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Deadshane

Is Armada gonna make it?

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To most it is a negative. And regardless still represents additional time and money required to even get to play those pieces.

 

It's very simple in my case...

 

If I ask any wargamer I know they say pre-painted minatures is a negative.  The vast majority could in my humble opinion also do a better job of the painting too.

If I ask any boardgamer I know they say pre-painted minatures is a positive.

 

I know many more wargamers than boardgamers because of the circles I hang out in.  Therefore if my experience "most" would say prepainting is paying for something they don't want.

 

The issue is especially acute with Armada because to play at 300pts you may only need 2 (Empire) or 3 (Rebel) Ships.  Now saying there is any comparison between having to paint a tournament fleet vs a tournament 40k army is an absolute joke... Even a DZC combined ship / infantry army is a major undertaking compared to 2 very small ships ;-)

Edited by dms

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Pre-painted and assembled does not eliminate the ability to convert and repaint. As evidenced by the number of players in X-wing and Armada still exercising the hobby end of things with these products.

If the product is unassembled and unpainted you will always be forced to incur the extra time and cost, where as if it is pre-painted and assembled that option is still open to you but remains optional. So how can that not been seen as a positive to both camps in the end?

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Now this Tactics squad comes unpainted, unassembled

 

To many people, myself included, this is a positive, not a negative.

  

To most it is a negative. And regardless still represents additional time and money required to even get to play those pieces.

If the prepainted quality is high enough (such as with x-wing and armada), prepainted is a positive. If the quality of the prepaints is low, then it is a drawback.

My FLGS has always been pretty exclusively GW and Warmahordes (with several people who make decent money painting miniatures on commission), even there everyone lists not needing to paint x-wing figs as a huge advantage.

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I am 37 and used to play warhammer, I am a poor painter and always saw the painting part as more of a chore than fun. But even my painting is way better than what pre painted used to mean. Now I am older and have a family I have limited hobby time, my children wont leave my things alone, so the idea that I dont have to use my limited time painting is really appealing. I still have all my paints and will do the squadrons at some point, but the idea of painting something bigger than a bloodbowl team is not going to happen. I have plenty of unassembled let alone unpainted minatures if thats what I want to do. But right now what I want to do is play games when I can. And maybe that is the sweet spot they are aiming for former wargammers who dont have time to paimt, of an age to feel affinity for starwars through toys or computer games that were around in the nineties, have money to spend but dont want to spend as much as a GW minature games cost for the amount of time they might play.

Or that might just be me?

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I am 37 and used to play warhammer, I am a poor painter and always saw the painting part as more of a chore than fun. But even my painting is way better than what pre painted used to mean. Now I am older and have a family I have limited hobby time, my children wont leave my things alone, so the idea that I dont have to use my limited time painting is really appealing. I still have all my paints and will do the squadrons at some point, but the idea of painting something bigger than a bloodbowl team is not going to happen. I have plenty of unassembled let alone unpainted minatures if thats what I want to do. But right now what I want to do is play games when I can. And maybe that is the sweet spot they are aiming for former wargammers who dont have time to paimt, of an age to feel affinity for starwars through toys or computer games that were around in the nineties, have money to spend but dont want to spend as much as a GW minature games cost for the amount of time they might play.

Or that might just be me?

 

You're not alone. I'm not a family man yet, but I plan to be one day. Even now, while I'm just working and living, I love having the option to paint but not needing to. The best.

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Pre-painted and assembled does not eliminate the ability to convert and repaint. As evidenced by the number of players in X-wing and Armada still exercising the hobby end of things with these products.

If the product is unassembled and unpainted you will always be forced to incur the extra time and cost, where as if it is pre-painted and assembled that option is still open to you but remains optional. So how can that not been seen as a positive to both camps in the end?

 

I can only assume that the cost of assembly and painting is factored into the price. If I'm going to repaint them anyway, I'd prefer not to have already paid someone else to do it.

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I am 37 and used to play warhammer, I am a poor painter and always saw the painting part as more of a chore than fun. But even my painting is way better than what pre painted used to mean. Now I am older and have a family I have limited hobby time, my children wont leave my things alone, so the idea that I dont have to use my limited time painting is really appealing. I still have all my paints and will do the squadrons at some point, but the idea of painting something bigger than a bloodbowl team is not going to happen. I have plenty of unassembled let alone unpainted minatures if thats what I want to do. But right now what I want to do is play games when I can. And maybe that is the sweet spot they are aiming for former wargammers who dont have time to paimt, of an age to feel affinity for starwars through toys or computer games that were around in the nineties, have money to spend but dont want to spend as much as a GW minature games cost for the amount of time they might play.

Or that might just be me?

 

You're not alone. I'm not a family man yet, but I plan to be one day. Even now, while I'm just working and living, I love having the option to paint but not needing to. The best.

 

It's even better when you get a little older, and you can get your children to do your painting for you.

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Pre-painted and assembled does not eliminate the ability to convert and repaint. As evidenced by the number of players in X-wing and Armada still exercising the hobby end of things with these products.

If the product is unassembled and unpainted you will always be forced to incur the extra time and cost, where as if it is pre-painted and assembled that option is still open to you but remains optional. So how can that not been seen as a positive to both camps in the end?

 

I can only assume that the cost of assembly and painting is factored into the price. If I'm going to repaint them anyway, I'd prefer not to have already paid someone else to do it.

And yet Armada and X-wing rank among the cheaper miniatures games.

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Pre-painted and assembled does not eliminate the ability to convert and repaint. As evidenced by the number of players in X-wing and Armada still exercising the hobby end of things with these products.

If the product is unassembled and unpainted you will always be forced to incur the extra time and cost, where as if it is pre-painted and assembled that option is still open to you but remains optional. So how can that not been seen as a positive to both camps in the end?

 

I can only assume that the cost of assembly and painting is factored into the price. If I'm going to repaint them anyway, I'd prefer not to have already paid someone else to do it.

And yet Armada and X-wing rank among the cheaper miniatures games.

 

 

And imagine how much cheaper again they'd be if the models were unassembled and unpainted!

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Pre-painted and assembled does not eliminate the ability to convert and repaint. As evidenced by the number of players in X-wing and Armada still exercising the hobby end of things with these products.

If the product is unassembled and unpainted you will always be forced to incur the extra time and cost, where as if it is pre-painted and assembled that option is still open to you but remains optional. So how can that not been seen as a positive to both camps in the end?

 

I can only assume that the cost of assembly and painting is factored into the price. If I'm going to repaint them anyway, I'd prefer not to have already paid someone else to do it.

And yet Armada and X-wing rank among the cheaper miniatures games.

 

And imagine how much cheaper again they'd be if the models were unassembled and unpainted!

You mean more expensive right? You understand that models that are unassembled are harder to sell for a new game right? On top of that, it takes a few more molds to create a model that can be assembled easily, then they have to make assembly instructions, oh and new boxes to hold the ships. . .

Yea it would actually cost more.

What is more desirable to people, a box with a picture of what you could do (with lots and lots of practice), or a painted model that they can buy and play right then and there?

Oh yea, they would need a pro painter to paint at least 1 of each model for the pictures on the boxes.

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What is more desirable to people, a box with a picture of what you could do (with lots and lots of practice), or a painted model that they can buy and play right then and there?

 

Well to me (and everyone who enjoys painting and modelling) the unassembled model is more attractive.

 

I do enjoy the fact that Armada models are pre-painted, but only because I have a wide variety of models to assemble for other systems and for display.

 

If pre-paints were the only thing available I'd be extremely unhappy.

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Well to me (and everyone who enjoys painting and modelling) the unassembled model is more attractive.

 

Uumm, not to be 'that guy', but saying everyone is probably going to be an overstatement. Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree from a personal standpoint at all; I love painting and modeling a ton too, and I do it for everything to a lesser or greater extent (Pre-paints don't tend to last long around me: I've got this terrible notion that they're like an artist's sketch just before they get down to actually painting).  That said, I'm really liking FFG's prepaints because we have an even quality standard that I've come not to expect in a lot of my opponents 'polymer grey' forces. This way, I can have things painted however I want, and still know that I'm across the table from another nice and vibrant fleet.

 

I'll admit, the news that Armada fighters weren't going to come primered and washed, then ink stenciled was a bit of a shock to me. Seeing bare plastic again makes me want to tear up: but que sara, sara. So, prepaints is accessible, it looks nice, it draws in more people, and I don't  think leaving it uncolored or unassembled (what little there is) would reduce the price tag enough to offset the other losses that would be incurred from a smaller player base. I'm not sure if Lyraeus's point on it being more monetarily expensive in the short term is right (maybe it is, maybe not) but I think the argument certainly has merit.

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Again, the pre-painted nature of the models in no way prevents you from re-painting the models if that would be your preference.

Nothing is being denied to you by the models being pre-painted.

Again, I pay for them to be prepainted. If I wanted to paint them myself, I would expect them to be cheaper. A small model the size of a VSD I would not expect to pay more than $20 for.

I mean, this whole thing started because someone listed the prepaint as a pro, but some people think of it as a con. All I'm saying is that it CAN be a con. Not everyone will think of it as a pro.

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You are getting more than the model however. You are getting all the necessary components to lay it in the table the minute you bought it.

You are in the minority here btw. People don't mind paying the $40 (cheaper online, I know) because it gives them access to a model that is well designed, well detailed, has a decent off the shelf paint job (you have no idea how many people cant paint well. . . ) and comes with everything you need as long as you already got a core set.

That is pretty impressive. I have yet to spend $40 on Malifaux, Firestorm Armada (the closest game that needs the least amount of prep), 40K, WHFB, Warmahordes, etc for a product that has the same playability right of the box. I can't go to tournaments with the previously mentioned games without painting and basing which is additional costs. (Adepticon standards is usually the base standard for tournaments).

Show me a unit you get for $40 or less in any game but X-Wing that has the same playability as the VSD straight from the box.

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You are getting more than the model however. You are getting all the necessary components to lay it in the table the minute you bought it.

I mean, I never said otherwise.

I just don't see having to assemble or paint a model as a con. I don't see pre-paints as a pro. I'm also not alone in this regard. I happen to really enjoy painting and modelling, and again, I'm not alone in this regard.

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That's fine, people are also not alone in seeing it as a pro.

Personally, I don't mind. When I want to repaint my models I can. If I don't have time, or the skill to do what I want done well, I am under no pressure to paint. I won't have to shell out money to those that have the time either, this allows me to attend tournaments without other players sneering at my dozens and dozens of models that cost me hundreds upon hundreds of dollars to acquire. . .

Any who, I see your point, I am just saying that while there is your side and the other side there are people like me who are right in the middle

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Again, the pre-painted nature of the models in no way prevents you from re-painting the models if that would be your preference.

Nothing is being denied to you by the models being pre-painted.

 

They do.  Well, they don't stop me repainting - but they don't look as good.  The paint used is thick, and difficult to remove from the plastic.  I found with my Assault Frigate, that a lot of the fine detail - such as  vents and parts of the 'internals' shown are obscured by the paint.

Pre-painted vs. Not - Mage Knight used to go that way.  The vast majority of their pieces were pre-painted plastic, in the same sort of hardwearing paint that FF uses...  Even they offered a set of their Unlimited series that was unpainted.  And the pieces were more detailed because of it.

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