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HappyDaze

Are there female members of the A. Ministorum outside of the A. Sororitas?

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Like the title says. I have never seen an image of a female priest/confessor/deacon nor read about them existing in any of the novels or other books, so I was wondering if all female members of the A. Ministorum are more precisely members of the A. Sororitas.

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Nothing says there aren't, so given the very loose definition of canon, there probably are. The cliche is "crazy hobo priest with chainsaw", though, which is easier to depict as male, because the massive beard is part of that cliche. Just because an artist doesn't draw it, though, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. 

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I agree that they have never specifically said that there are no female Priests. However, they have shown (in art or text) female arbitrators, assassins, tech-priests, commissars, IG & IN officers, psykers, and pretty much everything except Space Marines and Priests. I haven't checked the book that mentions the two female missionaries, but from everything that i have viewed and/or read, every female member of the Ecclesiarchy has been a member of A. Sororitas.

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I assume that similar to the representation of genders, skin colours and other biological cues in the Imperial Guard it would depend on the individual planet. Some worlds may be culturally sexists towards one gender or the other, and the Ecclesiarchy tends to slightly adapt its teachings to each locality to better "infiltrate" religious beliefs and make them their own, easing the people's transition into the flock of the One True Faith.

 

I'm not aware of any source mentioning or even hinting at gender limitations to the clergy, but the above can easily be used as an in-universe justification for the known issue of fiction writers and artists focusing on white males out of simple subconscious homophily.

 

However, they have shown (in art or text) female arbitrators, assassins, tech-priests, commissars, IG & IN officers, psykers, and pretty much everything except Space Marines and Priests.

 

Depends on where you look, actually. Black Industries and FFG seem to go out of their way to show greater inclusiveness (though some of the artworks are questionable), but Games Workshop - and with it most of 40k art - is very much focused on "standard templates". This includes Assassins, if we keep in mind that they are further categorised into different temples: has anyone ever seen a male Callidus or a female Vindicare?

 

From what I understand there are female members of the Ministorum and there are male members of the Adeptus Sororitas (excluding battle sisters)

 

This seems to come down to differing sources as well, then. GW material specifically points out that the Adepta Sororitas is an all-female organisation, but I would not be surprised if this is contradicted in "outsourced" material such as the novels. Similar to how the Schola Progenium is said to be gender-segregated in the codices, but sees girls and boys mingling in other sources.

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Here's the thing, many of the high recruiting offices in both the adeptus terra and adeptus ministorum pull candidates out of the schola progenia. since the progenia is run by the ministorum, I believe the ministorum would have first crack at the best men and women for their organization. However, due to whatever the mandate was that banned "men" from joining the ministorum military, I imagine that the ministorum recruits as many sororitas as possible out of the progenia, probably leading to reduced amounts of women in other backgrounds in the warhammer universe outside of the guard and underworlders. This said, the ministorum embeds the sororitas in nearly every major imperial structure at some level or another so aside from battle sisters, every sororitas is as much a sage, doctor, bureaucrat, or politician as those they work around.

 

Also, there are no men in the sororitas, but the sororitas is a (very large) branch of the ministorum, which certainly has a lot of men in it.

Edited by BillMcDonagh

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It's an interesting point to make, as a person's spirituality would be an important qualifier for service in both the clergy as well as the Sisterhood, especially as the latter are looking for a wide number of skills for its non-militant branches, increasing the potential usefulness of recruits. It could, however, require the Adepta Sororitas to be much larger than it is made out to be in the original material.

 

Also, the Schola Progenium is only one possible origin of a cleric - certainly, many preachers are inducted locally by their region's diocese and thus outside the Sororitas "hunting grounds" for new novices? As a bonus, this ensures the new member of the clergy is already familiar with local rites and traditions, rather than having to experience a "culture shock" the likes of which the more uniformly indoctrinated Schola students have to undergo when being dumped on a world whose religious teachings differ notably from Ophelian doctrine.

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It's what everyone else said. There's no restrictions on it in story. Just the first idea that comes to most of the artists and writers, for a few reasons, is men. Whether it's because they're used to real life clergy being men in their lives, or they like the visual image, or the first thought that jumps to man is a guy because they are a guy. Which I get, people don't actively think about that. I just presume that unless there's an explicit meaningful restriction(ie Space Marines) that there are few universal restrictions. Certain planets might have their own quirks as they are like to do in 40k under ethnic, gender, political, philosophical, or anything else you can possibly think of. The local holy folk will legitimize this for the most part, long as it doesn't get in the way or rub the wrong bishop the wrong way("These savages must be put in their place, warrrrrrrrrrrrrr!"). But in general, I assume anyone could be anywhere.

 

There's female members of the Church. They never say there aren't, considering other general facets of the IoM. Having females serve in the IG and Navy in every role, serving as Inquisitors, and so on. I don't see why they wouldn't as a rule. Whether it's half crazed confessors burning and smiting all of the unworthy from the underhive to the Governor's Palace or a centuries old decrepit and corrupt Arch Bishop who is at this point almost totally non functional at her duties but is still held in high esteem by her peers. In the FFG materials they make occasional reference to them.

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This includes Assassins, if we keep in mind that they are further categorised into different temples: has anyone ever seen a male Callidus or a female Vindicare?

 

The Jaq Draco series book Harlequin had a male callidus assassin encountered (and killed) by Draco's companion, I think.

 

The Director Secundus, Tariq Ziz, was also male, but it's not made clear if he's a functional callidus (i.e. able to use polymorphine) or simply the guy who ran the temple.

 

We've seen both male and female Culexus assassins.

 

They never say there aren't, considering other general facets of the IoM. Having females serve in the IG and Navy in every role, serving as Inquisitors, and so on. I don't see why they wouldn't as a rule.

 

 

Indeed. The Imperium in the novels and sourcebooks seems to manage not to be too sexist (compared to the Medieval archetype it's built off, anyway), probably because being speciesist is so much more fun.

 

One thing I like about the Horus Heresy novels is that they pointedly have made a lot of the senior navy captains female - on the grounds that (in the 31st millenium, anyway), the top 1% of war college and naval academy graduates are going to be majority female, because a substantial proportion of males who would have been part of that mix end up getting creamed off earlier on by the legions.

Edited by Magnus Grendel

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The Imperium in the novels and sourcebooks seems to manage not to be too sexist (compared to the Medieval archetype it's built off, anyway), probably because being speciesist is so much more fun.

 

Yep. I think the assumption of sexism stems chiefly from artists and authors forgetting that women exist, so you have most books only show or talk of men, be it in the miniature lines or the books. Check the codices and count how often you read "men" vs "men and women".

 

This leads to a lot of people taking a glance at the material, seeing no females, and drawing conclusions. At the same time, females can be found both in the minis and the art and the texts, just a lot less often. For example, there's a grand total of five female IG miniatures, four of them are special characters, and by now they are all OOP. Cadians never had a single female mini either, yet the codex clearly mentions that everyone gets recruited into the shock troops. From past discussions on another forum, it also seems that some fans base their opinion on this topic on their personal bias against women in the armed forces.

 

That being said, it should not be forgotten that individual planets in the Imperium can absolutely be sexist, against either gender. It's just that the Imperium as a whole doesn't care - because as far as the Adeptus Administratum is concerned, you're just a number. :D

Edited by Lynata

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guys, it is right there. On the main page for Adeptus Ministorum. The one in the picture holding the chain-sword is female. Can we all go home now?

OK, that is a great example that I overlooked. I wish there were more of them.

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The artwork in FFG's books is surprisingly egalitarian in general, compared to the rest of the franchise. There's a few pictures with rather odd artistic choices (high heels do not go so well with a military uniform), but all in all it is commendable. Certainly an area where Games Workshop themselves could learn from them.

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