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In a hypothetical '2nd edition' game, what would you change?

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The TL rules have never been changed throughout th entire run of the game, so FFG must think it's part of the strategy to 'abuse' the action to see if some obstacles or ships are within a certain range. You just don't get real obvious with it. Same with bumping and fortresses, it's a troll strategy but FFG allows it, so I doubt it would ever be 'fixed' in 2.0.

I would have never had primary turrets and gone with the 1300 having 0 attack dice like the Transport, then you stock it with hard point turrets. The falcon should have been treated more like a huge ship anyway, especially with the silly way it can zoom around the board with EU. Sounds pretty complicated, though, and I like my X Wing to be simple.

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I hate the Lupin the third anime style of animation that doesn't mean they are bad movies just that i dislike that particular style.

 

It's TV a big part of it is the visuals and if you don't like it's style then it becomes alot harder to watch.

lupin-harhar.gif

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Id like to see FFG ease up on the power creep a bit and somehow reward players for using certain rarely used ships.

What about a theme for certain events where you get bonus squad pts to spend on your squad if it includes ship X for each faction.

This would make the game ore thematic. Rogue Squadron event anyone? 

I mean there are new 'crappy ships' as well which you probably have to buy to get the new upgrades, 2 autothrusters anyone?

Im talking about giving some incentive for playing X-Wings and other 'not so commonly seen' ships again. Specific pilots too, why not include them in a theme tournament so you have a reason to play Porkins or other rarely seen pilots. The tie-advanced is going to see a resurgence soon so it will be getting some much needed love, im meaning the 'weaker' ships that are sitting in peoples collections collecting dust.

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Didnt read the posts, excuse my ignorance, but I would like to see Pilots flying multiple ships (i.e. Corran in having the ability to fly in an Xwing, or Ewing etc.)  Maybe different stats or something... 

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The game's pretty much perfect as it is.  I don't want extra dice, or sliding points, or extra fire arcs, or a "momentum" style system for changing range bands, or anything like that....I'd just make some slightly tinkering changes.

 

1. Adjust points costs (1 or 2 points here or there) because that's necessary. Just a minor rebalance.

2. Make the HWK Attack 2.  Not huge but it means it can survive without a turret.

3. Change Ordnance so that you never spend focus/locks to fire, and can use an action on a following turn to "reload" that rocket/missile/torpedo.

4. Get someone to design some well balanced scenarios for tournaments and replace the current system with those.

 

I don't want to see things added for the sake of narrative, 3d systems, or massive reworks because at its very core the beating heart of X-Wing is a truly phenomenal game.  The main reason you'd do a reprint in future would be to put the current errata onto the mainline cards, and also have a rulebook that includes all the rules from the expansions.

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i thought of something else i'd like to see in a new edition or an 'advanced rules' set.

 

A scatter die and a template for asteroids and debris moving after or before each turn.

 

That would really shake up some peoples strategies.

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I'd prefer it if the game reflects the movies and common lore a bit better.

The most important change I'd like to see is that there should basically be two kinds of ships: specialists and generalists. The designers should use some kind of mathematical model a la mathwing, and make sure that the generalists simply have the best values overall, while the specialists aren't very good in a general sense but excel in a specific role, like the HWK does now. TIE Bombers and B-Wings would be good against large and huge ships, A-Wings and TIE Interceptors should be flanking dogfighters, etc.

Typical generalists would be Y-Wings, E-Wings and above all X-Wings, who deserve to have the best average value. The effect should be that if you know what you are going to face, you can do well with a specialist ship, but if you don't know what your opponent will choose, or you have to fight against different opponents, a generalist is probably a better choice.

Smaller changes that I think are warranted are maybe the way boosting works for large ships and switching the names of Assault Missiles and Cluster Missiles. I'd also like it if avoiding obstacles was a function of pilot skill. Maybe huge ships also deserve to be a bit tougher, i.e. more hull.

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1. Power Management - Each ship has, like, a power rating and a dashboard with token slots. (I'm not explaining this well and I don't have time to make a pitchur.)

 

So you have an energy track for three basic characteristics: Attack Dice, Shields, Agility - Hull is static and dependent on the ship.

 

Rather than fixed stats, an X-wing gets (for example) seven tokens to assign during a Power Management Phase.

ATTACK:   XXX__

SHIELDS:  XX___

AGILITY:   XX___

 

A player might normally run their X-wing with 3 Attack, 2 Shields, and 2 Agility, but during the Power Management Phase, you can move up to two (?) tokens to a different category. Wedge has a really good shot at this guy and really wants to get the job done, so he draws one token off shields and one off agility to boost his power for a crushing blow. Luke doesn't have a good shot, but a number of Interceptors have a bead on him, so he boosts his shields and/or agility - that sort of thing. Actually, if you could only shift one token during Power Management, then you get to deal with continued vulnerabilities - if you maxed out your Attack and sacrificed Agility, you would be exposed until you could even things out again.

 

Hits to shielded ships remove tokens from the shields track on the dashboard - if there are any there - but you can regain one power token at the end of the turn (up to a ship max value) if the ship hasn't been destroyed.

 

Something like that. Each ship type might have a maximum amount of Attack/Shields/Agility on their dashboard, Modification cards allow increased max values and/or an extra power token for the dashboard. Special crits could hamper power management. I can see a lot of fun things here.

 

2. Break the ship token into quadrants - Incoming hits to the side arcs get an Agility bonus. Turreted ships have to pick a quadrant to point at at the end of the movement phase by use of a jobber that clips onto the peg. Gunner upgrades allow the player to rotate the chosen quadrant by one step at the start of the combat phase? 

 

3. Ordnance - Re-usable (depending on ship/ordinance). Roll dice to hit, like now, but on a successful hit cancel ALL dice results and do a set amount of damage/effect.

 

4. ... I swear I had another when I started... 

 

 

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Grander scope. Capital ships would be the focus. Instead of individual starfighters, I would be controlling squadrons (maybe led by a single elite pilot). X-Wings would be really good generalists. Wait...

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1. Power Management - Each ship has, like, a power rating and a dashboard with token slots. (I'm not explaining this well and I don't have time to make a pitchur.)

 

So you have an energy track for three basic characteristics: Attack Dice, Shields, Agility - Hull is static and dependent on the ship.

 

Rather than fixed stats, an X-wing gets (for example) seven tokens to assign during a Power Management Phase.

ATTACK:   XXX__

SHIELDS:  XX___

AGILITY:   XX___

 

A player might normally run their X-wing with 3 Attack, 2 Shields, and 2 Agility, but during the Power Management Phase, you can move up to two (?) tokens to a different category. Wedge has a really good shot at this guy and really wants to get the job done, so he draws one token off shields and one off agility to boost his power for a crushing blow. Luke doesn't have a good shot, but a number of Interceptors have a bead on him, so he boosts his shields and/or agility - that sort of thing. Actually, if you could only shift one token during Power Management, then you get to deal with continued vulnerabilities - if you maxed out your Attack and sacrificed Agility, you would be exposed until you could even things out again.

 

Hits to shielded ships remove tokens from the shields track on the dashboard - if there are any there - but you can regain one power token at the end of the turn (up to a ship max value) if the ship hasn't been destroyed.

 

Something like that. Each ship type might have a maximum amount of Attack/Shields/Agility on their dashboard, Modification cards allow increased max values and/or an extra power token for the dashboard. Special crits could hamper power management. I can see a lot of fun things here.

 

2. Break the ship token into quadrants - Incoming hits to the side arcs get an Agility bonus. Turreted ships have to pick a quadrant to point at at the end of the movement phase by use of a jobber that clips onto the peg. Gunner upgrades allow the player to rotate the chosen quadrant by one step at the start of the combat phase? 

 

3. Ordnance - Re-usable (depending on ship/ordinance). Roll dice to hit, like now, but on a successful hit cancel ALL dice results and do a set amount of damage/effect.

 

4. ... I swear I had another when I started... 

That would probably be really good idea on a 3-6 players game, where every player controls a single ship. In that case the extra complexity would be balanced out by the reduced amount of choices per player per turn. Interesting!

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An addendum to my earlier changes. Torpedoes and missiles would be upgraded that basically always function like cannons and that's, but by spending one of a few ammo tokens you get a one shot effect.

Proton Torpedoes. Ammo 2. Range 2-3.

Attack(target lock): Firepower 4.

Ammo:Spend one ammo token from this card to add one crit to your roll before rolling.

Now that's got layers to it. I'm actually kinda proud of that.

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An addendum to my earlier changes. Torpedoes and missiles would be upgraded that basically always function like cannons and that's, but by spending one of a few ammo tokens you get a one shot effect.

Proton Torpedoes. Ammo 2. Range 2-3.

Attack(target lock): Firepower 4.

Ammo:Spend one ammo token from this card to add one crit to your roll before rolling.

Now that's got layers to it. I'm actually kinda proud of that.

This could work. It addresses the action economy by not spending the TL. I think I would still rather see the attack dice cancelled and a number of hits/crits be assigned depending on the warhead. That way Proton Torpedoes could have 3 attack dice but give 2 (or three) crits when a hit is scored, while concussion missiles could have 5 attack dice but only give 3 hits.

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Well with the way I currently have it, if combined with a marksmanship like ability you could score three hits and a crit on your dice and a second crit from already spending the ammo. So we'd have a five hit attack with two crits in the pool.

It also solved the limited shots issue. If we assume that we're also putting in a clause that says the upgrade gets discarded when the last ammo token is discarded. Which doesn't even have to be on the card since it's going to be standard to the type of upgrade. As it is written you could use it infinitely. But since there's no downside to using the ammo, you would rarely have a reason to not use the ammo. And as it's written, you don't even need to have a lock or be using the attack mode to use the ammo! Allowing your ship to 'snap shot' munitions at close range with a dumb fire. That's my favorite part of this design as it stands.

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Really, other than a couple minor stat changes for certain ships and some quirky card costs for their abilities (ordinance being the biggest ones) most things can be fixed with future upgrades and abilities like they've been doing.  However, the one thing that has bothered me completely, and still does, is the Millenium Falcon title.  Really, what the Millenium Falcon title should provide is this: 

 

+1 Attack

+2 Hull

+1 Shield

Action Bar gains the Evade Action

 

That means that the stat lines and costs for the YT-1300 pilots should look like this:

 

Outer Rim Smuggler PS1 (2-1-6-4) = 27 pts.

Chewbacca PS5 (2-1-6-4) = 31 pts.

Lando Calrissian PS7 (2-1-6-4) = 33 pts.

Han Solo PS9 (2-1-6-4) = 35 pts.

 

Which means that the Millenium Falcon title costs a substantial 12 pts. and is, of course, unique.  Meaning, that there is only ONE Millenium Falcon in the universe and thus you don't have silly theme breaking lists with Chewie and Lando flying 2 tricked out Millemium Falcon-lites (only without the evade action ability but with the same boosted stat lines).  The point equivalents remain the same as the current game, but you're only allowed 1 real Millenium Falcon, as it should be.  If they ever made any type of ret-con fixes to this game, this is what I would want.  Unfortunately, this would require 3 new pilot card prints, 1 new MF title card print, and 3 new prints for the equivalent cardboard bases which means that a fix like this is almost a complete impossibility.  Still, this is the one thing I would applaud to see changed.

 

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Really, other than a couple minor stat changes for certain ships and some quirky card costs for their abilities (ordinance being the biggest ones) most things can be fixed with future upgrades and abilities like they've been doing.  However, the one thing that has bothered me completely, and still does, is the Millenium Falcon title.  Really, what the Millenium Falcon title should provide is this: 

 

+1 Attack

+2 Hull

+1 Shield

Action Bar gains the Evade Action

 

That means that the stat lines and costs for the YT-1300 pilots should look like this:

 

Outer Rim Smuggler PS1 (2-1-6-4) = 27 pts.

Chewbacca PS5 (2-1-6-4) = 31 pts.

Lando Calrissian PS7 (2-1-6-4) = 33 pts.

Han Solo PS9 (2-1-6-4) = 35 pts.

 

Which means that the Millenium Falcon title costs a substantial 12 pts. and is, of course, unique.  Meaning, that there is only ONE Millenium Falcon in the universe and thus you don't have silly theme breaking lists with Chewie and Lando flying 2 tricked out Millemium Falcon-lites (only without the evade action ability but with the same boosted stat lines).  The point equivalents remain the same as the current game, but you're only allowed 1 real Millenium Falcon, as it should be.  If they ever made any type of ret-con fixes to this game, this is what I would want.  Unfortunately, this would require 3 new pilot card prints, 1 new MF title card print, and 3 new prints for the equivalent cardboard bases which means that a fix like this is almost a complete impossibility.  Still, this is the one thing I would applaud to see changed.

Errata:

Han, Chewie and Lando cards should all add the following: Must take Millenium Falcon Title.

There, fixed it. Didn't even need to print new cards.

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The game is great, I'm not sure it needs many changes at all.  

The one thing I would suggest for a 2nd edition is an alteration to the way Pilot Skill works.  I think that is an issue with the game currently.  Consider this:  Soontir Fel at PS9 is going to be god like when compared to a PS1 academy pilot or a PS2 Rookie Xwing, and he should be.  But, PS9 Soontir Fel has the same advantage against a PS2 Rookie Pilot that he does against a PS8 Luke Skywalker.  A ship that has a very large difference in Pilot Skill should always be able to dominate a ship with the lower pilot skill.  Fel should always be able to outmaneuver and outshoot a cheap generic.  But, when there is a very small difference in pilot skill between 2 pilots, the advantage shouldn't be the same.  Fel shouldn't have the same advantages vs Luke that he has against a cheap generic.  Sometimes, Luke should be able to move after Fel and shoot before him, but a PS2 Rookie should never be able to move after or shoot before Fel.  A PS6 Aggressor should rarely move after and shoot before Fel, but it should happen maybe once a game.

I'm not sure how to mechanically make it work, I fear it would get too complicated for Xwing's relative simplicity.  But, I find a flaw in the notion that you could spend points on a pilot skill, and if you are beaten by even 1 PS, you've completely wasted your points on that bid.  Higher PS ships should have an advantage for sure, but I don't think it should always be the absolute advantage that it currently is.  This problem is generally observed to be the reason we don't see many PS4-7 ships on the tables (the IG88s being an exception).  I don't see that problem changing with the advantages high PS mobility allows.

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The game is great, I'm not sure it needs many changes at all.  

The one thing I would suggest for a 2nd edition is an alteration to the way Pilot Skill works.

I was thinking along those lines when I suggested that collisions with objects are determined by PS. That would be a start. In any case, one could write a scenario where damage from overlapping an asteroid is determined by rolling a D12 - if you roll above the PS value, you suffer 1 damage.

I don't immediately see an easy system for making PS influence the actual fighting more.

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@ Rinehart. Pilot skill is the one thing I absolutely would not change. Or reference more @ Lingula for skill checks or anything else. Because as it stands it represents the skill gap quite nicely when you take into consideration how it interacts with all the other components, the damage deck being cheif among them. If you made the difference in PS a sliding scale factor, the impact of the damage decks PS altering effects also become sliding scale. Further, making PS have varying effect as references to a another means you probably won't have any reason to ever take a generic since it would punish you so much more. Having it stand as I'm either better than you or worse than you is actually a very eloquent mechanic in my opinion. Plus it then had the interesting effect of highlighting the players skill, a new player behind a Soontir is in play very different from an experienced player when there's no other mechanics to get in the way of that demonstration.

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I would like to see it mostly to consolidate the actions/rules in expansions. A good example would be a section on titles, modifications, etc. Put in the errata for cloaking, as well as things like segnors loop, et all.

I would really like all the expansion missions under one roof, in like a missions supplement (with reference to which expansions have what tokens required :))

Also rules for huge ships with errata under the main rules as well.

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@ Rinehart. Pilot skill is the one thing I absolutely would not change. Or reference more @ Lingula for skill checks or anything else. Because as it stands it represents the skill gap quite nicely when you take into consideration how it interacts with all the other components, the damage deck being cheif among them. If you made the difference in PS a sliding scale factor, the impact of the damage decks PS altering effects also become sliding scale. Further, making PS have varying effect as references to a another means you probably won't have any reason to ever take a generic since it would punish you so much more. Having it stand as I'm either better than you or worse than you is actually a very eloquent mechanic in my opinion. Plus it then had the interesting effect of highlighting the players skill, a new player behind a Soontir is in play very different from an experienced player when there's no other mechanics to get in the way of that demonstration.

 

We are discussing potential changes we may like to see in a version 2 of Xwing.  If any changes were made to how pilot skill interacts, I would expect changes to how other components interact to account for that as well.

 

I disagree that the PS mechanic eloquently takes skill into account.  In most comparisons of skill between people, pilots, or whatever someone can be measurable better.  This is represented by the Pilot Skill.  But, even if someone can be shown to be measurable better than someone else, that rarely translates into absolute and total domination at that skill.

Let's consider a 1v1 basketball game.  A professional all star player will nearly always beat the undrafted rookie player.  The all star player is better enough that for the undrafted rookie to win, the all star has to make a mistake.  But, let's consider what happens when the all star goes up against another player, that is a veteran team captain, and just misses making the all star team by a few votes.  By any measure, the all star player is better.  But, the all star is not so much better than the veteran that the veteran needs the all star to make a mistake to win.  The veteran is no slouch at all, he has the skill to beat the all star player, but the all star will still win the large majority of the games.  The all star will regularly beat the veteran, but to a much lesser degree than he would the undrafted rookie.  I liken that comparision to Fel vs the Rookie and Fel vs Luke.  Fel shouldn't get the same advantages against Luke that he does against the Rookie.

 

Like I stated in my original post, I'm not sure there is a simple way to achieve anything different with Pilot Skill.  I love simple solutions, and if my suggestion were to require something complicated to be implemented, then I would be against it entirely.  But, I do think the absolute comparison the game makes with regard to PS is squeezing out the mid PS pilots.

 

The game has turned a big corner in terms of post movement repositioning.  Almost every ship is capable of some sort of post movement repositioning.  PS is a huge deal when performing post movement repositioning.  If you are moving last, and can make large repositions, your advantage is immeasurable.  Shooting first or second as it pertains to PS isn't the big issue, it's repositioning.  Perhaps the easiest way is to treat all repositioning as a seperate phase of the game.  And from there the higher PS ships usually get to move last, but maybe not always.

 

I don't think this is an issue screaming for a fix, but if they were to release a second edition or version, I think a reconsideration on the PS mechanic would be worthwhile.

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[Have I entered a parallel universe where the word 'eloquent' means something different from what I always thought? Hmmm...]

I'm kind of sensitive to the argument that Vader is better against a rookie pilot and against Luke to an equal degree, barring pilot abilities. And there are game balance arguments for making every point of PS pay off in some way, that would help the PS 4-7 pilots. I don't have much in the sense of rule mechanics to suggest for this, though. In fact what I suggested earlier was more something I had in mind for a scenario, like one about a group of imperials chasing an YT-1300 through an asteroid field.

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Based on this thread and the pure  tactical awesomeness that is Armada. The last couple of exwing games have been very dull and flat affairs due to the gameplay feeling Armada provides. So I decided to make a new set of house rules for the friendly games in order to that adds a lot more tactical depth to X-wing. The game becomes a bit heavier but with much more tactical choice.

 

Comments ar more than welcome: 

 

X-wing house rules

 

 

Turreted ships:

Balancing for turreted ships (360 degrees):

 

  1. Turrets do not get +1 attack die as range modification at range 1 when the target is NOT in the  front arc .

 

Firing:

More tactical choices about positioning and maneuvering which to provide a more tactical  more dogfight feeling: These rules apply for primary weapons only.

 

  1. Attackers Front arc fires at defender Rear Arc:
    1. Attacker may re-roll 1 attack die (alternatively + 1 attack die)

 

  1. Attakers front arc fires at side arc of defender
    1. Defender may re- roll 1 defence die (alternatively  + 1 defence die)

 

Maneuvering:

More flexibility while adding more consequence from earlier choices  = Restricted options to choose maneuvering + inertia .

 

  1. Acceleration and deceleration:
    1. When selecting a maneuver you may only select a maneuver with a speed value of up +/- 2 more or less than the last selected maneuver.
      1. Example: A Tie interceptor has made a 5 straight maneuver. The next turn it may only select maneuvers with a speed value of 3-5.
    2. When performing a boost action add one speed step to the dial.
    3. Example: A tie Interceptor moves at speed 3 and takes a boost action – The dial is now turned to show a speed 4 maneuver affecting the speeds available for the next turn.
  2. Maneuver selection
    1. When you reveal a maneuver, you may rotate your dial to another maneuver with the same speed. Treat that maneuver as a red maneuver.

 

Note: Same as all ships having a free “Stay on target upgrade” regardless of elite skills etc.

 

Torpedoer and missiles

Another mechanism and a new role for stand-off weapons.

 

  1. Torpedo and missile range:
    1. All Missiles and torpedoes have their max Range expanded with two range bands. ( ie : Proton torpedo now have a range of 2-5.

 

  1. All ships can target lock at a range matching the range of missile weapons carried as long as the weapon is equipped.

 

  1. Torpedo and missile movement
    1. Torpedoes and missiles can attack a target within range 3 in the round they are fired.

 

  1. If the target is at range 4-5 a torpedo/missile weapon marker is placed at distance 3 from the ship firing the weapon. The weapon marker is placed in a straight line between the attacker and the defender. Mark the weapon marker and the target with matching target lock markers.
    1. In round 2 the torpedo/missile will attack the target if the target is within the remaining range of the weapon.  The attack uses the PS of the originating attacking ship in order to determine the order of attacks.
    2. A pilot may not spend any tokens to modify the attack dice on a missile or torpedo attacking in round 2. 

 

Example: A B-wing uses a Proton torpedo (Range 2-5) to attack an incoming TIE Bomber at range 5. In turn 1 a torpedo marker is placed at a distance of range 3 from the B-Wing with a target lock marker on the torpedo and the target. In round 2 the Torpedo attacks the Bomber assuming it is still within range.

 

  1. If a missile weapon completely misses its target during the first round of attack then place the missile marker between the rear guides of the base of the defending ship. The missile is now considered to have used 3 of its total range allowance. The missile will attempt to attack the defender again in the second round of attack if the weapon is still within the remaining range allowance of the missile. This second attack applies to missiles only and not torpedoes.  Exeption to this rule: Assault missiles do not turn around  for another attack.

 

Example: A TIE Advanced fires an Ion Pulse missile (range 2-5) at the millennium Falcon. The Falcon succeeds in turning the side to the incoming missile thus doubling the value of the single evade result rolled and by spending an evade token it has a total defense result of 3 evades. The missile misses completely having now used 3 of its total range of 5. A Missile marker is placed between the rear guides of the base of the falcon. During the second round and the missile relentlessly attacks the Falcon again assuming that the Falcon has not moved out of the remaining missile range of 2.

 

  1. Evading torpedoes and missiles
    1. If a missile weapon is attacking from the rear arch add 1 attack dice to the attack value of the weapon.
    2. If a missile or torpedo weapon is attacking the side arc of a defender then double the value of any evade results rolled when defending.

Example: In turn 2 The TIE Bomber turns the side to the incoming Torpedo in order to better evade.  A result of 2 evades is rolled on the 2 defense dice but as the TIE bomber has its side turned this value of each die is doubled to a total result of 4 evades.

 

 

Epic ships and defence against missiles

 

Point defence:

If huge ships are carrying a sensor team and Quad Lasers at the same time they can target missiles and torpedoes within range using the Quad lasers. The incoming weapon is considered to have an agility value of 2 and a hull value of 1.

 

  •  

An incoming missile or torpedo can be jammed using a Jam action if the weapon is within range. Roll 5 attack dice. Each Hit or Crit removes 1 attack die from the incoming weapon. If the attack value is reduced to 0 no attack takes place.

A freguency jammer allows for one more Jam action in the same turn wihin range 1 of the incoming weapon.

 

Ionization Reactor:

Firing off an ionization reactor destroys all missiles or torps within range.

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