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Kapelan

Rogue Trader 2, What would you like to see?

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As a GM what would you like to see in the new edition?  

 

 

For me I would like to see 2 things. 

 

First is production. My PC Tech-Priests are allways trying to craft and mass produce something and I house rulled an entire system for them to play in. With resourses and the tech - heresy options.

 

Second is acquisition. Trade , broker agreements, one time deals...and so on I would like to see more detail on that topic. 

 

 

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Here's the stuff I want to see:

 

1. Get rid of the "ranks" system.  Bring it on par with Only War and Dark Heresy 2ed.  Using an affinity/attribute type system should prevent people from making the usual cheese-fest characters - the combat monster explorator comes to mind.

2. Address void combat.  In its current state, it is beyond clunky and needs to be looked at with an eye towards things like firing arcs and the the 3-dimensional battlefield.  I'd also like to see a deeper "crit table" - more than just disabling a particular component.

3. New area of space.  Sure, GMs can create custom "expanses" - I know I have.  But given that most people don't really want to take the time to do it, a new expanse would be great.

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More focus on colony building and system interaction. Stars of Inequity was a good generator, but its rules for implementation were lacking a little. Some sort of rules for planetary invasion would be good too, since I don't want to have a ship-combat where a single round lasts two hours. 

 

Stuff you can buy for protection, how to build starports, realy in-depth colony things that are also accessible and easy to understand. It's as simple as fixing Itchy and Scratchy!

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What they said...and more.  Lots of details, but keep it easy to adjudicate.

 

The best rules are endless and with lots of tables, but in the end it comes down to a few simple die rolls.  We GMs are pretty good knowing which tables to use.  We can pare it down.  Just give us lots of choices.

 

And give us campaign supplements, things we can build our own scenarios from.  Scenario booklets are fine for examples, but after a couple we can create our own.

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More examples of play for the trickier rules areas would make it a better rulebook - additionally re-organising the book more sensibly would be a help.

 

If you started off introducing all the basic rules at the front then move onto character generation then combat (combined personal and ship combat) then the GMs section and then the sector fluff.

 

No major new rules required but refinement of the existing ones and you have yourself a pretty solid rulebook.

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A. Better Mass Combat Resolution Rules (heck I'd be willing to do a simplified version of 40k tabletop rules in d10 format)

Some people like combat in their RPGs - myself included - on that note this rule set should incorporate two scopes of play:

 

Macro: story based narrative resolution - this would fall most inline with what was currently presented, but as people have pointed out needs improvement / integration of more nuanced things - i.e. specific units and or things that players crave

 

Micro: Down and dirty Mini / Token time! This is the side I would like to see as a simplified 40K tabletop experience - prolly more along the lines of skirmish play like Mordenheim - specific objectives that you and your party tackle in person or otherwise send in a specialist squad to do - but the players resolve.

 

B. As above - apply to Ship Combat (same gist; Macro & Micro aspects of play)

 

Micro: in this case would be dumbed down Battlefleet Gothic - as it stands now (I can be totally wrong on this statement) - the game doesnt even have concepts like "flak" in it - to strategist your actions against or for...

 

C. An online character generator - yeah I went there! If you want Players to have the whole Grim Dark experience and expect them to die (via the use of Fate Point burns - an expected facet of play) then they need to make character generation as quick and smooth as possible.

 

If I have to take more than 10 minutes to create a character - then it becomes fatiguing and on top of that a more harder blow to the PC who lost their character the + for the GM who rang them thru the ringer in order not to deliver a "soft" game - visceral equates to tough bloodly battles, sorry

 

Heck FF - you could go as so far and make the online generator subscription based - I'd pay $5 month for that - the corporate lords who answer to the boardroom and investors will Luv that! LMFAO

 

D. More Gear: Go pick up a shadowrun book or cyberpunk book - then figured out what conceivably could be in the Imperium of man, of that granted Space Marines are the core parent concept to all of this - as such the gear in the book feel like the hand-me-downs from the Astares scope of play; Rogue Traders and their Peers / Scions arent' Space Marines - and as such should incorporate of even utilize gear not seen or available to people who live and come from "pack / legion / group / team" as opposed to the individual who can afford to find and buy said things...

 

Espionage / Spy Devices come to Mind (example; a Navigator in my game wanted to buy "audio bugs" and put them inside of gift - then said that gift to someone important - which I allowed, but by the vanilla found in the books - listening bugs dont exist LOL), even lowly gear like the wax key copier (prerss key in wax - then mold key out after) - comes from D&D out of all places, if your gonna have "feral" worlds and the like - they sould consider the lower end of the spectrum too - as this has giving rise to many player ideas and means over the years, from gear alone!

 

Specialist or Unique Weapons (doesn't need to be xenos tech)

 

E. Whatever rules they use - please unify them - some of use like to cross over from time (BC, DH, OW)  to time for whatever reason we deem fit.

 

Thats just off the top of my head...

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I'd like to add to Don's request for more gear.  I don't want to see Traveller or GURPS books and books of gear, and I don't think 40K needs it.  Instead, give us the STC Omnitool or Lasgun and give us some easy methods of variation, say some pages with manufacturers listed on it and standardized variations those manufacturers strive for.  Gunmetal City produces the standard Mk II A1b lasgun, but their speciality is in increasing RoF for Imperial STC weaponry so they also have loads of the Mk IIA1b2 Assault Lasgun with a RoF S/-/6.  This type of format allows us GMs to create endless number of variations for our own campaigns without adding books of equipment we might never use.

 

Oh, and you need to clean up the silliness of some gear.  [Captain] "Let's get this Starhawk back to the ship so we can repair it."  [Explorator] "Nah.  That would take more time and I'd get no more advantage with all my shop tools and equipment than I currently have with the Omnitool extension on my Omnissiah's Axe."  Silly.

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Rules for Colonization and conquest.

Rules for raising armies and building ships

Rebalanced void combat

Give each Trade skill a well-defined use

I like the class system and think it should stay.

 

What I listed isn't even worthy as a whole new book. That's probably why they haven't made one.

Edited by Utherix

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On that thought Errant

 

Clovis Munitorum-Pattern: specializes in easy supply (decrease quality and increase availability)

Doru-Pattern: Has no specialty, they are the defacto basics for any PeeDeeEff, expect comments from your peers

Fykos-Pattern: Spcialises in bespoke hunting tools (Increased range and stopping power)

Khayer-Addin-Pattern: Masters of the art (increased protection/stopping power, reduced weight and always customised, 3 steps harder to purchase) expect comments from your peers

Orthlack-Pattern: Specialises in sustained heavy ordnance (Increased capacity)

Takara-Pattern: Specialises in Las weapons of all kinda (Increased reliability and always upgraded in some fashion)

Westingkrup-Pattern: Simple high quality stopping power (Increased damage, decreased availability)

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Something that FFG floated during the DH2 beta-testing, and were too quick to abandon: Action Points. Replace the current clunky language of "Characters get 2 Half Actions, which can be combined into one Full Action (with certain limits), plus one Reaction per turn" with "Characters get 3 Action Points, to spend as they choose."

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IIRC, they dropped the Action Points due to player protest.  Consider Step Aside, Swift Attack, Lightning Attack, Wall of Steel, and Counter-Attack...8 Action Points?  Seems a bit unwieldy.  I'd like to see a discussion though.

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IIRC, they dropped the Action Points due to player protest.

 

All of the protests about Action Points that I remember reading revolved around the first Beta's unpopular new Rate of Fire rules. As far as Talents go, they would just be re-worded to grant bonus APs that can only be spent on very specific actions. I think they are definitely worth a second look.

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Something that FFG floated during the DH2 beta-testing, and were too quick to abandon: Action Points. Replace the current clunky language of "Characters get 2 Half Actions, which can be combined into one Full Action (with certain limits), plus one Reaction per turn" with "Characters get 3 Action Points, to spend as they choose."

The two half action one reaction system is not complicated at all, and is balanced well. Let's be honest, who wants to keep track of action points and the AP cost of every ability? Not me. The range of variation it would actually add to the game would be extremely minimal in practice.

Edited by Utherix

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I agree with Utherix; as a GM I dont want to have to (in the back of my mind worry) keep track of both player APs and NPC APs - the less paperwork the better...

 

Granted the "idea" of APs in concept alone I do like - but thats prolly cause I actually like numbers and math LOL

 

Morbid

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I would like to see:

 

1. A LOT MORE play testing of the corebook and ALL supplements, so that the book actually has a solid ruleset that requires less errata and is better explained.

 

2. I would like to see the a new sector. The Koronus expanse is well enough explained and has lots of mysteries and written adventures for it - time for something else!

 

3. More consistent ship numbers for acceleration, crew, and mass (and implied density) of the ships.

Edited by HeavensThunderHammer

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The one thing that stands out is - how when you look up something, you need to go to 2 or 3 references in different sections of the core book, I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way. Though the presentation of the materials isn't an easy task (I've made my own RPG systems) - its something that with planning and freedom of time - that in the corporate environment may not allow the outlay of time to do so till perfected... BTW is FF a publicly owned company or a owned by a larger entity - on that note? (i.e. the share holders don't find it profitable - the perfection of the core book presentation / game mechanics - just get it out soo we can cash in - is the corporate model)

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Better talent availability. With Aptitudes and costs, I don't have to wait till forever, where NPCs didn't. I like Void Tactician, for instance. Various NPCs have it, but you can't get it till Rank 8 in three classes, 6 in ONE, and several NEVER get it. Several Rogue Traders and Officers aren't "rank 8", but they get it, and while I'm sure it helps their NPC ships a lot, it makes me grumpy that I can't get it till so much later, unless I can beg it up with an ELite Advance. No "late game" talents, in the same way, would be cool.

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Things I would like to see, and things I don't think we need:

  • A theoretical Rogue Trader 2nd Edition - or alternatively, a big Dark Heresy 2nd edition suppliement focused on rogue traders  - is going to be set in the same mechanical 'engine' as the later games - Black Crusade, Only War, Dark Heresy 2nd Edition. Therefore you can pull things through from those.
  • Don't give us a million billion stats for a bolter or a stub gun. That bugged the hell out of me in DH1 - having a few options and the modifications and/or the 'variant pattern' generator in Only War gives you a near-infinite variation without having to have a line-item for them all.
  • Politicing and influence is in DH2. The big things which aren't that belong in Rogue Trader are:
  1. Void Combat & Ship Operations - I'm at a bit of a counter to Traejun. Void combat is indeed clunky but tracking 3d manouvres and firing arcs do not strike me as a solution. I'd rather the rules be less convoluted, if anything, and more narrative (I like the Star Wars dogfighting/ship combat rules); a good space battle shouldn't be resolved by half a dozen spreads of macrobattery fire between ships essentially doing nothing. 'Deck Plans' for a ship the size of a small midlands industrial city are a stupid request but a bit more detail on the layout of standard patterns of ship would be nice, and making a boarding action more than just an opposed command test.  Equally, whilst I approve of warp travel being 'interesting', either for god's sake make it less of a faff than it is at the moment or go the whole hog and make a warp jump to another system a large chunk of a session's gameplay (which, in and of itself, I don't object to). A dozen die rolls for no-one except the ship's navigator that result in nothing especially significant is just annoying.
  2. Planetary-scale warfare - There are several versions of this, now - the black crusade book of khorne one, the black crusade actual 'crusade' one, and the battlefleet koronus one. Despite this, one of my favourite was the 'shorthand' version in frozen reaches. Short of the two or three 'turning points' where characters are actually involved, massed planetary warfare rogue trader-fashion should to me be an exercise in positioning assets to get as much advantage as possible and watching in a disconcerted fashion as vast amounts of resources get burned up in the meat grinder - and hoping once it's done that you'll be able to turn a profit on your losses.
  3. Infrastructure building - said infrastructure could be a colony, or an army, or a voidship, or something less tangible but no less vital like a trade route. Call them all an 'asset' and - management wise, at least, you can bundle them into one rule set; ABC to create them, XYZ to maintain them or use them 'off camera', 123 to milk them for influence/profit, 456 to attack/destroy/subtly undermine someone elses.
  • Reinforcement characters from DH2 were nice. One big issue with Rogue Trader is and always will be 'star trek syndrome' - having a stock of minions/reinforcement characters that represent your ability to be in multiple places helps a lot with that narratively. After all, the sort of characters you were in RT each essentially represents a whole 'department' on a kilometre long starship....
  • Sticking with the elite advance approach in DH2 is a nice touch - essentially, that allows you to create your characters as you see fit, but then one (or more) can stack 'Rogue Trader' on top in the same way DH2 can stack 'Inquisitor'. Rogue Traders are no more cut from a single mould than are inquisitors, and this leaves a lot more flexibility. It also (assuming the characters are competent in each field without it) makes it a lot easier to have the PCs be a crew of a ship from a dynasty but not th warrant-bearer, if the GM wants to play it that way, which can sometimes be useful  -it gives the GM a hook to direct the players and gives the players an 'off-camera' support base which someone else is maintaining for them. Plus it avoids the tension you can sometimes get where the player who's a rogue trader starts acting like he's "in charge" and the game suffers for it.
  • Roles like the Astropath and Navigator are nice, but set it up so that the game is perfectly functional if no-one wants to be them because they tend towards 'only wheeled out for job x'. A void-master gunner is similar and the arch-militant is in many ways worse - yes, he or she is bad-ass in a fight, but in Rogue Trader a face-to-face pistol fight is often a shocking rarity, and as a commander of troops he will currently always be worse than his boss. Hence, as above, having Rogue Trader be (a) an elite advance, and (b) focused on Influence, not command skills. The minor elite advances like 'arch-militant' and the other ship titles found in battlefleet koronus work well for providing a ship with a big cast of npc characters (or alternate PC characters, which works too).

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Things I would like to see, and things I don't think we need:

  • yes

 

Those are really good really good ideas Magnus, I'm on board for RT 2e now.

Edited by Utherix

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