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Goshawk

Initiative or Objectives...which do you prefer?

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I very much like (is it love?) the objective selection aspect of Armada, and I'm curious what folks think about the choices it presents. Do you go in low on fleet points hoping for your chance to select First Player (and thus, Initiative), or would you rather cede initiative to force the other player to select one of your objectives (assuming your fleet is constructed n a way that it can give those objecticpves a good run)? Is it a given that the lowest fleet point "bidder" will select him/herself as First Player and thus pick from the opposing player's objectives? Can you glean enough information from the opponent's fleet composition to make the choice easy?

From my very inexperienced viewpoint, if our fleets are similar in composition, I'll opt for Initiative (if I get the choice). If I'm Imperial looking at a nimble Reb, it feels like I need to be Player 2 and let him pick an objective from my pool. I suspect I'll feel the same if it's my nimble Rebs looking across the table at Imperials.

The real question...is Initiative as valuable at 300/400 points? Or, is it best to rely on a favorable mission objective?

Thoughts?

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Objectives all-the-way. Defying the convention of: "If imp, try to shoot first."

 

Instead, I have a 300pt list with objectives I love, and roll with whatever I get. I use my tactical and strategic ability to outplay my opponent and try not to rely on gimicks like "first player gets two 'ideal' shots, so go for broke to get it"

 

Objectives can really make a game for you, though so can going first. The thing for me is that you can count on using your objectives and building a strategy around them rather than trying to go first all the time.

 

I shoot for consistency, eliminate as much random-chance as possible.

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Agreed, Objectives for me currently. I want them badly enough to want a 8-10 point initiative bid, just so I can choose to go second.

I'm not experienced enough to try and plan for all objectives against all lists. If I manage to control the variables a bit by only having to know 3 possible missions, it allows me to be more flexible when trying to account for enemy lists, Positioning, and strategies.

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For me it definitely depends on the list. That said I usually favor 1st player because you gin initiative but then you get to PICK from your opponents objectives and that allows you know to pick one that will favor you hipfully

 

Honestly, no objective favors you...that's kind of the point. Going first is a pretty big advantage, as setting up 2 back-to-back barrages of heavy firepower can be game winning. When you're first, the goal is to pick the objective that hurts you and helps him the least.

 

@Maturin: I think bidding to go second is a gross waste of points. First player has enough of an advantage that I'll take it when offered, but generally people are going to bid in order TO go first. So you're kinda hurting yourself in more games than you're helping imo. Especially when you consider how much 3-8 point upgrades can add to your combat ability.

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Depends on the build. I've been running pretty all or nothing builds but with a fairly low cost, and I've found having initiative to be the single most important factor in whether I win or not. This is terrible of me to admit since I've been such a fan of the objective system, but most of my builds actually ignore objectives and usually even fighters and aim to table my opponent as quickly as possible, usually round 4.

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I want to go first every time. I build my fleet to hopefully be able to have no big disadvantage for one color set of Objectives, to hopefully not give too much back to Second player. Honestly, I'm trying to win by blowing up the other guy, and just not lose because of Objective bonuses.

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In the tournament I was in on Sunday, I lost the initiative bid for all 3 games, and my opponent chose to go 2nd in each case.

 

What were the bids? I'm curious to see how many points are being left behind for these tactics.

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For me it definitely depends on the list. That said I usually favor 1st player because you gin initiative but then you get to PICK from your opponents objectives and that allows you know to pick one that will favor you hipfully

 

Honestly, no objective favors you...that's kind of the point. Going first is a pretty big advantage, as setting up 2 back-to-back barrages of heavy firepower can be game winning. When you're first, the goal is to pick the objective that hurts you and helps him the least.

 

@Maturin: I think bidding to go second is a gross waste of points. First player has enough of an advantage that I'll take it when offered, but generally people are going to bid in order TO go first. So you're kinda hurting yourself in more games than you're helping imo. Especially when you consider how much 3-8 point upgrades can add to your combat ability.

Perhaps I should be more specific - winning the initiative bid allows me to choose whether to go first or not, depending on what their list vs mine looks like. It's just that my current list is very much built around predicting my opponents moves, and around keeping my ships together. Do objectives like contested outpost, minefields, and ambush can set me up for success, hugely - whether or not I go first.

As many have said, I suppose it depends on the list! :)

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Outpost is almost certainly 40 points for them after 2 turns, then it depends how well the fights go and such to see if you can start winning points from the objective. The time I played this objective he had the token for 1st and 2nd turn, then by 3 he lost 1 of his 2 victories and my vic was close enough to contest it, and 4th turn saw his second ship burning to ash.

 

Just depends if you can dive in head-first and engage on the station by turn 3..and be sure to not lose any ships or many fighters while tabling him in order to get that 10-0.

 

Though, I do see Ambush as one of the few objectives that can actually swing very heavily in the first players favor...for instance if I have my 400 point list of: Vic1, Glad1 (Demolisher), and a Raider with squads. I can just put my Vic and Glad RIGHT in their face and my raider can catch up by turn 2 with ease. This allows me to blast away with my brawlers even sooner than usual and with my squadrons I can dive into the fight immediately.

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In the tournament I was in on Sunday, I lost the initiative bid for all 3 games, and my opponent chose to go 2nd in each case.

 

What were the bids? I'm curious to see how many points are being left behind for these tactics.

 

 

I was running a 298pt list, so I wasn't expecting to be winning many bids anyway. I remember one of the opponents was also 298 (he won the flip), but I can't remember the other 2 bids sorry.

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Outpost is almost certainly 40 points for them after 2 turns, then it depends how well the fights go and such to see if you can start winning points from the objective. The time I played this objective he had the token for 1st and 2nd turn, then by 3 he lost 1 of his 2 victories and my vic was close enough to contest it, and 4th turn saw his second ship burning to ash.

 

Just depends if you can dive in head-first and engage on the station by turn 3..and be sure to not lose any ships or many fighters while tabling him in order to get that 10-0.

 

The point of having Outpost as one of my objectives is that I'd usually be second player....and thus I get to sit on the outpost and start racking up points on turn one, while forcing my opponent to hurry into my gunsights.  :)  And again, with a list focused on concentrated long range firepower I'm happy if they want to stand off while I get victory points, or if they want to hurry close to engage me.

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If I'm running a dual victory list, my view is that I need to ensure favorable objectives, because it's not difficult to assemble a list of three objectives dual Vics would never, ever want to see. So I run the list at 290 points to ensure my opponent has to pick from mines, outpost, or gunnery. 

 

With less rigid lists, I'm more inclined to grab first player. 

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