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Explosive Ewok

Is Soontir Fel broken?

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Don't think he is broken; just plain boring and unimaginative!

 

A lot of green dice, does not mean you are a good (X-wing) player...

I'd argue that the strength of Fel isn't in his green dice, it's in his maneuverability and flexibility.  Turtling up behind a pile of evade and focus tokens only happens when you haven't been able to fly out of arc, after all.  The best green dice are the ones you never have to roll.

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Wow, this thread takes me back to Wave 2.

That is, before people learned how to block Soontir. :P

Yep. Blocking still kills Soontir pretty quick. The only reason he doesn't get blocked all the time now is that he outmanoeuvres large ships easily, and they dominate the Meta at the moment.

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well that's not what "broken" implies, since he very clearly works and doesn't break the game

 

Obviously. Perhaps I should have chosen my words more carefully, broken was just the first thing that came to mind.

 

I don't mean it in a sense that he upsets the balance of the game or anything like that. You know what I'm saying, though, if you read the post. I mean that he doesn't really have any play left in him. You know what you're facing when you see his card on the table.

 

What about Backstabber?

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I'd say, Interceptors (outside PS1 and a few corner cases) are not cost efficient without PTL. This is why many of the mid PS ones that do not have an EPT slot see no play. This is not a "Soontir Fel pilot ability" problem, but a "this ship needs 2 actions to effectively arc dodge or defend with F+E so you can earn back the points spent on a ship with poor stats".

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I don't think he's broken just because of Autothrusters. There was a point in this game when you would be a laughing stock for sinking so many points into an Interceptor.

Besides, I prefer him with TC over AT.

You can make the argument of using TC vs hull vs stealth and have good points for each.  To say you prefer TC to auto thrusters is just being contrary for the point of being contrary.  If that's what you like to fly so be it, but you seem to suggest that TC is superior to auto thrusters which it isn't.

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I don't think he's broken just because of Autothrusters. There was a point in this game when you would be a laughing stock for sinking so many points into an Interceptor.

Besides, I prefer him with TC over AT.

You can make the argument of using TC vs hull vs stealth and have good points for each.  To say you prefer TC to auto thrusters is just being contrary for the point of being contrary.  If that's what you like to fly so be it, but you seem to suggest that TC is superior to auto thrusters which it isn't.

I think it being superior or not is actually up for debate. If the meta had no turrets, for example, you would be on the arc dodging flank with Fel far more often, making TC more useful. AT is not useful if Fel isn't getting shot at. Even with Turrets in the meta, the choice is pretty squad dependent. If you have another threat (Whisper, maybe) who is getting the brunt of the focus, then Fel needs to be dealing consistent damage to be worth his 30+ pt investment, at least in a timed game.

Also, I ran an Oicunn + Fel list as part of an escalation tournament. Fel had PTL + TC + Hull. I think it was just as effective as the common Fel + Deci lists right now, just in a different way, and I'm pretty certain due to Net Decking and Tournament success, I have seen no one running it.

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Even without going against turrets, ATs is pretty good. Usually even with careful play Fel will likely find himself in arc, especially at range 3 where the arc is widest. Pre-ATs, how many people have lost Fel range 3 with SD or whatever when you just blanked out dice? I know I've had. ATs is a nice insurance policy to avoid those range 3 shots.

Edited by Jo Jo

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well that's not what "broken" implies, since he very clearly works and doesn't break the game

 

Obviously. Perhaps I should have chosen my words more carefully, broken was just the first thing that came to mind.

 

I don't mean it in a sense that he upsets the balance of the game or anything like that. You know what I'm saying, though, if you read the post. I mean that he doesn't really have any play left in him. You know what you're facing when you see his card on the table.

 

What about Backstabber?

 

 

I'm not sure what you mean. Backstabber only has the option for a Modification. Clearly the more upgrade slots you have the more variety you can potentially have. Soontir may not have as many slots as, say, an Aggressor, but Interceptors still have enough to give them some form of variety.

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I don't think he's broken just because of Autothrusters. There was a point in this game when you would be a laughing stock for sinking so many points into an Interceptor.

Besides, I prefer him with TC over AT.

You can make the argument of using TC vs hull vs stealth and have good points for each.  To say you prefer TC to auto thrusters is just being contrary for the point of being contrary.  If that's what you like to fly so be it, but you seem to suggest that TC is superior to auto thrusters which it isn't.

I think it being superior or not is actually up for debate. If the meta had no turrets, for example,....

 

Well the meta DOES have turrets, lots of them.  I am not speculating about what would be a better choice if the meta were this or that.  Given the current meta auto thrusters is the best choice.

 

I agree though that AT, hull/stealth Fel can be kind of meh in damage.  I won a store championship and another 40 player tournament running AT, TC.

Edited by Pogie

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well that's not what "broken" implies, since he very clearly works and doesn't break the game

 

Obviously. Perhaps I should have chosen my words more carefully, broken was just the first thing that came to mind.

 

I don't mean it in a sense that he upsets the balance of the game or anything like that. You know what I'm saying, though, if you read the post. I mean that he doesn't really have any play left in him. You know what you're facing when you see his card on the table.

So what you are saying is he is boring then...or his build is anyway.

 

 

 

Hes not as good as Turr IMO.  I have a really good K/D with him.  Most the time Turr doesnt die ether.

 

So if I'm understanding you right, not only do you run two interceptors regularly but they're usually not carrying Autothrusters or PTL. And then this combination consistently wins games, with Fel playing second fiddle to Turr who doesn't die.

What kind of meta do you play in where not only are your dice that forgiving, but Gunner/Vader turrets don't exist?

Soontir Fel relies so much on his action economy, arc-dodging, and shooting first that I'm struggling to see how the loss of upgrades that enhance 2/3 of those is viable. I mean, sure it'd be super fun to try but I certainly wouldn't bring it to the table expecting to roll over my opponent. 

 

Can you tell us what your opponent's usually fly?

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thurr is quite good, though, to be fair

 

he's the only int I wouldn't run with PTL (apart from those that can't use epts obv :P) as V.I and his ability gives you a miniature soontir for a relevant discount (2 down from soontir, 2 down from ptl for a not insignificant 4 point base)

 

plus he and soonts are the only PS 9 ints

 

action stacking does make soonts superior in my book, but Thurr has some advantages in cost and stress independence

Edited by ficklegreendice

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thurr is quite good, though, to be fair

 

he's the only int I wouldn't run with PTL (apart from those that can't use epts obv :P) as V.I and his ability gives you a miniature soontir for a relevant discount (2 down from soontir, 2 down from ptl for a not insignificant 4 point base)

 

plus he and soonts are the only PS 9 ints

 

action stacking does make soonts superior in my book, but Thurr has some advantages in cost and stress independence

 

you are forgetting the often overlooked Tetran Cowell with V.I. he can be a 9 as well. Although SoT is better on him.

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Even without going against turrets, ATs is pretty good. Usually even with careful play Fel will likely find himself in arc, especially at range 3 where the arc is widest. Pre-ATs, how many people have lost Fel range 3 with SD or whatever when you just blanked out dice? I know I've had. ATs is a nice insurance policy to avoid those range 3 shots.

Don't get me wrong, I agree, and I wouldn't run TC + SD. However, you can instead run TC + Shield/Hull and lean on that extra hull a bit, letting you use some more offensive actions, and also get some powerful range 1 shots that PS kill ships. Without TC, I rarely feel confident when I consider trying to PS kill a ship in order to prevent it shooting. and Fel living is great, sure, but you need to kill ships to win, not just arc dodge and take focus only mildly unreliable shots.

When I see people lose with Fel + Decimator, it isn't that they can't keep Fel alive. The issue is if Fel is left to mop up due to Decimator biting the dust, they aren't always able to roll the red dice necessary to get points before time was called, which is a major pain. Yada yada, they are still winning often, mostly in Deci+Fel builds, yada yada, I'm still on the fence about AT+ SD/Hull vs TC+AT Fel, and maybe prefer TC over AT when only have 1 or the other.

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