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Deadshane

Is Armada gonna make it?

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Trek had a huge issue when everyone showing up at the local and tourney level showed up with all Borg lists.  They  broke their own game and it hurt the player base.  I know almost everyone sold out of it because of this.

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When on the topic of 40k vs. Armada

 

What Armada does have is:

 

- it's reasonably priced

- it sets up quickly

- it plays quickly

- the rules are pretty clear - and they don't change every other year

 

What Armada doesn't have is: 

 

- multiple interesting factions: rebs and imps are cool, and you can always pretend its a civil war/fighting fringe pirates or some such when fighting mirror matches, but its still only 2 factions

 

Blood for the Blood God, Skulls for the Skull Throne!

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If the game was bad the IP wouldn't matter. Look at Attack Wing, they just had a horrible turnout at thier own version of Worlds. Star Trek is popular but the game is so bad it is a joke.

True, though I don't think the Star Trek and Star Wars IPs are of the same magnitude.

I met a young black lady librarian with a Darth Vader tattoo yesterday. While awesome, not all that surprising here in Portland, but I don't see Captain Picard swinging it.

Of course, but we aren't talking about just lesser then X-wing level of attendance. I'm talking smaller sized Store Championship level attendance (<20) for thier "Worlds Championship". That is how bad it gets when your game us brokenly bad despite having a fairly strong IP. Edited by ScottieATF

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When on the topic of 40k vs. Armada

 

What Armada does have is:

 

- it's reasonably priced

- it sets up quickly

- it plays quickly

- the rules are pretty clear - and they don't change every other year

 

What Armada doesn't have is: 

 

- multiple interesting factions: rebs and imps are cool, and you can always pretend its a civil war/fighting fringe pirates or some such when fighting mirror matches, but its still only 2 factions

 

Blood for the Blood God, Skulls for the Skull Throne!

Which is why some want to Convert Star Trek and Babylon 5 and more over to Armada...

https://www.facebook.com/groups/367553396773403/

 

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When on the topic of 40k vs. Armada

 

What Armada does have is:

 

- it's reasonably priced

- it sets up quickly

- it plays quickly

- the rules are pretty clear - and they don't change every other year

 

What Armada doesn't have is: 

 

- multiple interesting factions: rebs and imps are cool, and you can always pretend its a civil war/fighting fringe pirates or some such when fighting mirror matches, but its still only 2 factions

 

Blood for the Blood God, Skulls for the Skull Throne!

Which is why some want to Convert Star Trek and Babylon 5 and more over to Armada...

https://www.facebook.com/groups/367553396773403/

 

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1347212/star-trek-armada

 

and Battlestar:

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1344903/battlestar-armada

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I'm intrigued why people are arguing Wargame Vs Board game?

 

A board game can be a wargame, what it cannot be is a miniatures game.

 

Heck, Squad Leader is a very famous board game. It was one of the first wargames.

 

The line that divides these games is so blurred its not worth trying to categorise them right now.

 

Any how... continue...  :P

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A board game can be a wargame, what it cannot be is a miniatures game.

Actually, "miniatures board game" is becoming an increasingly popular genre of games.

 

 

Hence why trying categorise too much is silly. Let the game be what it is...  :D

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Chess is actually a miniature board game, same with risk. It has been around for a while.

The difference lies in play and scale usually. Miniature War games usually have more going on than "kill all the things!". Things like objectives, missions, etc make war games. Board games are usually straight forward with vary little variance aside from some strategy and in X-Wing's case list building (its always kill kill kill so no real variance there). Armada differs because EVERYTHING is different every time. I don't care if you play the same guy 10 times with the same lists, objectives will vary, style of play will vary, strategy based on goals will change, and the play area changes. That is a LOT of variance.

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I officially hate the word meta.

 

Armada is dead, I will PM you all my address and you can send me your fleets for proper disposal.

 

But, seriously, Armada is here to stay, there are enough gamers out there that love capitol ship combat. Ever since they let loose their first broadside or boarding action in Wooden Ships and Iron Men, they wanted fleet actions. There are also enough miniature gamers in the world playing with more complicated rule sets that will be drawn to Armada for various reasons.

 

I wish it would but, I do not see Armada overtaking X-Wing unless FFG stops supporting X-Wing altogether (wish I had grabbed a copy of the Doom expansion before FFG gave up that IP). That's not going to happen though for a couple of reasons:

 

1.  Star Wars IP prints its own money.

 

2. X-Wing appeals to the casual gamer.

 

X-Wing and armada are both miniatures games. X-Wing and Armada are both wargames. Where they differ, and the reason X-Wing will continue to have greater appeal than Armada is this:

 

Armada = Wargame medium(ish)

 

X-Wing = Wargame Lite (great taste, less filling)

 

X-Wing will always reach a wider audience due to its lighter rule set and faster pace.

 

I'm going to take it into the boardgame realm now and go out on a limb. There are more copies of Risk out there on people's shelves than Axis & Allies Europe or Pacific 1940 . Both are boardgames, both have little plastic figures, use dice for combat and take a while to finish. Risk is more widely sold has much lighter rules than the A&A series. A&A will probably never overtake Risk, but A&A goes strong in its own right.

 

Do I/we want Armada to be an X-Wing killer? Probably not, because through X-Wing we will see new gamers take their first steps up out of the casual realm and say "I want more". Armada and all those other meatier games we enjoy will be waiting to greet them with open arms and tons of dice.

Edited by RedPriest

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My biggest gripe about x wing is the feeling that without constantly putting new ships into your fleet, you'll never get to be as good as the guy who's got unlimited pockets to put new (multiple) ships into play. Also the some of the impossible (or at least it felt like it) to find without a nosebleed markup ships. I never played outside of my friends or their friends within homes, but after a while the combat gets stale unless you add more ships. I wanted some interceptors (both sides) and they were constantly out of stock or marked up to nearly 2x retail.

 

Maybe because this game feels fresh it's different at the moment. Maybe the scale makes it more fun too for me. I like the large ships. I just wish my area had ANY places to meet up and play. I'm still stuck with my friends, and we're rarely on schedules that allow semi-consistent playing.

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The difference lies in play and scale usually. Miniature War games usually have more going on than "kill all the things!". Things like objectives, missions, etc make war games. Board games are usually straight forward with vary little variance aside from some strategy and in X-Wing's case list building (its always kill kill kill so no real variance there).

Yeah, not really the way I see it at all. The primary difference to me is actually the board. Wargames have a much less formalized playing surface. You might have a decorated mat to play on, but the actual game relevant features of the playing surface (terrain and obstacles) can change from game to game while a board game has a provided playing surface with explicitly defined features. Another difference, though not as hard and fast, is that wargames tend to have an element of list building. In a board game you generally just pick a pawn to play. Your choice might be purely aesthetic or it might carry different game consequences, but in a board game it is generally a package deal, you make a single choice and get whatever benefits and drawbacks are associated with that choice. In a wargame you almost always have an option to customize your game resources to suit how YOU want to play, creating an element of game play before the game actually starts (a significant factor in the appeal of wargames, and also, I feel, a major source of the false dichotomy between competitive and narrative players).

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I will say Forgottenlore that you need to check some war games out first. . . Here let me show you a few.

Dystopian Wars

dw-insane-table.jpg

Tabletop Terraformer's war game terrain (Eldar in the back is named Steve btw)

a7d1fb95866cc08b0222e0fe15c3e075.jpg

Dropzone Commander (their cut and paste terrain)

maxresdefault.jpg

Battlefleet Gothic (great use of the dark Eldar Warp bubble)

dscf2641.jpg

These are not exceptions to the rule, these are the rules. These games all use terrain that is variable, but they rely on terrain. These are all considered top war games as well. Hell I have not even gotten into Flames of War and the like...

I will say as well that Ascension, Dominion, Quarriors, and other build as you play games are in the board game category (sub category cards and dice, go figure). Those games are deck and dice building as you play games.

I consider X-Wing to be a boardgames due to size of the games and the lack of variance. My opinion there.

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...and I'm fooling around with a Battlefleet Gothic conversion

 

But ... BFG already has good rules :o

Just for fun

 

Why else would you be playing?

The immersion of lore

 

And that's not fun?

I am sure I had fun in there. . . Maybe it got lost in the Forgeworld space citadel I got for my space marines, the lore I made, the characters. . . Etc. . . It's somewhere in there. . . Just got to dig it out. . . Maybe under my dreams of scratch building a warlord. . .

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These games all use terrain that is variable, but they rely on terrain.

You just repeated the point I was making. While some people might have a particular, finely modeled tabletop that they don't change for their wargames, the fundamental distinction between them is that wargames such as the warhammers, dropzone commander, infinity, Malefaux, Warmahordes, x-wing, armada, necromunda, Mordheim and so on don't have hard and fast rules about where terrain can go, sometimes not even for effects. Wargames leave details like that up to the players. Board games have rigidly defined rules governing the play surface.

Oh, and tabletops like those pictures are NOT the norm, those are the goal. Most of the time the best wargamers can manage is a green covered tabletop with maybe a couple 1" tall painted styrofoam hills and a few scraggly model trees to represent a forest. It's sad, really.

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Look, I am tired of this portion of the discussion. Each opinion is their own. To me X-Wing does not fit what standard of a wargame while armada does squeak through. That is my opinion, that has nothing to do with if this game will make it or not (which it will, FFG's track record with games is pretty good)

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