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voidreturn

Organized Play?

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I'd agree with Budgernaut here: everyone knows SW as an IP, and the game sales a lot. I too suspect sales for BT to be lower and the Terrinoth IP being a lot less known. But I'd be in if this had an OP.

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OP will be coming in the spring, the start of the OP year.

Battlelore base game did not have stuff to support OP, not enough factions or unit variety for a competitive game and no way to construct a lore deck. There was also no additional content to could be sold to competitive players.

For 18 months we had a really good stand alone game.

Two things changed that.

Battlelore: command has been very successful, which has driven additional content for the app and board game. It's also made the board game more popular than ever.

Imperial assault has proved to be very successful, showing that competitive board game OP is possible for FFG.

The new army is out in September, a very quick turnaround for FFG, and at that speed they still have time to announce and release the elves before the spring OP season.

If the elves are released FFG will have quadrupled the content of the game (plus neutrals) this year, and established a pattern of releases consistent with a competitive game.

The biggest hint that OP is on the way is the new promo kit due in August, although sadly only for Americans, which includes information on how to run events and leagues. This would not have been included without input from the OP team. It also includes promo items that would be suitable as OP prizes.

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I really hope that if they make tournaments of Battlelore, they will use the command card system of Battlelore: Command.

 

This is the system I use in my real games because it remove the random of movements avaibility.

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Ugh, I really hope they don't.  Never really being sure where you'll be able to respond, and having to adapt accordingly is a key element to the Command and Colors games.  Battlelore 2nd Edition already takes steps to mitigate that some.  There are no "Recon" cards that only let you move 1 unit, no "Assault" cards that let you move every unit in a particular section, etc.  Most cards will let you order 2-3 units.  Might not always be exactly where you want them, but again, that's part of the game.

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I agree with Daverman.  The randomness of the command cards (and knowing the entire command deck and what's been drawn already) actually introduces some chance that can be mitigated with increased skill.  I find deciding on my command card play much easier in Battelore Command b/c not only do I know all of my possible moves for the rest of the game, I also know my opponents.  The "wizard" commands in the online game are also very indispensable to the point of reducing a lot of the strategic decision-making in the game.  I enjoy both but think the game works better with the traditional Command and Colors system.  I do hope that the scoring for OP is something like the head-to-head ten round free-for-alls in the online game.

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There is no skills in not being able to move the units you need to move.

While the BL:Command system, it gives you the power to manage your movements. You need to use them wisely or else you might get forced to use the Refresh at the worst moment. This is skill.

 

And I am only talking about the captain + scout commands. Not the wizard commands which most are derived from Lore cards. Only Onslaught and Darken the Skies are command cards, which would be avaible as one-time only commands.

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There is no skills in not being able to move the units you need to move.

While the BL:Command system, it gives you the power to manage your movements. You need to use them wisely or else you might get forced to use the Refresh at the worst moment. This is skill.

 

And I am only talking about the captain + scout commands. Not the wizard commands which most are derived from Lore cards. Only Onslaught and Darken the Skies are command cards, which would be avaible as one-time only commands.

 

There is significantly more skill involved in knowing the command deck, estimating the probability of drawing certain cards that will let you move in some ways, estimating the probability that your opponent has certain command cards from the same deck, making inferences about your opponent's hand based on prior movements, and then choosing the optimal play from your current hand based on this information, as compared to selecting from a completely known set of information.  Yes, sometimes you won't be able to move the units you would like to move due to bad luck, but the luck from drawing command cards is not like the random luck of a die result - it is "luck" that can be managed/influenced by your own skill at handling information.  If you just blindly play command cards in the tabletop version without any thought about managing your hand moving forward, you will much more likely end up "not being able to move the units you need to move" and you are not playing to win.  It all boils down to managing probabilities.

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I love trying to make a plan around the cards I have.  Reading your hand and knowing when to shift units from one area to another, and more importantly, keeping your units deployed in such a way that you can adjust as needed is a huge part of the game.  The biggest problem I ever ran into with this system was Memoir 44 when, occasionally, a player would draw fairly limited cards (recon and probe) while the other drew attacks and assaults and could simply order more units each turn.  That never happened too often, but as I said before, Battlelore 2nd Edition reduced that by not having such a large swing in unit cards.  They all pretty much order the same number of units.

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I like both systems and I think both require skill. I do think that the board game takes more nuanced knowlege for skill to come into play and in that reapect it takes more skill. I think the skill in BattleLore: Command is more obvious.

BattleLore (both 2nd Ed. and Command) is inherently a tactical game. You have to think a lot about troop movement and such when attacking. However, I prefer the board game's command system because it adds a strategic layer to the game. At least, that's my take on it -- that the board game's skill is more strategic than the app's skill requirement. Not that strategy isn't part of BL:C, but the board game adds a new layer with the hand/deck management.

One really interesting thing that can happen in the board game is that you make a strong push and then your opponent doesn't retaliate because they don't have the command card that orders units in that section. Personally, I like that. It tends to make the battles spread across the board. In BL:C, I feel like you attack one section of an army until it's dead and then move on to the next. I find that less interesting than the command system in the board game.

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OP will be coming in the spring, the start of the OP year.

Battlelore base game did not have stuff to support OP, not enough factions or unit variety for a competitive game and no way to construct a lore deck. There was also no additional content to could be sold to competitive players.

For 18 months we had a really good stand alone game.

Two things changed that.

Battlelore: command has been very successful, which has driven additional content for the app and board game. It's also made the board game more popular than ever.

Imperial assault has proved to be very successful, showing that competitive board game OP is possible for FFG.

The new army is out in September, a very quick turnaround for FFG, and at that speed they still have time to announce and release the elves before the spring OP season.

If the elves are released FFG will have quadrupled the content of the game (plus neutrals) this year, and established a pattern of releases consistent with a competitive game.

The biggest hint that OP is on the way is the new promo kit due in August, although sadly only for Americans, which includes information on how to run events and leagues. This would not have been included without input from the OP team. It also includes promo items that would be suitable as OP prizes.

With August only about one week away, this would be nice to have.

Although I have yet to see any published info about elves or any other "new" army to being released. I suspected there would be more and do hope other type of armies are being developed since I know the designer had quite a few planned for BL 1st version.

Edited by Caboose

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Jumping in late here.  Sometimes I get the feeling that FFG didn't expect their minis games to catch on as they have and have been caught a bit flat-footed.

 

X-Wing has been a big success.  Imperial Assault seems like it was mainly designed as a boardgame but it's the Skirmish mode that a lot of people want and they're trying to provide it.  There's a real lack of quality lower-commitment (i.e. - no assembly & painting) minis games on the market.

 

Personally, I would rather see Battlelore get the attention.  It can more easily support multiple factions, it's a good system that's been tuned through a lot of iterations by now, and I think it has a lot of potential.

 

But, the only ones who can make it happen is FFG - they need to promote it as a competitive game, start up some sort of OP program, and present a release schedule that shows people that they're supporting it as such.

 

Regarding the C&C system...  It's easy for a casual player to think:  "**** this sh*tty random game, I can't use ANY of these cards in my hand".  The truth is that usually you put yourself in that situation with the choices you made over the last few turns.  You didn't look ahead.  You didn't track what cards have already been played.  You didn't prepare yourself to be able to use the cards you already were holding.

 

Some games are like that.  I saw the same problem new players had in some naval games where they kept getting into trouble because big ships can't turn on a dime and they didn't plan their course several turns ahead like they should.  Instead, they just felt they kept losing and couldn't understand what they were doing wrong.

 

I'm not a C&C expert, but I've played 4-5 different games using the system, enough to get the gist of it.

 

Anyway, I think that Battlelore has a lot of potential if FFG was willing to change their perspective and think of it not as a boardgame, but a minis game on part with X-Wing.  Give us more units, fine tune and expand the point scale, give people more ability to design their own Lore decks, maybe add some sort of upgrade cards.

 

Or, if it's too far gone, fine.  Take the new L5R license and make a new Battlelore system game out of that, it's *perfect* for it, other than having a few too many factions.  Wouldn't take that much development and you get the opportunity to start with fresh buzz and apply everything you've learned about how to do it better the second time :)

Edited by dboeren

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Elves first to bring it in line with runewars.

Before the undead were announced ffg added the undead fluff to the heirs of blood book for descent. Now they have added the latari elves to the runebound 3rd edition fluff which may foreshadow the next faction announcement.

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They won't announce OP until the elves are announced. Though I desperately hope that they'll do Orcs of the Broken Plains instead. They are just so cool. Why is everything Star Wars???????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Because there's a new movie coming after 10 years of wait, and too many people are ready to burn their savings on SW merchandise, while BattleLore (despite being awesome) has a whole different audience? It's business man... they are paying for the SW licence, and they want clearly to use it to the max.

 

Also, I'm not sure I follow the logic to wait for Elves to have OP. If this were a priority, we'd already have all the factions available and OP active. If they haven't done it yet, they won't do that in the future, unless the sales of the game increase (see Imperial Assault: less stuff than BT available, but OP running)

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Or, if it's too far gone, fine.  Take the new L5R license and make a new Battlelore system game out of that, it's *perfect* for it, other than having a few too many factions.  Wouldn't take that much development and you get the opportunity to start with fresh buzz and apply everything you've learned about how to do it better the second time :)

 

For the little I know, the C&C Samurai Battle from Zvezda, which is basically a dead game, can be easily ported to L5R. The Honour & Fortune system in that game seems designed for a fantasy old Japan style universe. I'd love to see such a game ;-)

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They won't announce OP until the elves are announced. Though I desperately hope that they'll do Orcs of the Broken Plains instead. They are just so cool. Why is everything Star Wars???????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Because there's a new movie coming after 10 years of wait, and too many people are ready to burn their savings on SW merchandise, while BattleLore (despite being awesome) has a whole different audience? It's business man... they are paying for the SW licence, and they want clearly to use it to the max.

 

Also, I'm not sure I follow the logic to wait for Elves to have OP. If this were a priority, we'd already have all the factions available and OP active. If they haven't done it yet, they won't do that in the future, unless the sales of the game increase (see Imperial Assault: less stuff than BT available, but OP running)

Battlelore was created as a standalone game, which is why 18 months went by from release to first expansion. Then suddenly ffg announce and release 7 expansions in a short space of time.

Something made ffg sit up and take notice of Battlelore and now that the last of the expansions has been released we may be due further news.

The obvious reason is imperial assault, from a OP point of view the game is a great success.

Some players even bought 4x core sets so they can play any possible list.

Battlelore had enough in common with IA for the same OP strategy to be applied, scenario based games with points based forces. The only things missing were a 3rd faction and a way to tailor the lore deck, both of which were added in the expansions.

Another reason could be the OP team, they've painted themselves into a corner as far as the stable of OP games goes. It's made up of lcg's and star wars games. The last 3 lcg's to be announced have coincided with other lcg's dying (and being dropped from OP) and another star wars game will compete with the other star wars games for players. To grow OP a non-lcg non-star wars game is needed, the OP team May have set their sights on Battlelore. To be a competitive game more units were required which may explain the expansions.

Another reason could be the app team, the success of Battlelore command may have triggered the expansions. The app team have been quiet for a while about what they are working on, what game will follow elder sign and Battlelore? My favourite theory is that Battlelore is being brought in sync with runewars (undead then elves) before a runewars app is announced.

The final reason could be terrinoth itself, after years of isolation the various games are being brought back together. The cross game release of the undead and the new edition of runebound both point to this. Runebound has a reference to latari elves which wasn't in the previous edition, I expect the latari to make an appearance in the other games as well.

Whatever the reason you can be sure that the expansions are only the beginning of ffg's plan for Battlelore. If Battlelore gets OP support next year it will be announced in November. There is already an OP announcement planned for worlds, it would be the perfect time to reveal the next OP game.

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Well, we're doing an organized play event (not on FFG's official calendar) for BL this Saturday in Alamogordo, NM.

We've got enough stuff for 6 players to face off and that's without anyone having to bring their own stuff.

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