Engine Techs and Demolisher - when does each proc?

[Spellbound 27]

If I'm using Demolisher and Engine techs, do I have to my maneuver AND the engine techs maneuver before firing my second shot, or can I maneuver, fire, then use engine techs?  Both say "after performing a maneuver".

 

Or, since the shot is interrupting the "flow", is it possible that I'm able to move, move and fire, but can't move, fire and move because now my second movement is not "after a maneuver" but is now "after an attack"?  Or are they simultaneous so I get to do choose?

[Intys Rule 148]

You can fire-move-move-fire or fire-move-fire-move.

 

When 2 effects can trigger at the same time, the controlling player can decide the order in which they resolve.  Page 5 of the RRG, Effect Use and Timing, bullet #8

[DWRR 898]

Possible moves >>

 

Shoot - Move - Shoot - Move

Shoot - Move - Move - Shoot

Shoot - Shoot - Move - Move

[wtfboar 47]

Possible moves >>

 

Shoot - Move - Shoot - Move

Shoot - Move - Move - Shoot

Shoot - Shoot - Move - Move

You can not shoot shoot move move because demolisher says you have to execute a maneuver in order to shoot.

Rules reference page 11 to execute a maneuver you must determine course and move your ship

[Green Knight 9,746]

All ships can shoot shoot move (move - with techs).

What you cant is move shoot move shoot.

[Intys Rule 148]

You can not shoot shoot move move because demolisher says you have to execute a maneuver in order to shoot.

Rules reference page 11 to execute a maneuver you must determine course and move your ship

 

 

Why not?  Shoot-shoot-move is what you normally do (assuming you have 2 valid targets), shoot-shoot-move-move is simply Engine Techs and not Demolisher.

[wtfboar 47]

 

You can not shoot shoot move move because demolisher says you have to execute a maneuver in order to shoot.

Rules reference page 11 to execute a maneuver you must determine course and move your ship

 

 

Why not?  Shoot-shoot-move is what you normally do (assuming you have 2 valid targets), shoot-shoot-move-move is simply Engine Techs and not Demolisher.

 

I believe Spellbound is asking about a single target in what order can he use his Engine Techs and Demolisher. If your shooting at two different targets or two different hull zones at the same target thats different. But I don't think that is what he is asking. 

and that example should look like this

shoot > shoot > move > move > shoot

[Intys Rule 148]

 

I believe Spellbound is asking about a single target in what order can he use his Engine Techs and Demolisher. If your shooting at two different targets or two different hull zones at the same target thats different. But I don't think that is what he is asking. 

 

and that example should look like this

shoot > shoot > move > move > shoot

 

 

Your example there is broken since you can only shoot twice.  My reply to Spellbound's original post is my first reply to this thread, with RRG page reference so he can cross-check.

 

My last reply to you was also in response to you mentioning Demolisher.  Essentially, you **CAN** shoot-shoot-move-move but this is not done with Demolisher but is done with Engine Techs (assuming, of course, that you've done a Navigate command dial or have spent a Navigate token).

[Gibbobobo 44]

 

Possible moves >>

 

Shoot - Move - Shoot - Move

Shoot - Move - Move - Shoot

Shoot - Shoot - Move - Move

You can not shoot shoot move move because demolisher says you have to execute a maneuver in order to shoot.

Rules reference page 11 to execute a maneuver you must determine course and move your ship

 

 

Demolisher is completely optional. 

 

Therefore you can Shoot, Shoot, move, move providing you did a Navigate command to trigger the engine techs.

[wtfboar 47]

 

 

Possible moves >>

 

Shoot - Move - Shoot - Move

Shoot - Move - Move - Shoot

Shoot - Shoot - Move - Move

You can not shoot shoot move move because demolisher says you have to execute a maneuver in order to shoot.

Rules reference page 11 to execute a maneuver you must determine course and move your ship

 

 

Demolisher is completely optional. 

 

Therefore you can Shoot, Shoot, move, move providing you did a Navigate command to trigger the engine techs.

 

Your right if you are going to decide not to use demolisher. I just think we are getting way off what he was asking. And that was in what order he can use both upgrades. Demolisher and Engine Techs. And you can use them in any order you pick

[Gibbobobo 44]

Yeah, but the way your worded was suggesting that you couldn't fire, fire, move, move at all.

 

At least that's how I read it and I guess Intys Rule did too.

[wtfboar 47]

I hear ya. But I am not trying to answer every possible outcome, thats a long post : ) Just trying to answer the direct question

[Viper Jr. 116]

Possible moves >>

 

Shoot - Move - Shoot - Move

Shoot - Move - Move - Shoot

Shoot - Shoot - Move - Move

You also have the moves which does not use both upgrade cards, like Shoot - Shoot - Move, or Shoot - Move - Shoot.

 

Just a side note, you could use this stutter stepping in combination with speed 1 and a station, giving you the ability to discard two damage tokens, since they are discarded as soon as you finish a maneuver overlapping a station, which happens twice with Engine tech. Even more crazy, you could use this with ramming, basically giving you the option to attack a ship once, then ram it two times, but removing the damage cards as you receive them, from overlapping a station.

[Smuggler 556]

 

Possible moves >>

 

Shoot - Move - Shoot - Move

Shoot - Move - Move - Shoot

Shoot - Shoot - Move - Move

You can not shoot shoot move move because demolisher says you have to execute a maneuver in order to shoot.

Rules reference page 11 to execute a maneuver you must determine course and move your ship

 

Demolisher says you can make one of your attacks after you execute a maneuver. It doesn't say you have to do it after executing a maneuver.

[Intys Rule 148]

I hear ya. But I am not trying to answer every possible outcome, thats a long post : ) Just trying to answer the direct question

 

The question was answered by the second and third post on this thread, then was muddled by post #4 when you mentioned shoot-shoot-move-move and Demolisher (which I think you've confused with Engine Tech).

 

 

Just a side note, you could use this stutter stepping in combination with speed 1 and a station, giving you the ability to discard two damage tokens, since they are discarded as soon as you finish a maneuver overlapping a station, which happens twice with Engine tech. Even more crazy, you could use this with ramming, basically giving you the option to attack a ship once, then ram it two times, but removing the damage cards as you receive them, from overlapping a station.

 

Oooo!!  I like that repair station scenario!  I'll see if I can use that....

Not too sure I'm too happy with the ramming mechanic on this game yet.  Too many happy memories of Oicunn in X-Wing.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Intys Rule

[Viper Jr. 116]

 

 

Just a side note, you could use this stutter stepping in combination with speed 1 and a station, giving you the ability to discard two damage tokens, since they are discarded as soon as you finish a maneuver overlapping a station, which happens twice with Engine tech. Even more crazy, you could use this with ramming, basically giving you the option to attack a ship once, then ram it two times, but removing the damage cards as you receive them, from overlapping a station.

 

Oooo!!  I like that repair station scenario!  I'll see if I can use that....

Not too sure I'm too happy with the ramming mechanic on this game yet.  Too many happy memories of Oicunn in X-Wing.

 

I actually managed to pull that off. Many rebel tears were shred. Motti however, was pleased.

[Intys Rule 148]

Very good!!  I'm sure the Emperor will be pleased! 

[Tetsugaku-San 56]

I may need to start a new topic on this - but if you read the words on the cards very explicitly. Engine techs and demolished allow you to move, fire, move, fire.

Show me I'm wrong?

[Green Knight 9,746]

I may need to start a new topic on this - but if you read the words on the cards very explicitly. Engine techs and demolished allow you to move, fire, move, fire.

Show me I'm wrong?

 

It's in the wording of the Demolisher card. 

 

You can shoot after moving, but only once per activation. Not once after each move.

[Tetsugaku-San 56]

But it doesn't does it?

It says:

""During your activation, you can perform 1 of your attacks after you execute a maneuver."

Which doesn't in any way rule out MFMF using engine techs. In fact the only thing it says is that you can only use 1 attack after a manauever. Given that engine techs lets you move twice, the cards allow MFMF. I don't feel it was written to allow that to happen but the lose wording does allow it.

Edited June 15, 2015 by Tetsugaku-San

[Smuggler 556]

If you MFMF then you have performed both your attacks after executing a maneuver. Demolisher only allowes you to perform 1 of your attacks after executing a amneuver.

It doesn't say "you can attack after..." it says you can "you can performe 1 of your attacks after...".

[Tetsugaku-San 56]

Going to have to point out the launguage here - the player would not be "performing both of their attacks after executing a manauvere" you would be performing one of your attacks after a manauever. Then, you'd be performing one of your attacks after a manauever. It's says "one of". The launguage is definite.

Edited June 15, 2015 by Tetsugaku-San

[Green Knight 9,746]

But it doesn't does it?

It says:

""During your activation, you can perform 1 of your attacks after you execute a maneuver."

Which doesn't in any way rule out MFMF using engine techs. In fact the only thing it says is that you can only use 1 attack after a manauever. Given that engine techs lets you move twice, the cards allow MFMF. I don't feel it was written to allow that to happen but the lose wording does allow it.

 

I'm sorry, but you are purposefully reading something into the text that isn't there. There wording is about as tight as it gets - offering no room for interpretation really.

[Tetsugaku-San 56]

If you MFMF then you have performed both your attacks after executing a maneuver. Demolisher only allowes you to perform 1 of your attacks after executing a amneuver.

It doesn't say "you can attack after..." it says you can "you can performe 1 of your attacks after...".

 

 

But it doesn't does it?

It says:

""During your activation, you can perform 1 of your attacks after you execute a maneuver."

Which doesn't in any way rule out MFMF using engine techs. In fact the only thing it says is that you can only use 1 attack after a manauever. Given that engine techs lets you move twice, the cards allow MFMF. I don't feel it was written to allow that to happen but the lose wording does allow it.

 

I'm sorry, but you are purposefully reading something into the text that isn't there. There wording is about as tight as it gets - offering no room for interpretation really.

 

 

Seriously - 1) you don't need to apologise.

2) I don't want this to happen, I consider it an exploit, but it is there.

3) The language is not clear - not at all. "During your activation, you can perform 1 of your attacks after you execute a maneuver." -  "A manoeuvre" is important as is " you can perform 1 of". The Precise English interpretation allows MFMF

[Green Knight 9,746]

Then we just disagree over whether or not the wording is ambiguous or not

 

If you think the wording is ambiguous, e-mail FFG and ask for a clarification. I've done so on occasion, and always received a (fairly) prompt reply. It's a very customer-friendly company in that regard.

 

Btw: we also had this discussion just as short while ago, and one player did ask FFG, and got this reply.

 

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/176583-interaction-between-demolisher-and-engine-techs/page-2#entry1646713