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Deadshane

Is Armada gonna make it?

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Each opinion is their own.

Yes, it is. Which is why I said

"not really the way I see it " and

"The primary difference to me "

And then you got kinda aggressive and very condescending while agreeing with me (and yes, here I am getting annoyingly passive aggressive, sorry).

And that BFG layout would be perfectly fine for an epic x-wing game, and there is a thread on the x-wing board right now discussing using the DZC buildings for an x-wing low altitude dogfight. That's the kind of flexibility in set up and list construction that (again, to me) defines a wargame.

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I really don't understand these Either/Or gamers. It's not like buying into Armada somehow deactivates your X-Wing collection or somehow lessens your enjoyment of it.

 

News flash, people, you can play and maintain two different gaming systems at once. 

 

Your X-Wings don't stop working because you have a shiny new Imperial fleet in Armada.

 

You've paid money for it, no one is going to take your miniatures away from you.

 

Playing with your existing miniatures costs you very little.

 

No, but Armada's mighty expensive. I doubt I'll get it until I'm done buying X-Wing. I play X-Wing at 150, with new lists every game and with fairly casual people so the fat turret problem doesn't affect me. X-Wing has some problems right now which players can easily avoid by not exploting them, but if you're in an area where people do that X-Wing could get dull very quickly.

 

I'm considering getting the Core if I can find it cheaply. Does the Core play well?

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But to people not used to wargame prices, it  could seem quite expensive.

 

@Blue Five: You can get the core set for about $100 AUD with free shipping from the Book Depository. Not sure how that stacks up with other online places, but it's the cheapest I've seen it.

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...Armada is the CHEAPEST miniatures wargame I've ever bought into...

I can attest to this! Several thousand USD on 40k,a thousand on WHFB, hundreds of USD ON Firestorm Armada, and let's not count in the painting and building

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The difference lies in play and scale usually. Miniature War games usually have more going on than "kill all the things!". Things like objectives, missions, etc make war games. Board games are usually straight forward with vary little variance aside from some strategy and in X-Wing's case list building (its always kill kill kill so no real variance there).

Yeah, not really the way I see it at all. The primary difference to me is actually the board. Wargames have a much less formalized playing surface. You might have a decorated mat to play on, but the actual game relevant features of the playing surface (terrain and obstacles) can change from game to game while a board game has a provided playing surface with explicitly defined features. Another difference, though not as hard and fast, is that wargames tend to have an element of list building. In a board game you generally just pick a pawn to play. Your choice might be purely aesthetic or it might carry different game consequences, but in a board game it is generally a package deal, you make a single choice and get whatever benefits and drawbacks are associated with that choice. In a wargame you almost always have an option to customize your game resources to suit how YOU want to play, creating an element of game play before the game actually starts (a significant factor in the appeal of wargames, and also, I feel, a major source of the false dichotomy between competitive and narrative players).

 

 

I think you are mixing two thinks though:

 

According to Wikipedia, "A wargame (also war game) is a strategy game that deals with military operations of various types, real or fictional."

 

So Armada is a wargame. So is X-wing. So is Squad Leader. So is Axis&Allies

 

Next to that, you have the form and the rules (including complexity)

* Armada is a miniatures wargame

* Squad Leader is a board wargame, As is Twilight Imperium(per your avatar!)

* Up Front is a card wargame.

 

There are loads of boardgames (and card games for that matter) that are NOT wargames. But the form is not indicative of the fact if the game is a wargame or not. Though most (if not all) of the miniature games are wargames.

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...Armada is the CHEAPEST miniatures wargame I've ever bought into...

 

Both IA and X-Wing are cheaper unless you go completely overboard with X-Wing.

 

But that's also assuming that Green Knight bought in to both X-wing (in moderation) as well as Imperial Assault.  As it is, it's just a personal statement. 

 

I've spent slightly more on X-wing, even after the Wave 2 pre-orders, making Armada the cheapest wargame that I've ever bought into as well.  That said, everything is purely anecdotal and strictly relative.  After all, I've got half a dozen 5,000+ point Warhammer Fantasy armies, a Forgeworld style 40K army, a few 40K armies, a big fleet for Battlefleet Gothic, A french army  from the 7 years war, -Ramble, grumble, ramble-

 

Even priced as exceptionally high where I live, Armada has been selling incredibly well.  However, I haven't seen the number of active players compared to X-wing or a number of other tabletop games.  That said, I hear a lot of people talking about Armada.  So I'm in a weird position of hearing people's excitement, but not seeing it played.  I think the 300 point fleet number, combined with relatively little choice in recognizable ships, and having this conversation just  before the tentative release of the iconic big guns of the series, is having an effect.  I'll reserve judgment on the state of the game until I've seen how things are in the wake of Wave 2 (I'm basically sitting on a core box, some fighters, and 1 extra expansion because I like the ship, but I've got 2 full fleets pre-ordered from Wave 2.  Likewise, I know at least 3 other people who are in the same position). 

 

I've had this discussion a few times with different people outside the Star War thrall, and most seem to think that Star Destroyers aren't quite as iconic as X-wings, which may indicate a slightly smaller potential customer base.  But I still expect Armada to do well, and I know it's ticked off a number of boxes that are important in my 'great game' checklist.  Whether Armada is the runaway success of its snubfighter predecessor, or just a solid, well supported game remains to be seen.  Time will tell.

 

Post Script: In other news, it seems traditional board games are waaaay more expensive than I remember.

Edited by Vykes

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I just bought in to armada and will be expanding soon. However I will say this, while it isn't super expensive for a wargame, it is still expensive at least in the short run. The buy in for X wing for min set up felt much better for people around here and with as easy to learn and play as it is, it just sold itself. Armada is a bit more involved, not a ton, but a bit. Then the initial buy in scares off new players, similar to other war games. 

 

What makes it worse is, other board games to fill the gaming need end up, just as expensive with just a single buy in and possible expansions once in a blue moon. Makes it an easier sell to the big fleet lovers, however for those more casual, or not super into star wars gamers, the price ends up as a put off. 

 

Will it survive ? Time will tell, but X wing is doing pretty well so that gives me hope.

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Here, in Spain, since they released the wave 1 in sales, the crew has been increased. In my opinion, maybe they don't get all the massive amount of players like X-Wing, but the enough ones for being a solid game. I only need that FFG continues doing more waves and to have the enough amount of players for play with them.

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...Armada is the CHEAPEST miniatures wargame I've ever bought into...

 

This. All Wargamers I know told me the same. Instead of comparing X-Wing, which as a miniature game, is not a Wargame, they compare with WH 40K or WH Fantasy, games that probably you need to spend 500-1000$ in order to get the enough miniatures for play torunaments.

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Another thing. At first, X-Wing seems to be cheaper than armada (40$ vs 100$ core), but if you think, in Armada you will need less amount of the same ship. Probably you only need two ships of the same model (people saying about 3 Nebulon, but seriously, if they continues doing Waves, probably this kind of list will not be so popular and efective), while in X-Wing, I know people who spent 120$ in order to get 6 TIE Fighters.

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while in X-Wing, I know people who spent 120$ in order to get 6 TIE Fighters.

Well, for starters, 6 tie fighters only costs $90, so they are getting ripped off unless other stuff is included in that cost (like some x-wings and a bunch of templates.

Second, there are people here saying they are running corvette spam, so... Same dif.

There are only a couple ships in x-wing that make sense to buy in bulk, ties, Z's, maybe scyks. Just like in armada there will be a few things you'll want several of. Most products in x-wing you'll be just fine with no more than 2. Two of an entire x-wing wave varies from $120-$180, wave 1 of armada is $190 for one of everything, and there is stuff in armada that you will want more than one of.

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While they are two different games, I prefer Armada a million fold over Xwing. Everything about this game is way better IMO.

I like Armada, but realistically, it is a bit too long.  It will never have the same competitive atmosphere but more of a planned out affair something the shut up and sit down review touched on.

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While they are two different games, I prefer Armada a million fold over Xwing. Everything about this game is way better IMO.

I like Armada, but realistically, it is a bit too long.  It will never have the same competitive atmosphere but more of a planned out affair something the shut up and sit down review touched on.
Can I ask what other war games you play? (other than X-Wing)

Forgottenlore, how much was 6 TIEs by Wave 1? What about before? At MSRP of course (need a commonality)

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While they are two different games, I prefer Armada a million fold over Xwing. Everything about this game is way better IMO.

I like Armada, but realistically, it is a bit too long.  It will never have the same competitive atmosphere but more of a planned out affair something the shut up and sit down review touched on.
Can I ask what other war games you play? (other than X-Wing)

Forgottenlore, how much was 6 TIEs by Wave 1? What about before? At MSRP of course (need a commonality)

 

Competitively just Xwing.  I have been meaning to play more Armada (which I have everything except the frigate), but when I plan for my once weekly game night on Wednesday,  I weigh getting in 3 games of Xwing or 1 Armada game in I choose Xwing. The idea of playing team Armada (Where you control 1 or 2 ships)  seems really fun though. 

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To answer the OP, yes Armada will make it, mostly because Fantasy Flight knows how to run a business.  So dont worry about Armada, it is no Xwing but, correct me if I am wrong, but comparing to Xwing is a tad unfair as nothing has ever grown so fast (miniatures wise).   Truly Xwing is only a few years old and is practically mainstream!

 

 

They know how to appeal to the right crowds, price things right, and quite simply make fun and accessible games so Armada will be fine.  

Edited by Amraam01

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While they are two different games, I prefer Armada a million fold over Xwing. Everything about this game is way better IMO.

I like Armada, but realistically, it is a bit too long.  It will never have the same competitive atmosphere but more of a planned out affair something the shut up and sit down review touched on.
Can I ask what other war games you play? (other than X-Wing)

Forgottenlore, how much was 6 TIEs by Wave 1? What about before? At MSRP of course (need a commonality)

Competitively just Xwing.  I have been meaning to play more Armada (which I have everything except the frigate), but when I plan for my once weekly game night on Wednesday,  I weigh getting in 3 games of Xwing or 1 Armada game in I choose Xwing. The idea of playing team Armada (Where you control 1 or 2 ships)  seems really fun though.

I mean wargame in general.

I am not sure what you are playing in Armada but a 300 pt game should not take all day.

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while in X-Wing, I know people who spent 120$ in order to get 6 TIE Fighters.

Well, for starters, 6 tie fighters only costs $90, so they are getting ripped off unless other stuff is included in that cost (like some x-wings and a bunch of templates.

Second, there are people here saying they are running corvette spam, so... Same dif.

There are only a couple ships in x-wing that make sense to buy in bulk, ties, Z's, maybe scyks. Just like in armada there will be a few things you'll want several of. Most products in x-wing you'll be just fine with no more than 2. Two of an entire x-wing wave varies from $120-$180, wave 1 of armada is $190 for one of everything, and there is stuff in armada that you will want more than one of.

 

 

I think that in Wave 2 or 3, there will be no spam of corvettes.

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Forgottenlore, how much was 6 TIEs by Wave 1? What about before? At MSRP of course (need a commonality)

A tie fighter expansion is $15 and always has been. So 6 of them would be $90.

Now, that generally isn't the best way to get 6 tie fighters, since virtually everyone wants at least 2 core sets, but then they are getting a bunch of other stuff as well. When just wave 1 of x-wing was out, a reasonable buy in to fully play the game would have been 2 core sets and 1 of each of the 4 expansions. That comes to $140 and would get you a perfectly playable force for both factions. A standard x-wing wave is 4 ships. Wave 7(which is the most expensive wave to date and which is probably out in a month) has a $15 ship, two $20 ships and an extra large ship for $40. Two of each ship is a reasonable purchase for an avid player who wants all the options, there aren't really any swarmy ships in this wave, so that comes to $190 for everything a non compulsive player might want out of the wave.

Wave 1 of armada comes to $190 for one of everything, but there are things in it that people ARE going to want more than 1 of. The 2 fighter packs come to mind. Most people seem to want 2 gladiators and quite a few seem to want 2 assault frigates. Wave 2 of armada comes to only $160 for one of everything, but again, most people are going to want more than 1 raider and/or mc30.

Comparing the cost if you only want 1 faction is a lot harder since x-wing now has 3 factions.

Anyway, hope that wasn't too much information. I kinda wanted to try and cover all the bases.

TLDR. Armada is more expensive than x-wing, but not by a huge amount. Close enough that the actual difference can probably be discounted. Perception, now that is something else.

Edited by Forgottenlore

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Forgottenlore, how much was 6 TIEs by Wave 1? What about before? At MSRP of course (need a commonality)

A tie fighter expansion is $15 and always has been. So 6 of them would be $90.

Now, that generally isn't the best way to get 6 tie fighters, since virtually everyone wants at least 2 core sets, but then they are getting a bunch of other stuff as well. When just wave 1 of x-wing was out, a reasonable buy in to fully play the game would have been 2 core sets and 1 of each of the 4 expansions. That comes to $140 and would get you a perfectly playable force for both factions. A standard x-wing wave is 4 ships. Wave 7(which is the most expensive wave to date and which is probably out in a month) has a $15 ship, two $20 ships and an extra large ship for $40. Two of each ship is a reasonable purchase for an avid player who wants all the options, there aren't really any swarmy ships in this wave, so that comes to $190 for everything a non compulsive player might want out of the wave.

Wave 1 of armada comes to $190 for one of everything, but there are things in it that people ARE going to want more than 1 of. The 2 fighter packs come to mind. Most people seem to want 2 gladiators and quite a few seem to want 2 assault frigates. Wave 2 of armada comes to only $160 for one of everything, but again, most people are going to want more than 1 raider and/or mc30.

Comparing the cost if you only want 1 faction is a lot harder since x-wing now has 3 factions.

Anyway, hope that wasn't too much information. I kinda wanted to try and cover all the bases.

TLDR. Armada is more expensive than x-wing, but not by a huge amount. Close enough that the actual difference can probably be discounted. Perception, now that is something else.

I think while prices straight across are different, they are evened out by the difference in each game.

X-Wing was all about the snubs going at it. Armada is about cap ships. For what you get per expansion I think things are balanced right

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...Armada is the CHEAPEST miniatures wargame I've ever bought into...

 

This. All Wargamers I know told me the same. Instead of comparing X-Wing, which as a miniature game, is not a Wargame, they compare with WH 40K or WH Fantasy, games that probably you need to spend 500-1000$ in order to get the enough miniatures for play torunaments.

 

 

....unless you want more than one army...then it becomes really silly :) Or if you still insist on playing Battlefleet Gothic and need some more ships in this day and age.

 

At any rate, I actually felt X-wing was kind of expensive. A lot of good dollars for just a sill snubfighter. Maybe Armada is more expensive, but it feels more satisfying somehow.

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