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AbsoluteHero

AOE Damage and Doors

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Suppose a unit is two spaces away from a locked door that has health and needs to be destroyed by the rebels (could only make a melee attack with reach).  If that unit is targeted with blast, does the door take damage?  If a probe droid uses self destruct in this space, does the door also take damage?

 

The current FAQ (v 1.0.1) has confusing wording...

 

“When attacking a door, using an ability that affects a door, or counting spaces to a door, the door is considered to be occupying each empty space with which it shares an edge.”

 

This makes me think that blast would apply.  Based on this I would also think that self destruct applies, until reading:

 

“The spaces that share an edge with a door are the only spaces that are considered adjacent to that door. When declaring a P (melee) attack targeting a door, the attacker must be in one of those spaces. If the attacker has Reach, he must be in or adjacent to one of those spaces.”

 

Which causes confusion - is this second paragraph only for melee attacks, or does it also apply to self destruct, which stipulates that the object should be adjacent?  Is the door adjacent?  In the first paragraph it says the door is considering to be occupying the space, so yes.  In the second it says only those spaces, so no?

Edited by AbsoluteHero

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1) The door would not take damage for Blast in the scenario you described. Under "Attacking Objects" on pg 6 of the RRG, it states:

  • If a figure is in the same space as the token, the figure and token are considered adjacent for the purposes of Blast and Cleave. 

So your target has to be in the same space as the door for the door to become adjacent to your target. 

 

2) Probe Droid's Self Destruct, on the other hand, would inflict damage to the door, since you are using an ability that affects the door.

 

So basically your thought process was correct, but there was an additional rule for Blast and Cleave's adjacent definition.

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1) The door would not take damage for Blast in the scenario you described. Under "Attacking Objects" on pg 6 of the RRG, it states:

  • If a figure is in the same space as the token, the figure and token are considered adjacent for the purposes of Blast and Cleave. 

So your target has to be in the same space as the door for the door to become adjacent to your target. 

I don't believe that this implies that the figure has to be in the same space as the door for Blast to trigger. This just adds to the rules for adjacent so that a figure standing on top of a terminal doesn't block the terminal from receiving blast damage even though they are not adjacent in the typical sense.

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Absolute Hero I believe you are right that a figure two spaces from the door itself can receive damage that is Blasted on to the door.

I believe also that sense Self-Destruct is not a melee attack you can blow up when you are two spaces from the door like this:

P[]D

With P representing the droid and D the door.

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Absolute Hero I believe you are right that a figure two spaces from the door itself can receive damage that is Blasted on to the door.

I believe also that sense Self-Destruct is not a melee attack you can blow up when you are two spaces from the door like this:

P[]D

With P representing the droid and D the door.

 

So MikeNYHC, are you choosing to just totally disregard this sentence in the FAQ?

 

"The spaces that share an edge with a door are the only spaces that are considered adjacent to that door."

 

Since Blast affects adjacent objects, and spaces that share an edge with a door are the only spaces that are considered adjacent to that door, the target must be on a space that shares an edge with a door for the door to be considered adjacent for the purposes of Blast. 

 

That and we have a rule printed:

 

"If a figure is in the same space as the token, the figure and token are considered adjacent for the purposes of Blast and Cleave."

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DarkJodo after reading closely I believe that you are correct on the first point and that a figure must be directly against a door for Blast to affect it.

 

There are some weird effects with doors and Reach, Blast, etc.

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Q: Suppose a unit is two spaces away from a locked door that has health and needs to be destroyed by the rebels (could only make a melee attack with reach).  If that unit is targeted with blast, does the door take damage?

 

A: No, because the door is not adjacent to the target space.

-

Q: 
If a probe droid uses self destruct in this space, does the door also take damage?

 

A: No, because the door is not adjacent to the Probe Droid.

 

Probe Droid's Self-Destruct says, "At the end of a round, you may roll 1 red die. Each adjacent figure and object suffers damage equal to the damage results. Then, you are defeated."

 

The door is not an object that is adjacent to the Probe Droid. The Probe Droid is not using an ability that is targeting the space sharing an edge to the door. It is not drawing line of sight to the space sharing an edge to the door. It doesn't matter if the door is occupying those spaces. By strict reading, the door is not adjacent to the Probe Droid and therefore does not take damage from Self-Destruct.
 

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Q: 

If a probe droid uses self destruct in this space, does the door also take damage?

 

A: No, because the door is not adjacent to the Probe Droid.

 

Probe Droid's Self-Destruct says, "At the end of a round, you may roll 1 red die. Each adjacent figure and object suffers damage equal to the damage results. Then, you are defeated."

 

The door is not an object that is adjacent to the Probe Droid. The Probe Droid is not using an ability that is targeting the space sharing an edge to the door. It is not drawing line of sight to the space sharing an edge to the door. It doesn't matter if the door is occupying those spaces. By strict reading, the door is not adjacent to the Probe Droid and therefore does not take damage from Self-Destruct.

 

JLeisten - You are incorrect. Reread this rule:

 

"When attacking a door, using an ability that affects a door, or counting spaces to a door, the door is considered to be occupying each empty space with which it shares and edge"

 And since the space that the door is occupying is empty, and "Self Destruct" is an ability that affects doors, "Self Destruct" would indeed affect the empty adjacent space that the door is considered occupying. The door is an object adjacent to the probe droid.

Edited by DarkJodo

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Does this then mean that figures can interact with doors from that 'adjacent-to-the-door' space then?  Effectively 2 spaces from the door?  That kinda changes a lot for me - in campaign, I would stack troopers in front of a door to prevent rebels from being able to open it because they can't be adjacent to it without killing my troopers...

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Does this then mean that figures can interact with doors from that 'adjacent-to-the-door' space then?  Effectively 2 spaces from the door?  That kinda changes a lot for me - in campaign, I would stack troopers in front of a door to prevent rebels from being able to open it because they can't be adjacent to it without killing my troopers...

 

This would not affect "interacting" with the door. This rule only affects when attacking, counting spaces to, or using an ability that targets the door. And even then, it only applies when the space is empty. If another figure is on this space, it loses its effect.

Edited by DarkJodo

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I still disagree.

Probe Droid's Self Destruct specifically says to deal damage to adjacent figures and objects. Is the door adjacent to the Probe Droid? No. So the door doesn't take damage.

The spaces that share an edge with a door are the only spaces that are considered adjacent to that door.

Just because the door "occupies" those spaces doesn't mean you are adjacent to the door if you are adjacent to those occupied spaces. Self-Destruct specifically says to damage adjacent figures and objects. If they aren't adjacent, then they take no damage.

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Just because the door "occupies" those spaces doesn't mean you are adjacent to the door if you are adjacent to those occupied spaces. Self-Destruct specifically says to damage adjacent figures and objects. If they aren't adjacent, then they take no damage.

 

Yes - if a door occupies a space, and you are adjacent to that space, you are indeed adjacent to the door - as long as you are attacking, counting or using an ability targeting the door.

 

Just like if a figure occupies a space next to your space. You are adjacent. It works the same exact way.

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In the Rules References it specifically says that the spaces that share an edge with the door are the only spaces considered adjacent. I do believe this takes precedent in an ability like Self-Destruct where you must be adjacent to do damage. It seems that you must be in the space directly against the door to damage it with that ability.

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Hi Chris,
 
The Probe Droid’s Self Destruct would not hit the door in this instance. The overriding rule is the rule under “Doors” which states “The spaces that share an edge with a door are the only spaces that are considered to be adjacent to that door.” Since the damage from the Probe Droid’s ability requires adjacency, it would not hit the door in your diagram.
 
Thanks!

 

Paul Winchester
Creative Content Developer
Fantasy Flight Games

 

On Jun 15, 2015, at 11:20 AM, 
 wrote:

Message from:

Chris




Rules Question:

We have a stall in a game of Imperial assault. We are playing A New Threat and are curious as to the ruling of the self destruct ability for the door. Hopefully the diagram below is of help (This is on the bottom section of the map near the door)
 
[N][N][D][M]D
[O][O][P][O]D
 
N=Nexu
D=Diala
M=Mak
O=Open Spaces
P=Probe Droid
D= the line where the door is placed.
 
The argument arises due to the fact that the Probe droid is not considered adjacent to the door, however the ability would effect the space, and as it is an empty space the door is considered occupying that space for targeting purposes (which could be argued it can now be hit with the ability). Does the self Destruct hit the door in this particular case?

 

The wording of this I can assume would also apply to blast abilities as they require adjacent targets (if the target in this case was the probe droid above)

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If the rule

 

"The spaces that share an edge with a door are the only spaces that are considered to be adjacent to that door."

 

"overrides", I don't see why the “When attacking a door, using an ability that affects a door, or counting spaces to a door, the door is considered to be occupying each empty space with which it shares an edge.” even exits at all!

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I don't see why the “When attacking a door, using an ability that affects a door, or counting spaces to a door, the door is considered to be occupying each empty space with which it shares an edge.” even exits at all!

 

Consistency. Adjacency to a door is only given if you are really adjacent to the door. But since some mechanics do target spaces or objects in spaces, the door also needs to occupy spaces. For mechanics that target objects in spaces (like ranged attacks for instance) the door occupies the 4 spaces it shares the edges with. For mechanics that use adjacency (like melee attacks as well as Blast and Self Destruct) the origin of the effect must be in on of the spaces adjacent to the door.

 

Also see the boardgame geeks thread here:

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1392192/probe-droids-self-destruct-and-doors

Edited by jacenat

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I find all those door rules to be pretty tedious; it's hard to remember how to apply them, and which ones override which others in which situations, without looking them up all the time, which interrupts the fun.

 

So my preferred house-rule is simply: when tracing/counting/considering range/LOS/adjacency/whatever from any starting space/figure to a door, that door is considered to occupy the two spaces which are on the far side of the door from the starting space/figure; also, a door does not block LOS/adjacency to itself.

 

This yields the same behavior for true adjacency (have to be standing next to the door to be adjacent to the spaces on the far side of the door, and therefore adjacent to the door) but more sensible behavior for ranged attacks and "counting spaces" (such as the mission that lets doors blow up to cause damage within X spaces). For example, RAW lets ranged attacks trace LOS to two points which are both a meter away from the actual door surface, which is silly; my preferred house-rule effectively requires LOS to be traced to two points on the actual door surface itself.

Edited by taleden

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