Game of Thrones Season 5 Finale(Spoilers)

[TasteTheRainbow 8,726]

Couple websites now claiming he's already been seen in the place where Wall and north scenes are filmed in the last couple days. Novel-readers had to worry about Jon for how many years? Show-watchers didn't even last a week!

[FTS Gecko 24,135]

Couple websites now claiming he's already been seen in the place where Wall and north scenes are filmed in the last couple days. Novel-readers had to worry about Jon for how many years? Show-watchers didn't even last a week!

 

The directors and the actor himself are claiming otherwise.

 

"Jon Snow is dead.  Deader than dead.".

 

As a Bioware fan, that instantly leaves me thinking  "ORLY?  What about Jon Stark?  Jon Baratheon?  Jon Targaryen?"

 

"Night gathers, and now my watch begins.  It shall not end until my death..."

"What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger..."

 

Oh, GoT.  Let's just hope the Night's Watch don't burn the corpse.

[TasteTheRainbow 8,726]

I kinda hope they do. With Melisandre around that might be where he stands up again.

[Gadge 4,294]

I think thats the point.

 

while Kit Harrington has said *jon snow* is 'dead' he's also renewed his contract for season 7...

 

So that is either a heck of a lot of flashbacks or he's coming back in some form.

[TasteTheRainbow 8,726]

If he had been spotted with his head shaved we would have our answer for sure.

[TasteTheRainbow 8,726]

Odds that Jon stays dead: pretty much 0

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/06/jon-snow-alive-game-of-thrones-comic-con?mbid=social_facebook

[WarriorPoet 352]

Oh man, I'd love to watch me some Arthur Dayne swordfighting!

[TasteTheRainbow 8,726]

We will, apparently. Also just read a GRRM quote about how we are totally going to see Howland Reed in the books. That means the other "northern lord" being cast is probably him. Exciting stuff.

[Gadge 4,294]

Going back to Danys fire resistance.

 

Its a *long* time since i read the books but doesnt she get burned up twice and come out more or less unscathed (she loses her hair both time), once when she's with Drogo's people and again by one of her dragons on a mountainside in Mereen.

 

Like i say long time ago but i seem to remember her hair burns off but her skin is unharmed.

 

 

Vysiris (sp?) being killed by the molten gold could be as much drowning in it i guess or simply its early on and its an inconsistancy with the family 'trait' .   A lot of authors write stuff later that fits badly with early narrative as its like six or seven years since the first book/film etc and they simply forgot or ignored it for a better story.

 

(good example is Luke/Leia.. its abundantly clear that the 'sibling' idea was not present when ANH came out and was a 'new idea' for ESB, the problem is it makes the ANH relationship between the two look dodgy in the light of later films.   Even given 'dramatic irony' and the characters non knowledge being a possibility its clear Lucas really did not have that in mind when scripting it)

[TasteTheRainbow 8,726]

Both of those fires are magic. I don't know if her brother would have survived the pyre, but I bet he would have survived Drogon's fire. (Not his teeth)

[Robin Graves 6,054]

I think thats the point.

 

while Kit Harrington has said *jon snow* is 'dead' he's also renewed his contract for season 7...

 

So that is either a heck of a lot of flashbacks or he's coming back in some form.

 

Force ghosts? Oh wait this isn't star wars...

 

White walker jon snow! yaay!

 

Melisandre: "you know nothing jon snow"

Jon: " I know deathhhhhhhhh"

[Robin Graves 6,054]

I like how even the FFG tutorial video of the LCG gets in on the spoilers.

 

When it explains that unique characters get killed don't go to the discard pile, but the Dead pile, the card used for the example is the one of...Jon Snow.

 

Someone at FFG was having fun with this!

[Vigil 687]

Both of those fires are magic. I don't know if her brother would have survived the pyre, but I bet he would have survived Drogon's fire. (Not his teeth)

I've always interpreted Viserys's death (and the bit about fire not being able to harm a dragon - and thus not harm Daenerys) as meaning that Viserys basically got the shallow end of the Targaryen gene pool. The same shallow end that Aerys II (the Mad), Aegon IV (the Unworthy), and Maegor (the Cruel) got. 

[WarriorPoet 352]

Thought of this out of the dull grey sky Sunday morning, and went digging to find this thread and conversation:

 

 

R + L = J is about as close to true as the books get. If it's not true then a significant amount of dialogue was just there to distract us with a completely beliveable and obvious truth that every character somehow fails to see.

 

...So what do we know about Jon Snow?...

 

Well, he's clearly got a royal bloodline - hence Melisandre's immediate interest.  And he's clearly not Eddard's son - Ned was far too honorable and devoted to his wife to sire a kid with anyone other than his wife...

 

 

Robert and Lyanna were actually betrothed, but she did not care for him at all. In one of Ned's flashbacks she makes it pretty clear that she is not and won't be happy with Robert.

Robert questions Ned about Jon's mother, not Jon. Ned changes the topic because he doesn't want to tell Robert that Lyanna ran away with Rhaegar(instead of being "kidnapped" for several (9ish?) months like the official lore says) . Lyanna had very dark hair as well...

 

 

End of the day, the Baratheon line and Targaryen line both have legitimate claims to the throne, and both houses have a vital role to play if Westeros is going to survive the coming winter.  Jon + Danerys ruling together = Baratheon (& Stark) + Targaryen ruling together = profit for Westeros.  Simples!

 

 

So, not to beat a dead horse, but the thought that struck me like a thunderbolt yesterday was that Jon should be a Targaryen; Melisandre is obsessed with the power of Kings' blood, and if Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon, he'd have the blood of the dragon as well as the old Kings of the North, pretty much making him the single most-viable Azor Ahai possible: he has a blood feud with the Others and the Night that's dark and full of terrors. Now that's as close to genetic engineering as Medievally possible!

[TasteTheRainbow 8,726]

I can do you one better:

My wife is reading that World of Ice and Fire book that came out last year. It is full of all kinds of stuff, including extensive family trees. Every house is so intertwined with every other that it's a wonder they don't all just consider themselves one big family. Every great family has married into every other great family, most of them several times.

EXCEPT

There has never been a Stark/Targaryen wedding or bastard in that whole book. Not one. And the most suspicion about that is that the book doesn't mention it despite the amount of writing dedicated only to houses and marriages. If that doesn't tell you that Jon is a Targaryen nothing will.

Another side note: I'm pretty sure Tyrion is a Targaryen as well and I'm 50/50 on Cersei and Jaime also being the children of the Mad King. That World of Ice and Fire is gorgeously illustrated, but it is also just really good.

[WarriorPoet 352]

I saw that at B&N last year, and really want it!

 

I've heard the Tyrion claim before, but don't know any of the evidence. Care to illuminate me?

[TasteTheRainbow 8,726]

The Mad King was around and bedding Tywin's wife at the right times. He completely flipped out about Cersei marrying Rhaegar. Also, Tyrion was born with a tail. On average there is about 1 Targaryen per generation born who is a lot like Tyrion in physical description. Plus his eyes are two colors and its GRRM.

[WarriorPoet 352]

I was with you until the tail bit - I thought that was a rumour - ?

 

Have you read A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms? I read it shortly before Thanksgiving, and it was great!

[TasteTheRainbow 8,726]

It's on my short list. I do audiobooks at work(analyst) and I'm crawling through feast for Crows right now.

[heychadwick 11,357]

I've read the book series a few times and also read the World of Ice and Fire book.  I've seen all the tv shows.  I feel pretty comfortable with talking about this book series. 

 

It's hinted at numerous points that Rhygaer and Lyanna ran off together and were willing.  Jon Snow is most likely their child.  He would not have a claim to the thrown, though, as he is a bastard.  Daeny is legitimate.  Also, Jon Snow can't marry or own land.  He's sworn an oath to the Night's Watch that he can't go back on. 

 

The significance of Jon having Targareyan blood is that he can ride one of the three dragons.  It's not so much who he marries or if he can be king.  That's not an option. 

 

Oh, and Jon Snow is dead....but he will come back.  Just look at the other Flame Priest that brought all those people back from the dead.  Milessandre is going to bring Jon Snow back.  Yes, he's dead, but he will be back. 

 

I don't believe any of Tywin's kids are not his.  He's a Lannister and their family traits are fair skin and golden hair.  That's all the Lannister kids.  Also, the whole clue that Ned followed to find out his predecessor was murdered was due to the lineage of Lannister to Baratheon not having blonde hair.  The Mad King flipped out when it was suggested about Cersei marrying Rhaegar because he hated Tywin badly.  They were best friends and then had a huge falling out.  Nothing's worse than former friends or lovers (not that I'm suggesting they were lovers).  The Mad King HATED Tywin. 

[TasteTheRainbow 8,726]

Doesn't death release him from his oath? Read the words!

[TasteTheRainbow 8,726]

And that book talks about the mad King's love for Tywin's wife and taking liberties on the wedding night quite a bit if I recall correctly.

[heychadwick 11,357]

Hmm...you are right.   Hmm.....maybe so.  I wonder if he would take it?  He is a Stark, afterall.  

 

I do recall reading something about Tywin's wife.  I lent it to a friend and haven't seen it in ages, but am getting it back again next week.  I'll have to check again.  I can maybe see Tyrion perhaps being the Mad King's son, but definitely not the other two.

[TasteTheRainbow 8,726]

Cersei certainly acts like a Targaryen. The bad kind.

[heychadwick 11,357]

Yeah, but not every person who's a putz is a Targaryen.  They just happen to be the ones with the most power.  Besides, the madness of the Targaryens was mostly due to inbreading, though the Mad King was also tortured and such when he was captured.