Help me choose: Scum Tricks

[Malc0r 8]

Greetings,

 

First time poster here. I have been debating with myself for so long now, but I could really use some help.

 

I have a regional championship coming up and would like to bring a fun, but competitive list. 

 

The list contains: Kavil, Palob and Guri. Both with different setups. I am so confused about what turret setup would be best and if this list can actually handle the current meta (RAC+Soontir, BBBBZ, Double Pancake, etc). Please advice me with tips, tricks, good/bad matchup's and other constructive feedback:

 

Scum Tricks A:

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/264512/scum-tricks-a

 

Scum Tricks B:

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/265625/scum-tricks-b

Here I have 3 points left..

Flechette Torpedoes on Kavil + Inertial Dampeners on Guri?

Hull upgrade on Kavil or Palob?

Hotshot Blaster on Palob?

Other ideas?

 

Thank you for your time!

 

[blade_mercurial 2,091]

I think this is a solid place to start:

 

Guri w/ virago, sensor jammer & autothrusters = 37

Palob w/ blaster turret & moldy crow = 27

Kavil w/ autoblaster turret, unhinged & engine upgrade = 31

95 pts so far.

 

The last 5 points could be used in a number of ways, but I think the best options are:

(1) predator on Guri, Vet Instincts on Kavil & determination on Palob. 

(2) lone wolf on Guri.  Then your choice of predator/push the limit on Kavil OR recon spec on Palob.

 

Go with the first option if you want to keep the list easy to fly (just keep them all relatively close together when you deploy, leading with Guri).  If you take LW on Guri, then how you deploy depends largely on what enemy ships you are up against (because you can't always flank effectively with Guri at PS 5----you have to be careful she doesn't get isolated and shot to bits before your other ships can get into the fight).

Edited June 10, 2015 by blade_mercurial

[CBMarkham 2,441]

I like this version:

 

100 points

 

PILOTS

Kavil (30)
Y-Wing (24), Blaster Turret (4), R4 Agromech (2)

Palob Godalhi (34)
HWK-290 (20), Opportunist (4), Blaster Turret (4), Recon Specialist (3), Moldy Crow (3)

Guri (36)
StarViper (30), Veteran Instincts (1), Virago (1), Autothrusters (2), Fire-Control System (2)

 

Do not underestimate Guri at PS7 over PS5. PS7 does plenty in this meta, out-pacing half the BroBot teams and giving you a chance to catch Super Dash, which could otherwise prove a nightmare. Guri is amazing, but BroBots and Dash both out-flying you can be brutal. Also, now you definitely get the drop on Chewy and Leebo, who might otherwise fly circles around you. With only 3 ships, you really need Guri to have an arc. He's your most expensive piece.  

 

Sensor Jammers on Guri along with Palob makes Guri REALLY hard to kill, but honestly, if they're prioritizing Guri over Palob, you're in a great situation to begin with. This list isn't made to survive (Palob is your toughest to pin down bump off, but having two ships with 4 red dice in a 360 arc gives you a really powerful opening salvo. Melt faces off. Win big. Party up.

 

If PS7 on your Guri makes you uncomfortable, Palob can go down to Predator, freeing up 1 more point to do the exact same thing with Xizor. Then, just stand Xizor near Kavil to give him a little extra lasting power at the start of the game, followed by trying to out-ace your enemies in the late game. I just don't much value PS9 over PS7, if you're going to have 0 points for the initiative bid. Other PS9s are likely to have outbid you, and Guri's ability is 1 point less, and much better with this squad.

Edited June 10, 2015 by CBMarkham

[Malc0r 8]

I think this is a solid place to start:

 

Guri w/ virago, sensor jammer & autothrusters = 37

Palob w/ blaster turret & moldy crow = 27

Kavil w/ autoblaster turret, unhinged & engine upgrade = 31

95 pts so far.

 

The last 5 points could be used in a number of ways, but I think the best options are:

(1) predator on Guri, Vet Instincts on Kavil & determination on Palob. 

(2) lone wolf on Guri.  Then your choice of predator/push the limit on Kavil OR recon spec on Palob.

 

Go with the first option if you want to keep the list easy to fly (just keep them all relatively close together when you deploy, leading with Guri).  If you take LW on Guri, then how you deploy depends largely on what enemy ships you are up against (because you can't always flank effectively with Guri at PS 5----you have to be careful she doesn't get isolated and shot to bits before your other ships can get into the fight).

 

Thanks for the feedback! Really appreciated. I like your suggestions, I think I would go for the Lone Wolf on Guri tough, but it would require some training to not get her isolated. But I think I can manage that. I would put Push The Limits on Kavil tough, either to boost into range one or focus/target lock to really make that auto blaster shot count.

 

 

I like this version:

 

100 points

 

PILOTS

Kavil (30)

Y-Wing (24), Blaster Turret (4), R4 Agromech (2)

Palob Godalhi (34)

HWK-290 (20), Opportunist (4), Blaster Turret (4), Recon Specialist (3), Moldy Crow (3)

Guri (36)

StarViper (30), Veteran Instincts (1), Virago (1), Autothrusters (2), Fire-Control System (2)

 

Do not underestimate Guri at PS7 over PS5. PS7 does plenty in this meta, out-pacing half the BroBot teams and giving you a chance to catch Super Dash, which could otherwise prove a nightmare. Guri is amazing, but BroBots and Dash both out-flying you can be brutal. Also, now you definitely get the drop on Chewy and Leebo, who might otherwise fly circles around you. With only 3 ships, you really need Guri to have an arc. He's your most expensive piece.  

 

Sensor Jammers on Guri along with Palob makes Guri REALLY hard to kill, but honestly, if they're prioritizing Guri over Palob, you're in a great situation to begin with. This list isn't made to survive (Palob is your toughest to pin down bump off, but having two ships with 4 red dice in a 360 arc gives you a really powerful opening salvo. Melt faces off. Win big. Party up.

 

If PS7 on your Guri makes you uncomfortable, Palob can go down to Predator, freeing up 1 more point to do the exact same thing with Xizor. Then, just stand Xizor near Kavil to give him a little extra lasting power at the start of the game, followed by trying to out-ace your enemies in the late game. I just don't much value PS9 over PS7, if you're going to have 0 points for the initiative bid. Other PS9s are likely to have outbid you, and Guri's ability is 1 point less, and much better with this squad.

 

Also very much appreciated feedback, thank you! I considered the PS 7 on Guri, but I was afraid to loose to much offense on her, I really like how you countered that with the Blaster Turrets on both Kavil and Palob. Those turrets should really bring the hurt. I am however a bit worried about facing a Panic Attack, or even just Carnor Jax. With most of my fire power coming from the Blaster Turrets, no focus could really spell doom quite quickly .

 

---

To both of you, how would you fly against a BBBBZ list? I don't feel the list has enough firepower to joust such a list, but also lacks the arc dodging ability to avoid getting shot to pieces :S. Where do I start against that?

 

 

How about a mix of the two?

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/265959/scum-tricks-c

Edited June 10, 2015 by Malc0r

[CBMarkham 2,441]

 

I think this is a solid place to start:

 

Guri w/ virago, sensor jammer & autothrusters = 37

Palob w/ blaster turret & moldy crow = 27

Kavil w/ autoblaster turret, unhinged & engine upgrade = 31

95 pts so far.

 

The last 5 points could be used in a number of ways, but I think the best options are:

(1) predator on Guri, Vet Instincts on Kavil & determination on Palob. 

(2) lone wolf on Guri.  Then your choice of predator/push the limit on Kavil OR recon spec on Palob.

 

Go with the first option if you want to keep the list easy to fly (just keep them all relatively close together when you deploy, leading with Guri).  If you take LW on Guri, then how you deploy depends largely on what enemy ships you are up against (because you can't always flank effectively with Guri at PS 5----you have to be careful she doesn't get isolated and shot to bits before your other ships can get into the fight).

 

Thanks for the feedback! Really appreciated. I like your suggestions, I think I would go for the Lone Wolf on Guri tough, but it would require some training to not get her isolated. But I think I can manage that. I would put Push The Limits on Kavil tough, either to boost into range one or focus/target lock to really make that auto blaster shot count.

 

I like this version:

 

100 points

 

PILOTS

Kavil (30)

Y-Wing (24), Blaster Turret (4), R4 Agromech (2)

Palob Godalhi (34)

HWK-290 (20), Opportunist (4), Blaster Turret (4), Recon Specialist (3), Moldy Crow (3)

Guri (36)

StarViper (30), Veteran Instincts (1), Virago (1), Autothrusters (2), Fire-Control System (2)

 

Do not underestimate Guri at PS7 over PS5. PS7 does plenty in this meta, out-pacing half the BroBot teams and giving you a chance to catch Super Dash, which could otherwise prove a nightmare. Guri is amazing, but BroBots and Dash both out-flying you can be brutal. Also, now you definitely get the drop on Chewy and Leebo, who might otherwise fly circles around you. With only 3 ships, you really need Guri to have an arc. He's your most expensive piece.  

 

Sensor Jammers on Guri along with Palob makes Guri REALLY hard to kill, but honestly, if they're prioritizing Guri over Palob, you're in a great situation to begin with. This list isn't made to survive (Palob is your toughest to pin down bump off, but having two ships with 4 red dice in a 360 arc gives you a really powerful opening salvo. Melt faces off. Win big. Party up.

 

If PS7 on your Guri makes you uncomfortable, Palob can go down to Predator, freeing up 1 more point to do the exact same thing with Xizor. Then, just stand Xizor near Kavil to give him a little extra lasting power at the start of the game, followed by trying to out-ace your enemies in the late game. I just don't much value PS9 over PS7, if you're going to have 0 points for the initiative bid. Other PS9s are likely to have outbid you, and Guri's ability is 1 point less, and much better with this squad.

 

Also very much appreciated feedback, thank you! I considered the PS 7 on Guri, but I was afraid to loose to much offense on her, I really like how you countered that with the Blaster Turrets on both Kavil and Palob. Those turrets should really bring the hurt. I am however a bit worried about facing a Panic Attack, or even just Carnor Jax. With most of my fire power coming from the Blaster Turrets, no focus could really spell doom quite quickly .

 

---

To both of you, how would you fly against a BBBBZ list? I don't feel the list has enough firepower to joust such a list, but also lacks the arc dodging ability to avoid getting shot to pieces :S. Where do I start against that?

 

 

Stress will be very bad for you, as will bumping. Kavil can somewhat mitigate bumping since Kavil shares a PS7 with Guri, allowing Guri to move in an unexpected way then Kavil to move into the spot Guri was occupying. Palob should be okay against stress if you can get 2 turns out Recon+Moldy Crow before combat starts, then you hold off on Opportunist when outside stress is a threat. Guri's offense is only slightly diminish with the switch from Predator to Fire Control Sys, but the added benefit of PS7 will shine through in lots of matches.

 

Carnor Jax is not really flown. You shouldn't see any, and if you do, it's a fluke. Just try to jam Guri down his throat and get lucky. BBBBZ is a rough match, but two of your ships don't respect firing arcs. Get Guri to do 1 or 2 damage in the opening salvo at R3 so his autothrusters protect him, then, fly your Y and HWK in unexpected ways so that it's harder for the Bs to get a bead on you. If you throw 11 red dice before the enemy can react, you should be able to pop one before they start returning fire. This will be a very difficult match for you, because if they bump Kavil, he's super out of luck. Kavil is VERY powerful, unless he gets bumped. Then he's very blank.

[Johdo 343]

I just ran something very similar to this.  It seemed to be ok, but i think it could use some tweaking...

 

Kavil /w Autoblaster Turret, Unhinged Astromech, VI, EU

N'Dru Suhlak /w Lone Wolf

Palob /w Opportunist, K4, Blaster Turret, Moldy Crow

Binayre Pirate /w Feedback Array

 

Kavil was a lot better than i thought he would be, but you suffer if you lose your actions.  Autoblaster demands up close, so losing actions is real easy. I took VI to help mitigate that.

Palob was the star!  He steals tokens, and more often than not was rolling 4 dice for Blaster Turret.

N'Dru wasn't bad, but is all or nothing.  Gotta keep them away from the pack to excel.

Binayre Pirate was mainly used as a blocker / fodder.  Feedback array can be used while bumped so it came in handy when i would otherwise have no shot.

 

 

I am considering taking out the Z-95's and adding in a Firespray...just haven't worked it out exactly.  Loving me some Scum so far.  I just may leave the Empire...

[Malc0r 8]

Thank again for the awesome feedback. I think you are both right on the money, this list seems to be very powerful in many situations but it will definitely come down to pilot skill. Choosing the right maneuvers and actions seem to be critical each turn.

 

I really like the idea of VI on Kavil, seems to allow me to get the best chance to avoid bumping.

 

I am not sure if I dare to fly Palob with opportunist, too afraid to get stressed and loose 4 points of upgrade, but I can see the effectiveness of it.

 

I think I am sold on VI on Guri as well. 

 

All your feedback has changed my list to the following:

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/265959/scum-tricks

 

I will try it out and return with some feedback myself. Hopefully I can learn to fly and tweak it before the championship .

[CBMarkham 2,441]

Thank again for the awesome feedback. I think you are both right on the money, this list seems to be very powerful in many situations but it will definitely come down to pilot skill. Choosing the right maneuvers and actions seem to be critical each turn.

 

I really like the idea of VI on Kavil, seems to allow me to get the best chance to avoid bumping.

 

I am not sure if I dare to fly Palob with opportunist, too afraid to get stressed and loose 4 points of upgrade, but I can see the effectiveness of it.

 

I think I am sold on VI on Guri as well. 

 

All your feedback has changed my list to the following:

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/265959/scum-tricks

 

I will try it out and return with some feedback myself. Hopefully I can learn to fly and tweak it before the championship .

 

Much as I love Opportunist on Palob, I wouldn't prioritize it over Recon Specialist if you're taking Moldy Crow. That combo is so good on Turn 1. Banking two actions before you get anywhere near combat is great. It can be 4 actions if you manage to stay out of the thick in round 2 as well, by slow rolling. That gives you a HUGE defensive advantage on the character who's likely to be targetted first. Then, if you find yourself with enough focus in the first rounds of combat (which you should) you manually target lock to be double modified.

 

This strategy also gives you 1 leftover point. You can use 1 of them on VI for Palob, which ain't nothin'. Sometimes +2PS makes a difference. I've absolutely been in games where firing before Chewbacca or a BroBot with Palob would have been a big deal. It's not every game, but it's the best use of a spare point there.

 

Well...actually it may also be a good idea to have a 1 point initiative bid, to give Kavil a better chance of catching PS9 arc dodgers. You'll need his help to nail Whisper and Soontir, so it's a little important that he move after them with the ability to boost. In fact, now that I think about it, the 1 point initiative bid will also help Guri to catch Dash. It's absolutely the right call.

Edited June 11, 2015 by CBMarkham

[Johdo 343]

Recon Spec /w Moldy Crow certainly allows for Focus token shenanigans...and given HWK's low health, you need all the help you can get.  For my list, i took Opportunist purely to see just how Offensive i could get.  While Palob did not disappoint, the HWK is easy to remove from the board when focused on.

YMMV when it comes to Opportunist over Recon Spec.  Although the Init bid does certainly have it's advantages.  Firing before (insert catchy names for squads here) has merit.

 

I may switch to Recon Spec myself, just because i always found myself wishing i had more focus tokens.  More focus over the course of the match may be better in the long run.  I am certainly going to leave Kavil alone for the time being and see how that fairs over a larger range of matches.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Johdo

[Rhoaran 183]

The posts here have great advice already and good build considerations. Just to throw other options out there what about this variant:

STAR VIPER: · Guri (30)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Autothrusters (2)

· Virago (1)

Fire Control System (2)

HWK-290: · Palob Godalhi (20)

Predator (3)

Blaster Turret (4)

Outlaw Tech (2)

· Moldy Crow (3)

Y-WING: · Kavil (24)

Predator (3)

Blaster Turret (4)

Unhinged Astromech (1)

The Guri build uses sound advice above.

The other ships introduce two tweaks to add maneuverability and dependablity.

1) Palob has outlaw tech. This opens up his poor dial and gives you options when opponent is in good position to block you. Predator makes sure you still modify attack while save any banked focus with Crow for defense. I know Recon helps you get ahead and bank a bunch but this build can survive in mid to late game better.

2) Kavil with Unhinged is nice. With all the stress mechanics it can really save you and allows him to move faster and less predictably to avoid blocks that shut him down. Predator is the alternate to A4.

---

Malc0r, I caution relying on unmodified attacks as your last build does for Palob and Kavil. Johdo offered good suggestion of taking Recon before opportunist.

Edited June 12, 2015 by Rhoaran

[Johdo 343]

I like the Outlaw Tech there.  Nice alternative.  Slow-rolling to build Focus, then in the scrum you'll be stealing and moving.  Tech ensures you still get your focus when you try to 'get away'.  Predator is just good.  If you are brave, you could switch it out for Lone Wolf to get the defensive bonus too.  I have no experience (yet) with the Starviper, but i'm eager to get some time in.  i was thinking of something like this if i can fit it in somewhere...

 

Guri /w Virago, Autothrusters, Advanced Sensors, Stay on Target

 

Maybe a little too defensive, but they don't have much health.  Was playing on the maneuverability to be the offensive tool here...

[blade_mercurial 2,091]

 

Guri /w Virago, Autothrusters, Advanced Sensors, Stay on Target

 

Stay on Target is not very good @ PS 5 (unless you have intelligence agent somewhere).  I think Lone Wolf is great on Guri, but predator is also quite good.  Push the Limit can also be useful if used sparingly (as a way to ensure range 1 focus + TL or for that clutch boost + barrel roll to escape firing arcs)

Edited June 12, 2015 by blade_mercurial

[Johdo 343]

 

 

Guri /w Virago, Autothrusters, Advanced Sensors, Stay on Target

 

Stay on Target is not very good @ PS 5 (unless you have intelligence agent somewhere).  I think Lone Wolf is great on Guri, but predator is also quite good.  Push the Limit can also be useful if used sparingly (as a way to ensure range 1 focus + TL or for that clutch boost + barrel roll to escape firing arcs)

 

 

Makes sense.  Never used SoT, so i am not sure how it exactly works, but it seems to be similar to Imp Boba ability.  in that case, yeah high PS would be better.

[Rhoaran 183]

I've only used Stay on Target a couple times.  In theory it can really save your butt when your opponent does something unexpected but in practice you the number of times that you actually make meaningful use of the talent seems minimal.  The same comment was made about Imp Boba - cool ability but situational. 

 

SoT can also only be triggered every other turn unless you have stress relief ability / support.  Furthermore, needing to clear stress from the red maneuver makes you as predictable the next turn as you were unpredictable when you could use SoT.

 

Where SoT can shine is in conjunction with other mechanics - Farlander is the best example.  I'd say that Fel could use it effectively though he couldn't turtle.

 

I like the card but I'll rarely pull it out.  It may be interesting with Hound's Tooth because you can take K4 and Outlaw to make your greens and reds trigger actions.

[Johdo 343]

Yeah, i guess with Advanced Sensors, SoT might be overkill.  In that case, a better EPT would be better points spent.

[Rhoaran 183]

Yeah, i guess with Advanced Sensors, SoT might be overkill.  In that case, a better EPT would be better points spent.

Sensors and SoT is nice combo for the turns you trigger it but when you need to clear stress you can't trigger either upgrade. It's deceptively inefficient.

[Rhoaran 183]

Sorry to double post but I had another interesting Palob build using Lone Wolf

HWK-290: · Palob Godalhi (20)

· Lone Wolf (2)

Blaster Turret (4)

Engine Upgrade (4)

Recon Specialist (3)

· Moldy Crow (3)

Inertial Dampeners (1)

Pros: modifies attack & defense, lone wolf pairs wonderfully with stored/stolen tokens. More maneuverable than other HWK builds.

Cons: No 4 dice attack. Can't use boost every turn when focus bank is low. 36-point build. Lone wolf restrictions. PS5 is low for loner.

Verdict: May be fun variant. Hard to bring down but expensive and demanding. I'll give it a whirl tomorrow.

[Bohun242 31]

Recon Spec /w Moldy Crow certainly allows for Focus token shenanigans...and given HWK's low health, you need all the help you can get.  For my list, i took Opportunist purely to see just how Offensive i could get.  While Palob did not disappoint, the HWK is easy to remove from the board when focused on.

YMMV when it comes to Opportunist over Recon Spec.  Although the Init bid does certainly have it's advantages.  Firing before (insert catchy names for squads here) has merit.

 

I may switch to Recon Spec myself, just because i always found myself wishing i had more focus tokens.  More focus over the course of the match may be better in the long run.  I am certainly going to leave Kavil alone for the time being and see how that fairs over a larger range of matches.

 

With Recon Spec, You might use the spare point for Calculation. More crits never hurts....

[blade_mercurial 2,091]

Sorry to double post but I had another interesting Palob build using Lone Wolf

HWK-290: · Palob Godalhi (20)

· Lone Wolf (2)

Blaster Turret (4)

Engine Upgrade (4)

Recon Specialist (3)

· Moldy Crow (3)

Inertial Dampeners (1)

Pros: modifies attack & defense, lone wolf pairs wonderfully with stored/stolen tokens. More maneuverable than other HWK builds.

Cons: No 4 dice attack. Can't use boost every turn when focus bank is low. 36-point build. Lone wolf restrictions. PS5 is low for loner.

Verdict: May be fun variant. Hard to bring down but expensive and demanding. I'll give it a whirl tomorrow.

I don't think you'll have to worry about the 'focus bank' getting low if you have recon spec.  I usually like LW on Guri or some other ship that makes a good closer----even with EU I'm not sure Palob can get the job done vs certain ships, but its not a bad idea.  Just have to find the right team to match it up with.

 

You could try 2 tansarii point vets w/ predator, title, HLC & hull upgrade.  They're 32 each so that's 100 pts with your Palob build (minus the inertial dampeners).

 

The nice thing about them is your opponent absolutely cannot ignore them since with predator, focus and the HLC, they do impressive damage against anything.  3 greens a shield and 3 hull is not terrible for health neither, and at PS5, all your ships move at the same time which can be handy.

Edited June 13, 2015 by blade_mercurial

[Malc0r 8]

Wow, thanks for all the great suggestions. I managed to play a few games during the weekend. Here are some short reports:

 

Round 1:

Kavil: Autoblaster Turret, Unhinged Astromech, Veteran Instincts, Engine Upgrade

Guri: Lone Wolf, Virago, Autothrusters, Fire-Control System

Palob: Blaster Turret, Recon Specialist, Moldy Crow

 

Opponent:

Fat Han with Anti-persuit lasers

Farlander with HLC, PTL

 

I really needed to learn to fly with these ships of mine. Hwk got removed WAY to fast, and as nice as the Autoblaster is on Kavil, getting to RNG 1 of a turret just got himself killed. Guri lived a bit longer and almost took the B-wing down by herself before Han caught up and shot her.

 

Round 2:

This was a short game and we set up quickly for round two. This time I decided to fly a bit different. Guri launched herself at Farlander to block and Kavil blocked Han, all while keeping Palob at range 2. The block worked perfectly. However, the next turn I was losing ground again. Kavil now got his 3 dice autoturret shot at Han, but died from focus fire (hot dice on my opponent, but still..). Guri did 3 dmg on Farlander and Palob 2. The next round Palob died and even though Guri took down Farlander, there was no change Guri could kill Han. Guri lived for about 5 or 6 rounds, doing 1 dmg but eventually Han got Guri in arc and she died.

 

Round 3:

I changed my list and switched opponent.

 

Kavil: Blaster Turret, Unhinged Astromech, Push the Limit

Guri: Lone Wolf, Virago, Autothrusters, Fire-Control System

Palob: Opportunist, Blaster Turret, Recon Specialist

 

Opponent:

Lando: Tactical Jammer, Millenium Falcon

Garven Dreis 

Dutch: Ion Cannon

 

I was flying a bit better and the double Blaster turret was really packing a punch, however I got Guri to close and my opponent flew well focusing Guri down at range one. The HWK died the turn after (darn that ship is hard to fly). Leaving me with Kavil vs Lando/Dutch. I surrendered and we set up again.

 

Round 4:

I managed to fly even better this round, keeping Guri at Lone Wolf distance and Kavil and Palob at RNG 2 of only one ship a time. I focus fired down Lando and without a turret that could kill me I was gaining ground. However, he managed to take down Palob (again!) and got an ion shot on Kavil, he kept ionizing Kavil and flew him of the board. However, it was too late. Guri took down Dreis with no problem and turned to Dutch. Staying at RNG 3 of Dutch, Guri had no problem taking him down. 

 

My first win!

 

Things learned:

- Guri is often the last one standing

- Palob dies FAST, his ability only works for 2 or maximum three rounds and he only gets to shoot once or twice...

- Pilot Skill is a thing. Often my ships die before I can return fire.

- Lone Wolf is hard to use in the start when I need it to focus down a target, works wonders in the end but then it is often too late

- Turrets at RNG 1 are a problem :S

 

I will now take a good look at my list and incorporate some more of your suggestions, I also got a few ideas myself.

 

Thanks for reading!

Edited June 15, 2015 by Malc0r

[Johdo 343]

 

 

- Turrets at RNG 1 are a problem :S

 

 

 

Normally this isn't a big deal as secondary weapons don't increase dice at range, however Han's 'turret' is a primary weapon so getting into R1 of Han (and any of the Decimators for that matter) hurts...

[blade_mercurial 2,091]

 

Wow, thanks for all the great suggestions. I managed to play a few games during the weekend. Here are some short reports:

 

Round 1:

Kavil: Autoblaster Turret, Unhinged Astromech, Veteran Instincts, Engine Upgrade

Guri: Lone Wolf, Virago, Autothrusters, Fire-Control System

Palob: Blaster Turret, Recon Specialist, Moldy Crow

 

Opponent:

Fat Han with Anti-persuit lasers

Farlander with HLC, PTL

 

I really needed to learn to fly with these ships of mine. Hwk got removed WAY to fast, and as nice as the Autoblaster is on Kavil, getting to RNG 1 of a turret just got himself killed. Guri lived a bit longer and almost took the B-wing down by herself before Han caught up and shot her.

 

Round 2:

This was a short game and we set up quickly for round two. This time I decided to fly a bit different. Guri launched herself at Farlander to block and Kavil blocked Han, all while keeping Palob at range 2. The block worked perfectly. However, the next turn I was losing ground again. Kavil now got his 3 dice autoturret shot at Han, but died from focus fire (hot dice on my opponent, but still..). Guri did 3 dmg on Farlander and Palob 2. The next round Palob died and even though Guri took down Farlander, there was no change Guri could kill Han. Guri lived for about 5 or 6 rounds, doing 1 dmg but eventually Han got Guri in arc and she died.

 

Round 3:

I changed my list and switched opponent.

 

Kavil: Blaster Turret, Unhinged Astromech, Push the Limit

Guri: Lone Wolf, Virago, Autothrusters, Fire-Control System

Palob: Opportunist, Blaster Turret, Recon Specialist

 

Opponent:

Lando: Tactical Jammer, Millenium Falcon

Garven Dreis 

Dutch: Ion Cannon

 

I was flying a bit better and the double Blaster turret was really packing a punch, however I got Guri to close and my opponent flew well focusing Guri down at range one. The HWK died the turn after (darn that ship is hard to fly). Leaving me with Kavil vs Lando/Dutch. I surrendered and we set up again.

 

Round 4:

I managed to fly even better this round, keeping Guri at Lone Wolf distance and Kavil and Palob at RNG 2 of only one ship a time. I focus fired down Lando and without a turret that could kill me I was gaining ground. However, he managed to take down Palob (again!) and got an ion shot on Kavil, he kept ionizing Kavil and flew him of the board. However, it was too late. Guri took down Dreis with no problem and turned to Dutch. Staying at RNG 3 of Dutch, Guri had no problem taking him down. 

 

My first win!

 

Things learned:

- Guri is often the last one standing

- Palob dies FAST, his ability only works for 2 or maximum three rounds and he only gets to shoot once or twice...

- Pilot Skill is a thing. Often my ships die before I can return fire.

- Lone Wolf is hard to use in the start when I need it to focus down a target, works wonders in the end but then it is often too late

- Turrets at RNG 1 are a problem :S

 

I will now take a good look at my list and incorporate some more of your suggestions, I also got a few ideas myself.

 

Thanks for reading!

 

Well don't feel too disheartened----you are flying a list that has a steep learning curve.  Range is extremely important and knowing when to be at what range vs which enemy ship type is critical to success.  I'll comment on a few things:

 

Palob: yes he will die fast as most opponents find him extremely annoying/threatening.  That's okay though.  You have to use it to your advantage by getting good damage in with your other ships.  I also found Kavil not the best partner with Palob because he often loses a turn of shooting getting in close, whereas having a long-range shooter would be more helpful in supporting Palob.  Engine Upgrade can help keep him alive (because it gives you a bit more range control), but ultimately, he will almost always die first in this type of list.

 

Guri: if you give her Sensor Jammer she is VERY durable.  You want to be careful early on because you don't want to lose her, but if she makes it into a 1vs1 situation, she can finish the job against any ship, even fat turrets.  Sensor Jammer makes all the difference because fat turrets typically don't like taking focus as their action (Dash w/ Kyle & certain builds based around recon spec being the exceptions).  Even Chiraneau can be dealt with as long as you stay at range 3 as much as possible because he doesn't want to have to focus neither.  However, she requires very careful flying----you can't fly her aggressively into range 1 of everything just because she gets an extra focus token (too many shots on her and she will die). 

 

I've seen Kinetic Operator fly this list on VASSAL:

 

Syndicate thug w/ Ion turret & BTL title = 23

Palob w/ opportunist, blaster, K4 droid, moldy crow & engine upgrade = 38

Guri w/ lone wolf, virago, sensor jammer, autothrusters = 39

100

 

The syndicate deals decent damage and is not easy to destroy and the ion + palob's engine help keep him alive maybe a little longer.

 

I've also considered the same list dropping the thug for a Cartel Spacer w/ heavy scyk + Heavy Laser Cannon.  Adds some nice R3 punch that the list otherwise lacks, but you give up a lot of durability for it...

 

While you don't want to needlessly sacrifice any of your ships, at the end of the day, you just need Guri to survive and have your other ships deal enough damage before they go poof so that she can easily clean up whatever is left...

[Malc0r 8]

Thanks for the input. I am not sure I think I want to poor that many points into Palob though... No matter what, he will always die if the opponent focuses him I think.

 

I did consider switching Kavil to a BTL Thug, but I like flying those in pairs, which would alter the list too far from the initial intend.

 

I came up with this to try during my next game night:

 

Kavil: Blaster Turret, R4 Agromech

Guri: Lone Wolf, Advanced Proton Torpedoes, Virago, Autothrusters, Advanced Sensors

Torkhil Mux: Blaster Turret, Recon Specialist

 

The idea is to turn one ship to PS 0 and burn it down. Instead of trying to up my PS across my ships with VI.

In order to push trough I need the two blaster turrets, and I added APT on Guri to really make a good dent at range 1. Hopefully killing the target before it returns fire.

 

This will require a bit more close flying, thus making it harder for Lone Wolf to trigger, wish I could switch this to Predator.

Kavil will just have to do with the R4 Agromech, since he doesn't need to be that maneuverable anymore. 

 

I'll let you guys know how it went soon

Edited June 16, 2015 by Malc0r

[Malc0r 8]

So I played some more games. Against the same opponent with the same list:

Lando: Tactical Jammer, Millenium Falcon

Garven Dreis 

Dutch: Ion Cannon

 

First game I flew:

Kavil: Blaster Turret, R4 Agromech

Guri: Lone Wolf, Advanced Proton Torpedoes, Virago, Autothrusters, Advanced Sensors

Torkhil Mux: Blaster Turret, Moldy Crow

 

I tried too hard to get the Advanded Proton Torpedoes to do work, putting myself in a bad position doing so. Lost the game with Garven and Dreis still standing. Torkhil performed ok, but I felt like I lost the original idea of the list, aka: Scum Tricks. It was way more a; point all guns in the same direction and kill. Rince and repeat. Guri was (again) a beast, and I am getting much better at flying her, however. The Adv. Proton Torpedoes and Torkhil's ability made it hard to get much out of Lone Wolf. Lost the game after getting cornered at range 1.

 

Second game:

I changed the list a bit, putting Palob back in:

 

Kavil: Blaster Turret, R4 Agromech, Veteran Instincts

Guri: Lone Wolf, Virago, Autothrusters, Advanced Sensors

Palob: Opportunist, Blaster Turret, Moldy Crow

 

I lost Palob on the alpha strike, and even though my opponent shoots at range 3 against my stack of focus tokens. All his ships fire with both Target Lock and Focus, with some good dice he took down Palob before he even mattered...

 

However, Kavil and Guri manned up and took down Lando, eventually leaving Guri to face a near death Garven Dreis and Dutch, with Lone Wolf and advanced sensors she had no problem taking them down. Win for me.

 

Third game:

Because of the failure of Palob I changed some minor things:

 

Kavil: Blaster Turret, R4 Agromech, Veteran Instincts

Guri: Lone Wolf, Virago, Autothrusters, Advanced Sensors, Inertial Dampeners

Palob: Blaster Turret, Recon Specialist, Moldy Crow

 

Again did Palob get shot, but this time I managed to survive a tiny bit longer. Doing enough damage to take down Dutch together with Kavil. However, I was quickly left with Guri facing Lando and a near death Garven. After one hour of playing, Lando was still standing with 4 hull, facing a full health Guri (Lando just cant hit her). Was this a tournament I would have lost the match, but playing on for 10 more minutes allowed me to take down Lando.

 

 

Conclusion:

I really like the last iteration of the list. It is important that I target prioritize properly during a tournament or I will loose on MOV. However, Lone Wolf and Adv. Sensors on Guri is REALLY really good. The inertial dampeners is a good trick to have up my sleeve forcing my opponent to reconsider his actions. Kavil is a real workhorse, it is very easy to get a 4 dice target locked shot against an opponent. Palob is better then I give him credit for I think, his usefullness is sorta removed against this particular opponent, with all the extra actions. But against an Fat Chewie or Han or tokened up Soontir / Whisper he might prove more usefull. I do need to learn to fly him a bit better though...

I might consider moving the Veteran Instincts to Palob, allowing me to have 2 ships that fire before IG88's or Chewie. I think this will help more than PS 9 on Kavil, since I will most likely never have initiative against Soontir or Whisper anyway.

 

So far I am 3-4 in an untimed environment. I could use some different opponents though, but I can feel the progress. Getting more use out of my ships every time I play.

Edited June 18, 2015 by Malc0r

[Johdo 343]

Guri is getting a lot of love in this thread.  I may need to swap out my 2 Z-95's for Guri and give that a go.

 

Good stuff.  keep flying and keep reporting!