Keywords on "added" cards

[Crabble 51]

So I have a rule question about resolving keywords such as "Doomed" or "Surge" on cards that where ADDED to the staging area (by other card effects).

 

The rule book says that you have to resolve keywords when an encounter card is REVEALED from or by the encounter deck, but what happens to those keywords if I add for example an enemy with surge out of the discard pile into the staging area?

Does Surge trigger? It's not part of a "When revealed" effect but still such an enemy would not be added not revealed so according to the rule book keywords like surge or doomed should not trigger in my opinion.

[Ecthelion III 382]

I 100% agree.

[Teamjimby 630]

Correct.  Surge and doomed only trigger if a card is revealed. 

[PocketWraith 553]

Yeah, that's why when effects cause you to search the encounter deck for something and add it to the staging area I tend to look for ones with keywords or when revealed effects, because that way I avoid said effects.

 

However, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Guarded keyword is an exception to this and will always go off any time the card enters play?

[Ecthelion III 382]

Guarded is triggered when the card "enters the staging area from the encounter deck". (Core rulebook, page 24)

[GrandSpleen 1,756]

And many of the little adventure packs have keywords that only occur in that particular adventure pack.  Some trigger when they get added to the staging area, some trigger when the card is revealed... so gotta read that rules insert!

[chuckles 89]

And many of the little adventure packs have keywords that only occur in that particular adventure pack.  Some trigger when they get added to the staging area, some trigger when the card is revealed... so gotta read that rules insert!

 

I wish that FFG would release a PDF rule book with all FAQ changes and all the insert rules in it. (guess I just need a better filling system)

Edited June 9, 2015 by chuckles

[GrandSpleen 1,756]

They release digital versions of all of their rules inserts, on the support section of this website, but still there is a lot of paper (or files) at this point to keep track of.

[chuckles 89]

They release digital versions of all of their rules inserts, on the support section of this website, but still there is a lot of paper (or files) at this point to keep track of.

 

Yes, this is true... but you have to open each individual one and search until you find the the reference you were looking for, if you are playing outside of the cycle it first showed up in.. as once a new keyword is defined it can show up in subsequent quests/cycles... and if I don't remember which set the new rule/keyword first appeared in it can be rather annoying.

 

So if FFG were to create a single file that I could search for everything only once, I would be very happy!

Edited June 9, 2015 by chuckles

[Teamjimby 630]

You guys should check out the LotR LCG Quest Companion.  It has all of the rules inserts and keywords in one easily accessible website.  It seems to have some "rulings" posted as well, but the FAQ is probably a better resource for rules questions.

[chuckles 89]

Thanks Teamjimby 

[CJMatos 54]

You guys should check out the LotR LCG Quest Companion.  It has all of the rules inserts and keywords in one easily accessible website.  It seems to have some "rulings" posted as well, but the FAQ is probably a better resource for rules questions.

 

 

As they say in there it is updated to the FAQ 1.6, so should have all rulling included in there

[PocketWraith 553]

They release digital versions of all of their rules inserts, on the support section of this website, but still there is a lot of paper (or files) at this point to keep track of.

 

Yes, this is true... but you have to open each individual one and search until you find the the reference you were looking for, if you are playing outside of the cycle it first showed up in.. as once a new keyword is defined it can show up in subsequent quests/cycles... and if I don't remember which set the new rule/keyword first appeared in it can be rather annoying.

Um, I'm pretty sure this isn't true - keywords used in any given quest are defined either in the rulesheet for that quest or the rulesheet for the deluxe expansion for that cycle - thus ensuring that you can't have a card which has a keyword on it without also having the definition of that keyword. There aren't many keywords which have appeared in more than one quest cycle anyway.

[ricedwlit 209]

Guarded is triggered when the card "enters the staging area from the encounter deck". (Core rulebook, page 24)

This has been clarified in the FAQ to only cover the case where it is "revealed" and not just "added":

 

(1.01) Encounter Keywords

Surge, Doomed and Guarded keywords should be resoled any time the card on which they occur is revealed from the encounter deck, including during setup. 

 

One example in which this matters is the Forest Grove location from A Journey to Rhosgebol which states

"Response: After the players explore Forest Grove, search the encounter deck and discard pile for 1 Athelas objective, and add it to the staging area. Then, shuffle the encounter deck."

 

In a case such as this you don't trigger the Guarded keyword on the Athelas. 

[GrandSpleen 1,756]

Sometimes, PocketWraith, you do have to go and search.  'Last player,' for example, is defined in the Khazad-dum insert, but not in any of the Dwarrowdelf AP rules inserts... and some of those scenarios continue to use 'last player' on encounter cards.  I always end up having to go back and look, because there is 'next player' and there is 'last player,' and in a solo game, one of them applies and one of them doesn't... I can never remember which.

[PsychoRocka 1,189]

Yeah, that's why when effects cause you to search the encounter deck for something and add it to the staging area I tend to look for ones with keywords or when revealed effects, because that way I avoid said effects.

 

However, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Guarded keyword is an exception to this and will always go off any time the card enters play?

I remember the first time someone ever suggested these sort of tactics to me which was against the stewards fear and the treachery card Lost in the City when I was fairly new to the game (or whatever the one that makes you add two locations to staging is called). They suggested simply adding two copies of City Streets to avoid the nasty surge effect triggering later. As well as this city street has low threat and low questing points (Asfaloth can clear a copy in one go). I thought this was ingenious using the encounter deck's treacheries to actually prevent nasty effects from happening later in the game as well as minimising the harm of the treachery.

Since then I am always looking for ways to exploit this tactic during games and pretty much any time I have to search the encounter deck/discard for enemies or locations and add them to staging I am looking for the cards with surge or nasty when revealed effects. 

[PsychoRocka 1,189]

Sometimes, PocketWraith, you do have to go and search.  'Last player,' for example, is defined in the Khazad-dum insert, but not in any of the Dwarrowdelf AP rules inserts... and some of those scenarios continue to use 'last player' on encounter cards.  I always end up having to go back and look, because there is 'next player' and there is 'last player,' and in a solo game, one of them applies and one of them doesn't... I can never remember which.

I am assuming that next player does not have any effect in Solo play because there is no next player whereas in solo you are both the first and last player so last player would still have effect? I do not play Solo and am just curious =) 

[GrandSpleen 1,756]

yeah, I'm pretty sure that's it

[PocketWraith 553]

Sometimes, PocketWraith, you do have to go and search.  'Last player,' for example, is defined in the Khazad-dum insert, but not in any of the Dwarrowdelf AP rules inserts... and some of those scenarios continue to use 'last player' on encounter cards.

Which is exactly in line with what I said:

 

keywords used in any given quest are defined either in the rulesheet for that quest or the rulesheet for the deluxe expansion for that cycle

[GrandSpleen 1,756]

my bad

[chuckles 89]

 

They release digital versions of all of their rules inserts, on the support section of this website, but still there is a lot of paper (or files) at this point to keep track of.

 

Yes, this is true... but you have to open each individual one and search until you find the the reference you were looking for, if you are playing outside of the cycle it first showed up in.. as once a new keyword is defined it can show up in subsequent quests/cycles... and if I don't remember which set the new rule/keyword first appeared in it can be rather annoying.

Um, I'm pretty sure this isn't true - keywords used in any given quest are defined either in the rulesheet for that quest or the rulesheet for the deluxe expansion for that cycle - thus ensuring that you can't have a card which has a keyword on it without also having the definition of that keyword. There aren't many keywords which have appeared in more than one quest cycle anyway.

 

 

okay cool. - I wasn't sure that this was always the case... but happy to be proven wrong, especially as it limits searching. 

 

I would still like a single online FFG maintained document which I could search for all rules/faq

[alogos 171]

I always end up having to go back and look, because there is 'next player' and there is 'last player,' and in a solo game, one of them applies and one of them doesn't... I can never remember which.

 

Think of it like a list.

[player one].first() return player one

[player one].last() return player one

[player one].next() return null

[GrandSpleen 1,756]

Robot-speak!

[Ecthelion III 382]

 

I always end up having to go back and look, because there is 'next player' and there is 'last player,' and in a solo game, one of them applies and one of them doesn't... I can never remember which.

 

Think of it like a list.

[player one].first() return player one

[player one].last() return player one

[player one].next() return null

 

You are my favorite person ever.