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Deadshane

Is Armada gonna make it?

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I may pass out if I see any activity here in NEPA (Scranton) area. I only know of one LGS, and they don't promote that they even do anything other than card games.

Well, maybe all your good karma was used up on The Office. If it helps, it was one of the best shows on television. 

 

 

Bar none, the #1 question I get when I say I'm from Scranton.

#2 predates The Office and that was "Isn't PA full of Amish people"? I rolled my eyes a lot at that one.

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Managed to get 15 people here for a Saturday tournament on a weekend of an X-wing qualifier just 2 hours away with Worlds Sold out so I'm thinking at least locally it's going to go solid.

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I'm not in the prediction business, but "is Armada going to make it?" I hope so....

 

As a very long term player of wargames made by a major UK based retailer I'm sick to death of the terrible rules writing I associate with them and also the powercreep of every new product in a product range.  So I'm glad I've found a FFG product which feels like a wargame I can enjoy.

 

I may be under a false impression but so far everything I've played of FFG has felt like someone has put some thought into the game and rules, and the games play well (it actually surprised me what portion of my board game collection was FFG, I'd never realised I was a 'fan').

 

What worries me about Armada is i) the daft cost of the minatures, his is definately in the same league as the UK based war games company ii) diluting down the difference between Imperial and Rebel as the squeeze more ships out of the franchise iii) possible power creep; I haven't played enough games yet but I'm struggling to decide if the points per squadron or ship are really balanced.... time will tell.

Edited by dms

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What worries me about Armada is i) the daft cost of the minatures, his is definately in the same league as the UK based war games company ii) diluting down the difference between Imperial and Rebel as the squeeze more ships out of the franchise iii) possible power creep; I haven't played enough games yet but I'm struggling to decide if the points per squadron or ship are really balanced.... time will tell.

 

I don't think that's true. At the moment two VSDs and fighters can fill up a list, which assuming core set plus expansion VSD plus fighter expansion means you're looking at ~$110 for a functioning fleet at internet prices (add another $14 to improve the fighter complement if you like). I'm not very familiar with 40k, but my understanding is there's no way in hell you can run a full army for $110. 

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I'm not in the prediction business, but "is Armada going to make it?" I hope so....

 

As a very long term player of wargames made by a major UK based retailer I'm sick to death of the terrible rules writing I associate with them and also the powercreep of every new product in a product range.  So I'm glad I've found a FFG product which feels like a wargame I can enjoy.

 

I may be under a false impression but so far everything I've played of FFG has felt like someone has put some thought into the game and rules, and the games play well (it actually surprised me what portion of my board game collection was FFG, I'd never realised I was a 'fan').

 

What worries me about Armada is i) the daft cost of the minatures, his is definately in the same league as the UK based war games company ii) diluting down the difference between Imperial and Rebel as the squeeze more ships out of the franchise iii) possible power creep; I haven't played enough games yet but I'm struggling to decide if the points per squadron or ship are really balanced.... time will tell.

 

I've feel similarly with the few FFG games I've tried aside from Armada. They do feel well polished and tested. Of course I really appreciate that, especially after games like 40K, where you might wander if a second person ever even read some of that stuff before it was published for all the world to abuse. The downside to this, in my opinion, is that to do this they limit the boundaries of the game it seems. Releases are slow, controlled. Customization is limited, not as open ended as some other games. It's the other side of the coin I guess, we "pay" for the polishing by limiting the content so that it can all be adequately balanced. 

As for power creep, for me, it's too early to tell I think. I haven't noticed anything super overpowered yet in my games. I hate the Neb B sometimes, but the internet really seems to like it somehow. I'm an Imperial player anyway so what do I care. That aside, everyone seems happy and not angry about anything specific, so I'll take it. Could Wave 2 disrupt that equation? Absolutely. The Imperial Class Destroyer certainly has potential. Though it sounds like Home One might be scarier rules-wise. Could Wave 2 make Large Ships the new "thing" that everyone has to have or will lose? Who knows. Hope not though of course. 

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What worries me about Armada is i) the daft cost of the minatures, his is definately in the same league as the UK based war games company ii) diluting down the difference between Imperial and Rebel as the squeeze more ships out of the franchise iii) possible power creep; I haven't played enough games yet but I'm struggling to decide if the points per squadron or ship are really balanced.... time will tell.

 

I don't think that's true. At the moment two VSDs and fighters can fill up a list, which assuming core set plus expansion VSD plus fighter expansion means you're looking at ~$110 for a functioning fleet at internet prices (add another $14 to improve the fighter complement if you like). I'm not very familiar with 40k, but my understanding is there's no way in hell you can run a full army for $110. 

 

 

I don't think you could even get a rulebook and codex for that, let alone two troops and a HQ. Never mind a 1,500 point army.

 

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I actually can't thing of a game besides X-Wing that is cheaper

Malefaux. Free rules and you should be able to get a decent crew for noticeably under a hundred

Infinity, I think. I don't actually play infinity, but it has a small model count as well.

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Infinity has a small model count (ranging from 5-15 depending on faction) and the prices are pretty decent.  Rule book is free online.

 

However unless you have a lot of terrain that is where the cost to play Infinity kicks in.  You need a lot of terrain to play a good game of Infinity.

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What I meant was the cost of the miniatures themselves on an individual basis not total cost of ownership of an army seems expensive.  £15 on a Nebulon-B seems expensive to me.  For the price of two or three of them I'd get a lot more GW miniature for my money, yes it's not much of a GW army but it's a great looking model.

 

So far to play Armada I've bought core set, 2 play mat, 2 additional ships and 2 squadron boxes; all so the Mrs and I can play 300pts.  What's that, £200 ish?  Personally I feel like I've spent a lot of money and don't have much to show for it!  Perhaps I'm too old though and remember the days when a five pack of lead miniatures was £2 ish.

 

However I can afford it, and I enjoy the game.  So a non point I guess, butI find it hard to get casual "board gaming" people interested in spending that sort of money when they feel they could buy several board games which entertain multiple people for that price point.

I'd also prefer the models to be unassembled and unpainted because I enjoy that aspect of the hobby so I feel I'm spending money on something (the painting) I didn't want.  So far with Armada I've painted the core squadrons and I'm making some lava rock asteroids.  It's also pretty clear any experienced painter can do a lot better job than the prepainted models ;-) meow!

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For the price of 2 Nebulon-B's you can get a tactical squad. Now this Tactics squad comes unpainted, unassembled, and is not enough to play a game with. You still need an HQ unit. That will be a third Nebulon-B. I could have played a game with my first 2 Nebulon-B's for the price of that tactical squad. And my Nebulon-B's would not have been trash either.

Let's go by the core set. Online it is $70 that is what a rank maybe in 40k? Maybe a tactical squad and a Commander? Not including the rule book you will need, the Codex to play your tactical squad (hmmm now what version to pick for my marines. . . ) dice, ruled, paint, glue, pliers, etc, etc.

This game is Far cheaper than 40k. No contest there.

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Infinity has a small model count (ranging from 5-15 depending on faction) and the prices are pretty decent.  Rule book is free online.

 

However unless you have a lot of terrain that is where the cost to play Infinity kicks in.  You need a lot of terrain to play a good game of Infinity.

Malifaux is the same from when I played. Terrain is important

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Interesting thread that I am keeping an eye on.  I got to watch part of an Armada game Tuesday after my 40K game that night.  I have to admit, compared to 40K, the price of Armada is not that high.  Just the rule book and a single codex for one army is a good $100 and that is with no minis.  Now if you like the armies in some of recent boxed sets, you can get 2 small armies for $125 with a rule book but you will still need a full codex for each army (at $50 each) to expand them.  (and you have to paint and assemble, which is a major problem for me time wise.  I would rather be playing.)

 

So why have I not gotten Armada yet?  I really am not sure.  I jumped on the old WOTC Starship Battles game, and comparatively the minis were crap.  Of course they were individually cheaper, but the game play was also way simple.  I have read the Armada rules and run around here looking at posts.  It all seems really capital ship like and good stuff.  I think there are 3 things holding me back.

 

1.  The pile of unopened X-wing I own.  I keep up with X-wing partly because I love the ships.  But I rarely play.  Will Armada be any different?  Armada even takes longer than a game of X-wing.  This concerns me because I don't want a pile of Armada to sit next to the pile of X-wing.  (Only a little higher so we get the two level effect, with a little path running down the middle...)

 

2.  Cards.  One reason I don't play X-wing as much is all the cards.  I just want to shoot things, and all the cards make the rules change and make the game much more complicated.  I see Armada is heading down the same path.  I quit playing CCGs for a reason, but these games seem to have a lot of the bad points of deck building in them just like old CCG.  (At least the cards are not random...)

 

3,  Choices.  I know, odd compared to me just complaining about cards above.  I wish FFG would announce wave 3 so we at least have some idea what else is coming.  WOTC had a lot of ship types right up front (of course they mixed Prequel and Classic.)  With the EU in such flux, I had no idea what we will see.  I want to see Loronar Strike Cruisers, Carrack light cruisers, Dreadnought class heavy cruisers, Lancer anti-fighter frigates.  I don't want to see a bunch of new made up stuff like the Raider when there were old WEG designed ships that would work.  Actually if Wave 3 was announced to contain Correlian Gunships, Carrack light cruisers, and TIE Defenders I would probably jump on board.

 

Ok, sorry about all that.  That was a bit more than I had planned to write.  Anyhow, that gives some of my thoughts on where Armada is and where it might go.  If I cave in it will likely be after GenCon or if Minimarket has a sale on Armada.  :)

 

Thanks,

Duncan

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What I meant was the cost of the miniatures themselves on an individual basis not total cost of ownership of an army seems expensive.  £15 on a Nebulon-B seems expensive to me.  For the price of two or three of them I'd get a lot more GW miniature for my money, yes it's not much of a GW army but it's a great looking model.

 

So far to play Armada I've bought core set, 2 play mat, 2 additional ships and 2 squadron boxes; all so the Mrs and I can play 300pts.  What's that, £200 ish?  Personally I feel like I've spent a lot of money and don't have much to show for it!  Perhaps I'm too old though and remember the days when a five pack of lead miniatures was £2 ish.

 

I've spent about $350, because I'm an idiot (I can afford it, but still). As a result, I have nearly every possible list currently available; 3xGSD, 2xVSD, 2xImpSquads, 2xRebelSquads, 2xAFII, 3xNebulon, 6xCorvette. 

 

But yes, I do agree that the price point for the individual models, combined with the price point for the core set, is a higher barrier to entry than X-Wing presents. 

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@vadersson:

 

1. When you decide to buy into Armada, you might like the fact that you have unopened X-wing stuff. A lot of people actually sold their X-wing to afford Armada as X-wing continues to be more popular than ever. For these people, Armada was the game they were truly waiting for.

 

 2. The great thing about minis gaming is that you can always customize your game in your own terms. Ship and squadron cards are essential since they contain stats that make the game run. The only Upgrade cards you really need are your Commanders. There is no stopping you from simply throwing down ships and making them just shoot each other. As you learn to play, you might crave for the variety these cards give. Introduce them to your game slowly and surely. 

 

3. As long as Armada continues to sell, I'm sure FFG will eventually get around to making these ships for you in future Waves! Think of the Raider as the extent in which FFG can commit to game design. X-wing had a need for a corvette-type ship for epic play and they made one up when they can't find any from the EU. In Armada, there are is no lack of EU stuff to tap into and Episode VII will open up even more ships that would be part of the new canon.

 

 

Hope this helps with your decision in getting to Armada. We are few compared to those in X-wing but as you may see from our threads, we are enamored with this game and passionate about seeing it reach its full potential! When you have taken the plunge, let us know your thoughts here in the forums. We have had quite a few thoughts from players new to miniatures gaming. We would be interested in your take of the game play from the perspective of a seasoned 40k gamer. 

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What I meant was the cost of the miniatures themselves on an individual basis not total cost of ownership of an army seems expensive.  £15 on a Nebulon-B seems expensive to me.  For the price of two or three of them I'd get a lot more GW miniature for my money, yes it's not much of a GW army but it's a great looking model.

 

So far to play Armada I've bought core set, 2 play mat, 2 additional ships and 2 squadron boxes; all so the Mrs and I can play 300pts.  What's that, £200 ish?  Personally I feel like I've spent a lot of money and don't have much to show for it!  Perhaps I'm too old though and remember the days when a five pack of lead miniatures was £2 ish.

 

However I can afford it, and I enjoy the game.  So a non point I guess, butI find it hard to get casual "board gaming" people interested in spending that sort of money when they feel they could buy several board games which entertain multiple people for that price point.

I'd also prefer the models to be unassembled and unpainted because I enjoy that aspect of the hobby so I feel I'm spending money on something (the painting) I didn't want.  So far with Armada I've painted the core squadrons and I'm making some lava rock asteroids.  It's also pretty clear any experienced painter can do a lot better job than the prepainted models ;-) meow!

 

Yeah, on a model by model comparison it's not that much cheaper than GW (although that still depends on the comparison. A Corvette is a lot cheaper than a Landraider, for instance) but you've really got to focus on the total cost to play the game, not the cost of the models individually.

 

And remember, this game is aimed at wargamers, not board gaming people. It's aiming to suck in people who play 40K and WHFB, Flames of War, Warmachine, etc. If you're trying to convert people to the game, you need to find new targets!

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To most it is a negative. And regardless still represents additional time and money required to even get to play those pieces.

 

 

Its impossible to state "most" for the positive or negative.  The represent samples are either insufficient in size, or based on a biased medium.

For example, I know *hundreds* of people who prefer the painting to prepainted...  But I used to work at a GW store.

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To most it is a negative. And regardless still represents additional time and money required to even get to play those pieces.

 

I don't know that that's true. Lots of people love painting and modelling. Even for prepainted games like X Wing or Armada, there are loads of people who love repainting them.

 

I agree it's nice to not have to assemble and paint the models before I have to use them, but at the same time I only say that because I have many hundreds of unpainted models to carry on with for other game systems, so my urge to paint and model is well and truly sated. If all I had was prepaints, I'd definitely be repainting them. Heck, I already touched up my Gladiator because I wasn't happy with the paintjob.

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