Ive reached a point in my life that I don't have to tolerate that behavior. I won't knowingly place myself in a position where I have tolerate it. If it happens once it won't happen a second time.

Edited July 5, 2015 by Stoneface

[GML 124]

 

As an unofficial rule of thumb for myself... The person most responsible for making sure an effect takes place is the one who gains an advantage from it.

This is how I generally rule as a TO as well. If the game state can be immediately fixed, it should. Otherwise the onus for Rebel Captive is on the person who triggers the game effect to make sure the game state is correct.

If either players cannot agree to this, then they have to roll for it.

 

Except the official tournament rules state that if players can't agree, then the effect is lost.

[voidreturn 816]

 

 

As an unofficial rule of thumb for myself... The person most responsible for making sure an effect takes place is the one who gains an advantage from it.

This is how I generally rule as a TO as well. If the game state can be immediately fixed, it should. Otherwise the onus for Rebel Captive is on the person who triggers the game effect to make sure the game state is correct.

If either players cannot agree to this, then they have to roll for it.

 

Except the official tournament rules state that if players can't agree, then the effect is lost.

 

 

 

See, as a TO, I go back and read the rules very thoroughly and intently. The tournament rules give the TO a bit of discretion:

 

The Tournament Organizer (“TO”) is the final authority for all card interpretations, and may overrule the FAQ when, in the TO’s opinion, a mistake or error is discovered.

 

 

That means, as a TO, I can overrule the FAQ if the situation arises. Also, for clarification, here's what the FAQ says regarding this:

 

Missed Opportunities

Occasionally, players forget to resolve important effects during the course of a game. At competitive and premier events, once an opportunity is missed and play has proceeded past that timing window, the opportunity is lost:

 

• If a player forgets to perform an action with a ship and play has proceeded to the next ship (a dial has been revealed, a maneuver has been executed, etc.), that ship loses its chance to perform an action.

• If a player forgets to place a maneuver dial next to a ship, but tells his opponent he is ready to begin the round, once play has proceeded to the first ship (a dial has been revealed, a maneuver has been executed, etc.), he may no longer place a dial. Instead, when that ship activates, the player’s opponent chooses the maneuver that ship will perform. No actions may be taken before this maneuver, but play proceeds normally after the maneuver has been executed.

• If a player forgets to declare a game effect during a specific timing window (such as declaring the target of Swarm Tactics at the start of the Combat phase), he may not execute that game effect at a latter time.

 

 

So it doesn't really matter who it benefits and it doesn't really matter if it's debris field stress or Rebel Captive, their use of "game effect" covers everything the same. You have missed the opportunity to correct the game state and play continues as is. Also, it says nothing about not letting players be respectful and agreeing to the game state when a mistake is discovered. In fact, the good sportsman rule would encourage players to be respectful and agree to a corrective action when a mistake is discovered (obviously following the rules as much as possible).

 

Here's what the tournament rules have to say about this:

 

Missed Opportunities

Players are expected to play optimally, remembering to perform actions and use card effects when indicated. If a player forgets to use an effect during the timing specified by that effect, he cannot retroactively use it without the consent of his opponent. Players are expected to act with respect and not intentionally distract or rush an opponent with the intent of forcing a missed opportunity.

 

I tend to be slightly more lenient regarding this in that if the game state can be fixed, it should. Go back and watch Gencon 2014 finals; the same effect happened when Starslinger (I think it was him) forgot to assign his cloak token. His opponent agreed to go back and correct the game state, even though it heavily benefited Starslinger. Ultimately, I favor rules that make players agree (similar to how if they disagree about 3rd party templates, then they must agree to share a set).

[Tender Fiddles 58]

This happened to me at a tournament where we had just finished the attack phase and I said "that Z-95 has a stress because of Rebel Captive" and he said "missed opportunity" (because it wasn't right after the attack...even though  the game state had NOT changed) so I called the TO over who sided with my opponent that it was a missed opportunity.

 

I wish there was clarification because there is a difference between a "opportunity" (which is optional), and an effect (which is mandatory). By definition this situation isn't a "missed opportunity" because it's not optional to receive the stress (the attacker knows that if he attacks that ship, he gets a stress...to ignore that falls into unsportsmanlike conduct because you aren't following the rules (as others have pointed out is impossible to prove).

 

So the question is what to do if the game state has changed...to me it's a no brainer that you have to move on. But if you catch it before the gamestate has changed, I wish FFG would FAQ that you can still place the stress on the ship because, like I experienced an opponent who argues that it isn't his responsibility to put the stress there and if we have done anything else then it's "too late", and the TO is someone who sides with him, I really needed something to back me up.

[ScottieATF 2,867]

Bad TOs will be bad TOs until FFG introduces any standards for TOs, beyond "any one will do".

Edited July 6, 2015 by ScottieATF

[Buhallin 4,563]

 If I have an ability that affects my opponent's attack I'm going to try and remember to use it and worry less if he remembers to roll an additional green for an obstructed attack. At what point do you stop worrying whether your opponent knows what he's flying and play the game, by the rules?

If there are mandatory effects on the board and you're ignoring them, then you're not playing by the rules.  That's true whether you're intentionally "forgetting" the effect, or whether you just can't be bothered to know what's affecting the game.

 

X-wing's does not have a "your card, your responsibility" rule.  Nobody has cited one - Tezzas invented one and declared it the default, but does so without any actual support, as is his usual style.

 

I think it's simpler - if there's something in the game which affects your ship, it's your responsibility to remember it, and if there are mandatory effects it's the responsibility of both players to ensure they're carried out..  I've pointed out repeatedly that there's nothing to distinguish Rebel Captive's stress from a debris field.  Has anyone provided rules that say otherwise?  Rebel Captive does not actually affect the owner - it affects the opponent.  There is no declaration, no activation, it just happens.  It's no more an "opportunity" than flying over an obstacle.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Buhallin

[GML 124]

And yet you keep focusing on the whole "Opportunity" word in the title.  When you read the rule itself, it's clear that if the timing of an event is missed, whether optional or not, the table stands unless both opponents agree.  At what point do you draw the line?  We forgot the stress for either Rebel Captive or Debris, and we are in the combat phase of the next turn after the ship that should have been effected did a K-turn and killed an enemy ship.  Do we undo the whole turn and start from scratch, knowing the player wouldn't have done a K-turn with stress?  What if it were two turns later when people remembered?

 

Fact of the matter is, **** happens.  People make mistakes.  That's the joys of being human.  We may like to think that we will always remember every rule, for every opponent, all the time.  But it just ain't gonna happen.  In a tournament setting, you need a reliable and consistent method of dealing with such instances, and having the method work regardless of how soon it was caught.  That is why FFG has the Missed Opportunity rule.  It gives the player a set method on how to resolve conflicts.  Now, would it be ideal if people didn't try to abuse it and rectified the situation if it can be done so with ease?  Absolutely.  Is that going to happen?  Not on your life.

[Buhallin 4,563]

If we treat mandatory effects as "opportunities" for the owners, and correcting misses requires the full approval of both players, then negative effects just basically collapse.  Greedo, Console Fire, Inertial Dampeners, heck, even just simple red maneuvers and obstacles.  Every time I do a red maneuver and flip my next dial without putting the stress down first, it's a "missed opportunity" and it only comes into play if I agree it does.  At that point, the rules actively protect the cheaters.  Do you really think that's how it's meant to be played?

 

"Players are expected to play optimally" can only reasonably be applied to choices the players make, NOT to mechanical applications of the game system.  If we assume a fully-automated X-wing system, it's not a player's choice to take a damage roll after hitting an obstacle, or a stress token for Rebel Captive.  These things would be automated.  We lack that system, but placing a stress token after a specific maneuver is not "playing" the game, any more than handing the banker your money in Monopoly is "playing".  The play is in the decisions you make.  And that, IMHO, is what the "missed opportunities" rule is about.  It's "I could have used my Fire Control System there but didn't tell you I wanted to, do you mind if I take the lock?"  It's not "I just did something that could have killed my ship but didn't, I'm not going to go back to do it."

[Stoneface 3,750]

Buhallin,

Last nite I played 4 games against 3 different lists in about 3.5 hours. Rebel Captive was in several of the lists. The effect was missed several times at the time of the attack but was caught before the combat round ended and was applied. No problem there. I mention this because it was in the comfort and quiet of my home with the air conditioner being the only source of extraneous noise. My opponent had Lone Wolf that he failed to use several times because he forgot pure and simple. Change the setting to a flgs with a dozen players with all the associated noise and the environment has changed dramatically. Add an additional six games with 12 additional players and noise level increases geometrically again. X-wing Isn't chess where the only sounds are pieces being moved and clocks being slapped. Rules aren't ignored and we're not conveniently 'forgetting' them but as someone above pointed out stuff happens. In the case of the debris field the ship should've taken the stress token. The case of rebel captive is nonsense. It's apparent that the opponent was trying to ambush the other player.

What I'm trying to say is, if both players are honest and fly what they brought there's no problem. Stuff gets missed and is either caught and corrected or it's taken as an "oh crap" moment and accepted. On the other hand if one of the players is a WAAC player then the system can break down. And it will simply because the one player is a WAAC job.

There's another thread about how often do you remind another player about his abilities. If he's a noob, a lot. However, when at a competition of regionals and above you expect your opponent to know what's what. You also have certain expectations of fair and honest play. Evidently with some players that is too much to expect.

[TezzasGames 1,014]

So we all agree that the OP described a "missed opportunity" and that the game should continue.

Awesome.

[Smuggler 556]

If we treat mandatory effects as "opportunities" for the owners, and correcting misses requires the full approval of both players, then negative effects just basically collapse.  Greedo, Console Fire, Inertial Dampeners, heck, even just simple red maneuvers and obstacles.  Every time I do a red maneuver and flip my next dial without putting the stress down first, it's a "missed opportunity" and it only comes into play if I agree it does.  At that point, the rules actively protect the cheaters.  Do you really think that's how it's meant to be played?

 

Consider this part towards the end of the Competitive play section:

 

 

 These rules are not intended to punish players, or encourage players to rush through timing windows in order to deny their opponent an opportunity.

Players must allow their opponents ample time to perform actions, execute maneuvers, and declare game effects.

 

[voidreturn 816]

If we treat mandatory effects as "opportunities" for the owners, and correcting misses requires the full approval of both players, then negative effects just basically collapse.  Greedo, Console Fire, Inertial Dampeners, heck, even just simple red maneuvers and obstacles.  Every time I do a red maneuver and flip my next dial without putting the stress down first, it's a "missed opportunity" and it only comes into play if I agree it does.  At that point, the rules actively protect the cheaters.  Do you really think that's how it's meant to be played?

 

"Players are expected to play optimally" can only reasonably be applied to choices the players make, NOT to mechanical applications of the game system.  If we assume a fully-automated X-wing system, it's not a player's choice to take a damage roll after hitting an obstacle, or a stress token for Rebel Captive.  These things would be automated.  We lack that system, but placing a stress token after a specific maneuver is not "playing" the game, any more than handing the banker your money in Monopoly is "playing".  The play is in the decisions you make.  And that, IMHO, is what the "missed opportunities" rule is about.  It's "I could have used my Fire Control System there but didn't tell you I wanted to, do you mind if I take the lock?"  It's not "I just did something that could have killed my ship but didn't, I'm not going to go back to do it."

 

I think you misunderstand how these rules work. It states that players (that means both) are to remember to take actions and trigger effects during their timing window. That means it is your opponents responsibility to ensure the game state is correct as well. It does not protect the cheaters as cheating is grounds for immediate disqualification (see Unsportsmanlike Conduct, which covers a wide range of bad behavior). Also, when mistakes are identified, the player that catches it must notify the other and it should be corrected as best as possible.

 

For example, look at the rule regarding knocking over ships. It states that the player that knocks over a ship must place it back as best as possible, but their opponent has final say on the position, yet they also have to attempt to match the correct position as best as possible. Both players are clearly responsible for correcting the error. This does not protect cheaters in any way.

 

If you find your opponent is actively forgetting negative effects and you are correcting him, notify the TO so they can keep a closer eye on the player. As long as you are doing your job to verify the game state, no cheating has occurred, but the TO may find willful intent in other games. However, the player may have been tired and making mistakes because they've been playing the game for 12 hours (I challenge you to fly a swarm in a large tournament and no make mistakes by the end).

 

The point of the Missed Opportunity rule is similar to rules from other games. Mistakes happen, correct them as best as possible, and continue play. Throwing a tantrum because you neglected to inform your opponent they were shooting at a Rebel Captive doesn't go any good to you, your opponent, the game, the tournament, or the community. Accept your mistake and move on.

[StevenO 2,996]

So we all agree that the OP described a "missed opportunity" and that the game should continue.

Awesome.

 

 

Taking everything the OP said at face value and in THAT particular circumstance I do believe that most of us will go with it as a "missed opportunity" however we are further discussing why it is and why it is should NOT have happened in the first place.

[Buhallin 4,563]

Rebel Captive was in several of the lists. The effect was missed several times at the time of the attack but was caught before the combat round ended and was applied. No problem there. I mention this because it was in the comfort and quiet of my home with the air conditioner being the only source of extraneous noise. My opponent had Lone Wolf that he failed to use several times because he forgot pure and simple.

Lone Wolf is different because it's optional, which means you have the choice to activate it or not.  Such abilities are pretty universally beneficial to the player, or in cases where it's not beneficial they wouldn't have activated it anyway so forgetting doesn't change anything.

 

I honestly don't have much sympathy for the "It's too loud and I can't keep track of my opponent's stuff!"  I understand the viewpoint, but it doesn't have anything to do with the rules.  Yes, it can get loud and distracting, but you're still expected to remember mandatory effects.  I'm honestly baffled that people argue that expecting players to play optimally means remembering to tell your opponent to apply a mandatory effect, but expecting you to know what happens when you pick a target is beyond reason.  Flying around and shooting at anything without knowing what goes off if you do seems pretty non-optimal to me.

 

There's another thread about how often do you remind another player about his abilities. If he's a noob, a lot. However, when at a competition of regionals and above you expect your opponent to know what's what. You also have certain expectations of fair and honest play. Evidently with some players that is too much to expect.

The point which I (and others) are trying to make is that there's no "reminding" your opponent to activate Rebel Captive.  It's not an optional ability - it just happens.  The responsibility for ensuring that ability is carried out belongs to both players equally.

 

And of course that's too much to expect from certain players.  That's why we have rules, because there are jerks out there that will try to cheat.  The rules should create an environment which catches and punishes that, not one that makes it as easy as possible.

 

 

 

 

Consider this part towards the end of the Competitive play section:

 

 

 These rules are not intended to punish players, or encourage players to rush through timing windows in order to deny their opponent an opportunity.

Players must allow their opponents ample time to perform actions, execute maneuvers, and declare game effects.

 

None of this applies if the "Your card, your responsibility" holds.  Yes, I have to allow my opponent time to perform actions or declare effects.  But if we go by this rule, my opponent has no say in the matter - even if it's a mandatory effect it's my card, so it's my "opportunity" to declare, not his.  And if I move quickly past it, accidentally or otherwise, I can easily refuse to allow it to be fixed because we only go back to fix it if it's both players.

 

 

I think you misunderstand how these rules work. It states that players (that means both) are to remember to take actions and trigger effects during their timing window. That means it is your opponents responsibility to ensure the game state is correct as well.

This is actually what I've been saying all along.  The post was about the environment created by the "Your card, your responsibility" idea some are suggesting (which I believe is incorrect).  Please try and catch up with the context before diving in.