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2P51

Canon update

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I am pretty sure the script of Indiana Jones didn't call for him to shoot the guy with the swords, but it was in the take that made it to the theaters.

 

I am not sure a "script" especially a 4th draft is any more definitive than "my mother's friend's sister's boyfriend says..."

 

Script + whatever allowed Improv + Editing = final release

 

On a side note, I think that same script draft was featured last week on Pawn Stars. That dude's version was signed by George back in the 70s.

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Well I remember what was on the screen in the movee thee-ater in 1977, and Han clearly blow torched straw mouth first.  

 

Lucas then added the 1990's poopiness completely oblivious to the genius of the original scene and it's Clint Eastwood-esque perfection.  It was an omen of ill times to come.....

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I am pretty sure the script of Indiana Jones didn't call for him to shoot the guy with the swords, but it was in the take that made it to the theaters.

 

That bit was improvised on the day because Ford was sick and didn't want to do the planned fight.

 

As far as Han/Greedo goes, if Lucas wanted to have Greedo shoot first in '77, he could have done so.

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Well I remember what was on the screen in the movee thee-ater in 1977, and Han clearly blow torched straw mouth first.  

 

Lucas then added the 1990's poopiness completely oblivious to the genius of the original scene and it's Clint Eastwood-esque perfection.  It was an omen of ill times to come.....

The scary thing is it shows a complete inability to comprehend the characters progression.

 

Han started as a total merc scumbag, only marginally better then Greedo, but in the end, he comes around, and decides there might be a little more to life then money and chicks.

 

Having Han shoot in self defense to ensure he's identifiable as a "Good guy" early eliminates that progression and just makes Han seem like a wanker who can't make up his mind about anything.

 

It's kinda sad, but the Han shooting last alteration actually was the first indicator that TPM might not be so amazing. George was rewriting the story so he wouldn't have to feel weird about Jet running around the backyard with a toy blaster and the dog. Jar Jar was kinda to be expected after that....

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To be 100% fair, the only "canon" is what George wanted, and the Special Edition is literally what he wanted. So it doesn't matter if from a literary perspective it was stupid to make the update (it was stupid) it was changed and therefore is canon.

 

There is zero that can be dug up, dredged, or found in a time capsule that can change that except if it comes from Disney.

 

It is nice to see old scripts being found though. 

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Well I remember what was on the screen in the movee thee-ater in 1977, and Han clearly blow torched straw mouth first.  

 

Lucas then added the 1990's poopiness completely oblivious to the genius of the original scene and it's Clint Eastwood-esque perfection.  It was an omen of ill times to come.....

The scary thing is it shows a complete inability to comprehend the characters progression.

 

Han started as a total merc scumbag, only marginally better then Greedo, but in the end, he comes around, and decides there might be a little more to life then money and chicks.

 

Having Han shoot in self defense to ensure he's identifiable as a "Good guy" early eliminates that progression and just makes Han seem like a wanker who can't make up his mind about anything.

 

It's kinda sad, but the Han shooting last alteration actually was the first indicator that TPM might not be so amazing. George was rewriting the story so he wouldn't have to feel weird about Jet running around the backyard with a toy blaster and the dog. Jar Jar was kinda to be expected after that....

 

Well, Disney does have Han Solo in the new movies and Abrams joked about Gungan bones in the desert. Both positive signs...

Edited by 2P51

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It is amazing, Lucas' inability to understand his own material.  It's almost as if he has selective memory.  And shooting someone who has a gun drawn on you and says that it's "too late" to pay off his debts is hardly the act of a "non-good" character.  If I lived in the wild west in the sky and someone did that to me, it wouldn't bother me in the least to shoot first, my conscience would be clear.

 

EDIT:  Realized this might not make sense to those who don't know that Lucas made the change originally because he thought a good character wouldn't shoot first.

Edited by Teelk

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Also, weird, I have a copy of this same script I bought from a street vendor in NYC about 15-20 years ago. Here's the scene in question:

As Han and Cheebacca slide out of the booth, a slimy purple faced alien with a short nose pokes a gun in Han's side. He speaks with an electronically translated voice.

ALIEN

Going somewhere, Solo?

HAN

As a matter of fact, I was just going to see your boss. Tell

Jabba I have his money.

ALIEN

That's what you said yesterday, but it's too late ... I'm

Not going to Jabba with another one of your stories.

HAN

But I've got th money this time!

ALIEN

Then I'll take it now.

Han sits down and the alien sits across from him holding the gun on him.

HAN

I haven't got it here with me. Tell Jabba...

ALIEN

It's too late I think. Jabba would rather have your ship.

HAN

Over my dead body.

ALIEN

That's the idea, Solo. You will come outside with me or must I finish it here?

HAN

I don't think they'd like another killing in here.

ALIEN

They'd hardly notice ...get up. I've been looking forward to this for a long time ...

HAN

I bet you have ...

Suddenly the slimy alien disappears in a blinding flash of light. Han pulls his smoking gun from beneath the table as the other patrons look on in bemused amazement.

HAN

... But it will take a lot more than the likes of you to finish me off ...

Han gets up and starts out of the cantina, flipping the bartender some coins as he leaves.

HAN

Sorry for the mess ...

It's really weird that a script I bought off some dude on the street years ago is now newsworthy. Is this what it's like to be getting old?

Edit: here's a pic of the front page with the date. http://imgur.com/gowxFxE

Edited by Nimsim

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I remember the old, battered and abused VHS I watched growing up: Han shot first. And last. 

I seem to remember the 1997 special edition making their shots practically simultaneously - although it seems that Greedo shot first, according to Wikipedia. 

Edited by Vigil

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There's no "controversy" here. In the original cut (I still have the old original VHS-releases) Han fires the only shot, killing Greedo. It's completely obvious to anyone who sees the film.

 

Although Lucas gets a lot of heat for something that wasn't his idea, namely to have Greedo shoot first. The 1997 re-release was ready for release when the US ratings agency told Lucasfilm flat out that if they left the scene the way it was in the original they'd get a PG-13 rating instead of the Universal rating the movie had. This was due to the ratings rules having changed in the 20 years since the original was released. Lucasfilm had to chose between accepting the PG-13 rating and closing off the Star Wars movies to kids, or make the alteration and keep the Universal rating. They went for the latter, and there was a great disturbance in the Force, "as if millions of voices cried out in b*tthurt".

Edited by Krieger22

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i wonder why he said:

 

"The controversy over who shot first, Greedo or Han Solo, in Episode IV, what I did was try to clean up the confusion, but obviously it upset people because they wanted Solo [who seemed to be the one who shot first in the original] to be a cold-blooded killer, but he actually isn’t. It had been done in all close-ups and it was confusing about who did what to whom. I put a little wider shot in there that made it clear that Greedo is the one who shot first, but everyone wanted to think that Han shot first, because they wanted to think that he actually just gunned him down."  http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/george-lucas-star-wars-interview-288523

 

instead of:

 

"we had to change it because of a rating thingy, ok?".

 

that might have eased the hurt a bit. ;)

 

who shot first, the ratings agency or lucas? will we ever know? will we care?

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There's no "controversy" here. In the original cut (I still have the old original VHS-releases) Han fires the only shot, killing Greedo. It's completely obvious to anyone who sees the film.

 

Although Lucas gets a lot of heat for something that wasn't his idea, namely to have Greedo shoot first. The 1997 re-release was ready for release when the US ratings agency told Lucasfilm flat out that if they left the scene the way it was in the original they'd get a PG-13 rating instead of the Universal rating the movie had. This was due to the ratings rules having changed in the 20 years since the original was released. Lucasfilm had to chose between accepting the PG-13 rating and closing off the Star Wars movies to kids, or make the alteration and keep the Universal rating. They went for the latter, and there was a great disturbance in the Force, "as if millions of voices cried out in b*tthurt".

I'd like to point out that PG-13 does little to nothing to stop kids from seeing it.  As for the scene in question, I maintain that Han shot first, no debate needed.

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Although Lucas gets a lot of heat for something that wasn't his idea, namely to have Greedo shoot first. The 1997 re-release was ready for release when the US ratings agency told Lucasfilm flat out that if they left the scene the way it was in the original they'd get a PG-13 rating instead of the Universal rating the movie had. This was due to the ratings rules having changed in the 20 years since the original was released. Lucasfilm had to chose between accepting the PG-13 rating and closing off the Star Wars movies to kids, or make the alteration and keep the Universal rating. They went for the latter, and there was a great disturbance in the Force, "as if millions of voices cried out in b*tthurt".

 

Gonna need a source for that.

 

And yeah, that Lucas quote above is baloney... more revisionist history.

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Last word from Lucas (I can find) on the subject of why he changed it:

 

 

Well, it’s not a religious event. I hate to tell people that. It’s a movie, just a movie. The controversy over who shot first, Greedo or Han Solo, in Episode IV, what I did was try to clean up the confusion, but obviously it upset people because they wanted Solo [who seemed to be the one who shot first in the original] to be a cold-blooded killer, but he actually isn’t. It had been done in all close-ups and it was confusing about who did what to whom. I put a little wider shot in there that made it clear that Greedo is the one who shot first, but everyone wanted to think that Han shot first, because they wanted to think that he actually just gunned him down.

 

Doesn't mean that PG/PG-13 ratings might not be an influence, but as Lucas explains it, it's just him fiddling it because he wants to.

 

Also important to note, the only reason the film would have to be re-rated is because of it being changed for the various Special Editions. Disney could drop the theatrical version version right now without needing to re-rate it, and it'd still be PG.

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i wonder why he said:

 

"The controversy over who shot first, Greedo or Han Solo, in Episode IV, what I did was try to clean up the confusion, but obviously it upset people because they wanted Solo [who seemed to be the one who shot first in the original] to be a cold-blooded killer, but he actually isn’t. It had been done in all close-ups and it was confusing about who did what to whom. I put a little wider shot in there that made it clear that Greedo is the one who shot first, but everyone wanted to think that Han shot first, because they wanted to think that he actually just gunned him down."  http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/george-lucas-star-wars-interview-288523

 

instead of:

 

"we had to change it because of a rating thingy, ok?".

 

that might have eased the hurt a bit. ;)

 

who shot first, the ratings agency or lucas? will we ever know? will we care?

 

And how is shooting someone who has made it clear they are planning to kill you and has a gun pointed at you any form of murder?

 

For that matter why would Han shooting first affect the rating?

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i wonder why he said:

 

"The controversy over who shot first, Greedo or Han Solo, in Episode IV, what I did was try to clean up the confusion, but obviously it upset people because they wanted Solo [who seemed to be the one who shot first in the original] to be a cold-blooded killer, but he actually isn’t. It had been done in all close-ups and it was confusing about who did what to whom. I put a little wider shot in there that made it clear that Greedo is the one who shot first, but everyone wanted to think that Han shot first, because they wanted to think that he actually just gunned him down."  http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/george-lucas-star-wars-interview-288523

 

instead of:

 

"we had to change it because of a rating thingy, ok?".

 

that might have eased the hurt a bit. ;)

 

who shot first, the ratings agency or lucas? will we ever know? will we care?

 

And how is shooting someone who has made it clear they are planning to kill you and has a gun pointed at you any form of murder?

 

For that matter why would Han shooting first affect the rating?

 

 

this may shock you, but i am not george lucas. ;)

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