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Explosive Ewok

Is Soontir Fel broken?

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No, Soontir is not broken.

 

This Sunday I was in a small 8-man tournament. 4 Lists where Soontir + Echo or Whisper + another TIE-I, usually Royal Guard.

 

I faced Soontir lists all 3 of my games and he came down with a big boom every single time.

I flew 2x Red, 2x Bandit, 1x Dagger+Ion+AdvS.

 

The only list I lost to was the Echo list. Echo took down all of my 5 ships single handedly, after killing off Auto-Soontir and Auto-Royal, simply because I didn't have the PS + he rolled like a beast - but that's dice for you.

 

The bad thing about Soontir is that he flies as one of the last ships, which means you can often plan where he's going and deny him his actions by making him bump you or fly past you. In my list anyway as I focus on more ships with lower PS.

 

So, I don't consider Soontir broken but I still consider Echo broken.

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I ask because there is one way to play him, and one set of cards to use with him. 

 

Somebody somewhere made the joke that they might as well have just included PTL into the cost of him, made him 30 points and handed out a stress token with a focus and evade glued to the sides. 

 

So, nobody takes Fel without PTL, and these days nobody takes him without Autothrusters. The only card up for any debate is the last card, which is typically Stealth Device. You could use Hull Upgrade or Target Lock, but in a competitive setting, most people stick with Stealth.

 

This game is amazing because there's no "one way" to play any of the pilots... except Mr. Fel here. All other pilots have a wide variety of things you could do with them to make them either hard hitting or defensive or a mixture of both. Maybe even some crazy combo nobody has put together yet and used effectively.

 

I do love playing him and he's challenging to face, my only observation is that when you see Fel from across the table, you basically already know what he has and how he'll be played. Anyone else and you need to see what upgrades they have before you get a good idea of what is to come.

 

What do you think?

 

 

I don't agree with you.  The best Baron Fel is a toss up between Fel+ RGI+PTM+TC+SD or Fel+RGI+Oppertunisy+TC+SD.  With the last build Oppertunixt  worls like PTL except your "action" is an additional damage dice and you get a focus because you get stressed using Oppertunist.

 

I think AT is a waste of points, if you dont want your boost craft killed, kill the enemy fast and or stay out of their firing arcs.  Problem solved.  Without question if my Fel took on another Fel built with AT it will be killed by my 1st or 2nd Fel build 99% of the time in a 1 on 1 battle.

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man Black Knight, I wish I had your apparent luck with green dice because PWTs sure as **** kill me in a straight up dice-off if I don't have thrusters :P

 

it might have something to do with the fact  that 13 or 16 health + 2/1 guaranteed damage cancellation will beat out 3 health with 1 evade and green dice...maybe

 

 

I'll try the arc-dodging option, though. That seems exceptionally viable :)

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I swear either BKL is a very dedicated troll, or he doesn't really ever play X-wing outside of his basement.

 

Opportunist on Fel is just laughable. That's a good way to get Fel killed in 1 round of combat.

Edited by Jo Jo

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I ask because there is one way to play him, and one set of cards to use with him. 

 

Somebody somewhere made the joke that they might as well have just included PTL into the cost of him, made him 30 points and handed out a stress token with a focus and evade glued to the sides. 

 

So, nobody takes Fel without PTL, and these days nobody takes him without Autothrusters. The only card up for any debate is the last card, which is typically Stealth Device. You could use Hull Upgrade or Target Lock, but in a competitive setting, most people stick with Stealth.

 

This game is amazing because there's no "one way" to play any of the pilots... except Mr. Fel here. All other pilots have a wide variety of things you could do with them to make them either hard hitting or defensive or a mixture of both. Maybe even some crazy combo nobody has put together yet and used effectively.

 

I do love playing him and he's challenging to face, my only observation is that when you see Fel from across the table, you basically already know what he has and how he'll be played. Anyone else and you need to see what upgrades they have before you get a good idea of what is to come.

 

What do you think?

 

 

I don't agree with you.  The best Baron Fel is a toss up between Fel+ RGI+PTM+TC+SD or Fel+RGI+Oppertunisy+TC+SD.  With the last build Oppertunixt  worls like PTL except your "action" is an additional damage dice and you get a focus because you get stressed using Oppertunist.

 

I think AT is a waste of points, if you dont want your boost craft killed, kill the enemy fast and or stay out of their firing arcs.  Problem solved.  Without question if my Fel took on another Fel built with AT it will be killed by my 1st or 2nd Fel build 99% of the time in a 1 on 1 battle.

 

 

I fail to see how Opportunist is even remotely good on Fel. The whole card hinges on the fact that your enemy has no focus or evades. Being PS9, Fel shoots before almost everything out there, especially in the current meta with everything being lower PS. Shooting first means everyone is freshly tokened up, so the card doesn't trigger, meaning you wasted points and don't even get a second action to boot.

 

The ideal situation for Opportunist is to put it on a low PS pilot so that all the other higher PS pilots have an opportunity to use those tokens.

Edited by Explosive Ewok

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No, Soontir is not broken.  I consider his optimal build to be TC+AT+PTL, but that's because in a clutch moment the TC will serve you better than a stealth device or something similar.  Now, around here nobody runs vader crew either. 

Even at that build (of 34) points, its really a 36 or 37 point ship because you NEED to give initiative away so he moves last to arc dodge.  Your build has to come it at 97 or 98 points due to Soontir.  I don't think people really account for all his costs correctly. 

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This game is amazing because there's no "one way" to play any of the pilots... except Mr. Fel here. All other pilots have a wide variety of things you could do with them to make them either hard hitting or defensive or a mixture of both. Maybe even some crazy combo nobody has put together yet and used effectively.

Tarn Mison and his R7 disagree.
You might alslo go as far as saying that now Imperial Kath Scarlet Or Ten Numb won't leave home without a Mangler Cannon.

Or Corran Horn forgetting his FCS as well as stealing R2-D2 from "that other Jedi dude."

Or Han Solo or Chewie not bringing our beloved Protocol Droid.

Or Dash without the Outrider Title.

Or Vader (any TIE advanced pilot) without the X/1 Title (and, in Vader's case the Adv. targeting Computer and Engine Upgrade).

Or Kyle Katarn without Moldy Crow.

Or Nera without DeadEye (perhaps this is stretching it).

Or Fell's Wrath without Outmaneuver. Nah, just kidding.

Actually I took top 8 at a 20+ person store championship using nera with swarm tactics and I routinely run imp Kath with only calculation, way to often she's shooting out the back. Many here have made a pretty compelling case for Advanced sensors on Corran Horn as well. I'll agree that fel isn't the only pilot with auto includes, but to the OP I think its fine that Soontir is fairly optimized. Different mods are pretty common when he's not hanging out with a fat turret.

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Doesn't broken mean overly powerful? Soontir Fel looks like he's designed to work with stressing abilities. The only other two are Daredevil, Elusiveness and Opportunist, and none of them work as nearly well except maybe Opportunist. I don't think a strong synergy with an upgrade card makes it broken. Emon and Andrasta, for example.

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Soontir is the furthest from broken as you can get.  IMO.  Sure he is powerful and he is used a lot especially with the new autothrusters.  But that so called optimal build is 36 points for a ship with that can only take 4 hits.  But that isn't why I say he isn't broken.

 

He's not broken because he requires skill.  He is possibly the best arc dodger in the game.  But arc dodging isn't easy.  If I play against Soontir and get beat by him, I have usually seen him do some pretty amazing things.

 

Not only does he have all the disadvantages associated with all arc dodgers, but he also is is very susceptible to stress.  If Soontir is trying to kill someone with a rebel captive on board, you have just eliminated so much of what you paid those 36 points for.

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That's why you just run them both with big daddy Palpatine in his shuttle watching their backs.

 

we are entering a golden age of x-wing, my friends

 

or perhaps the dark ages, depending on how aligned you are with the good emperor's goals

I'm so excited to run that build, those two are monsters and then Palpatine saves them on the rare chance they completely and totally whiff green dice.

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The nice thing about X-wing is that it is not just 1 ship that makes the list but all up to 100 points that you use. Sure there is one optimal way to play soontir fel but soontir doesn't make a list by himself. Even Han solo has to bring friends thus not be solo. (Haha Han pun)

 

However, even if there is an optimal way that removes much of tha variety there still is a little variety. Sure PTL is always played with Soontir, sure Han almost always has C-3PO. However With royal guard pilot Soontir can take another modification. So even if PTL+AT Soontir is the norm, the question is do you include HU, SU, or SD as the 2nd modification slot? Each of those different upgrades does make a difference to how Soontir is played even if it is a subtle difference in performance. Even Fat Han has some variance in the ship build itself along with the list as a whole.

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Has anyone tried Fel with Experimental Interface, Expert Handling and Auto-Thrusters?

 

Expert Handling would let him have the added benefit of shedding target locks when he adjusts position.

It is a possibility but for EI to work the expert handling would have to be chosen constantly as Soontir needs the stress for his ability to trigger. Having to do a barrel roll each turn or miss out on the extra focus might not give you the best options.

 

However that does give potential options to Soontie Fel. You could try EI Soontir Fel Expose and use the evade action to trigger EI so you end up trading 1 green dice for an evade token and a 4-5 dice attack and still have room for autothrusters.

 

However EI is far more restrictive than PTL is and it was designed that way. With Soontir the only upgrades you could use EI with is EPTs with an action. They are not really that many. You have

  • expose
  • marksmanship
  • daredevil
  • squad leader (another unique)

Keep in mind with soontir you would need to use that upgrade each turn. I already explained the effects of expose. Marksmanship is sort of an offensive focus and getting a focus for defense seems a little redundant. Daredevil + EI will double stress so you would have 2 focus tokens for that turn then have to skip a whole turn of having nothing which will leave soontir vulnerable. Squad leader is more suited for a support role which might not be the best roll for a Tie Interceptor even one like soontir fel.

Edited by Marinealver

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well that's not what "broken" implies, since he very clearly works and doesn't break the game

 

Obviously. Perhaps I should have chosen my words more carefully, broken was just the first thing that came to mind.

 

I don't mean it in a sense that he upsets the balance of the game or anything like that. You know what I'm saying, though, if you read the post. I mean that he doesn't really have any play left in him. You know what you're facing when you see his card on the table.

So what you are saying is he is boring then...or his build is anyway.

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man Black Knight, I wish I had your apparent luck with green dice because PWTs sure as **** kill me in a straight up dice-off if I don't have thrusters :P

 

it might have something to do with the fact  that 13 or 16 health + 2/1 guaranteed damage cancellation will beat out 3 health with 1 evade and green dice...maybe

 

 

I'll try the arc-dodging option, though. That seems exceptionally viable :)

 

Unless your sure you going kill the enemy piece in your sights, and have the match result in a victory, you shouldnt be in your enemies firing arc.  I was hoping they would make a EPT card that lets you slow down too speed 1 during the movement phase, Juno has that ability so I can pretty much count on that ability ever showing up as a EPT.  If it did I would take that over most EPTs.

 

 

 

I ask because there is one way to play him, and one set of cards to use with him. 

 

Somebody somewhere made the joke that they might as well have just included PTL into the cost of him, made him 30 points and handed out a stress token with a focus and evade glued to the sides. 

 

So, nobody takes Fel without PTL, and these days nobody takes him without Autothrusters. The only card up for any debate is the last card, which is typically Stealth Device. You could use Hull Upgrade or Target Lock, but in a competitive setting, most people stick with Stealth.

 

This game is amazing because there's no "one way" to play any of the pilots... except Mr. Fel here. All other pilots have a wide variety of things you could do with them to make them either hard hitting or defensive or a mixture of both. Maybe even some crazy combo nobody has put together yet and used effectively.

 

I do love playing him and he's challenging to face, my only observation is that when you see Fel from across the table, you basically already know what he has and how he'll be played. Anyone else and you need to see what upgrades they have before you get a good idea of what is to come.

 

What do you think?

 

 

I don't agree with you.  The best Baron Fel is a toss up between Fel+ RGI+PTM+TC+SD or Fel+RGI+Oppertunisy+TC+SD.  With the last build Oppertunixt  worls like PTL except your "action" is an additional damage dice and you get a focus because you get stressed using Oppertunist.

 

I think AT is a waste of points, if you dont want your boost craft killed, kill the enemy fast and or stay out of their firing arcs.  Problem solved.  Without question if my Fel took on another Fel built with AT it will be killed by my 1st or 2nd Fel build 99% of the time in a 1 on 1 battle.

 

 

I fail to see how Opportunist is even remotely good on Fel. The whole card hinges on the fact that your enemy has no focus or evades. Being PS9, Fel shoots before almost everything out there, especially in the current meta with everything being lower PS. Shooting first means everyone is freshly tokened up, so the card doesn't trigger, meaning you wasted points and don't even get a second action to boot.

 

The ideal situation for Opportunist is to put it on a low PS pilot so that all the other higher PS pilots have an opportunity to use those tokens.

 

 

I always have a +2 Turr sometimes with RGI + SD + TC.  Anything I want to hit with Oppertunist Fel I hit it first with +2 Turr.

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well that's not what "broken" implies, since he very clearly works and doesn't break the game

 

Obviously. Perhaps I should have chosen my words more carefully, broken was just the first thing that came to mind.

 

I don't mean it in a sense that he upsets the balance of the game or anything like that. You know what I'm saying, though, if you read the post. I mean that he doesn't really have any play left in him. You know what you're facing when you see his card on the table.

So what you are saying is he is boring then...or his build is anyway.

 

 

 

Hes not as good as Turr IMO.  I have a really good K/D with him.  Most the time Turr doesnt die ether.

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you can run different soontir's.

 

I showed 1 I have flown a few times with pretty good results, it gives him the ability to hammer a crit in there.

 

but you can also make him a hammer with:

opportunist

auto thrusters

RG

stealth

 

not as agile, but rolling 3-5 attack dice with a bonus focus. could be the extra punch he needs

 

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well that's not what "broken" implies, since he very clearly works and doesn't break the game

 

Obviously. Perhaps I should have chosen my words more carefully, broken was just the first thing that came to mind.

 

I don't mean it in a sense that he upsets the balance of the game or anything like that. You know what I'm saying, though, if you read the post. I mean that he doesn't really have any play left in him. You know what you're facing when you see his card on the table.

So what you are saying is he is boring then...or his build is anyway.

 

More or less, Yeah i will say the topic is a little misleading. But then again it depends on what term you use for broken. For us we think broken means OP but in this context it means that there is no variety. Sontir only works one way and he is the only Interceptor pilot that works.

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Nope he's really strong but has a number of hard counters like Vader multiple ways to pile stress onto him and of course green dice hate him.

He can't regenerate shields like some ships so he's no more survivable than a headhunter.

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I don't think he's broken just because of Autothrusters. There was a point in this game when you would be a laughing stock for sinking so many points into an Interceptor.

Besides, I prefer him with TC over AT.

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well that's not what "broken" implies, since he very clearly works and doesn't break the game

 

Obviously. Perhaps I should have chosen my words more carefully, broken was just the first thing that came to mind.

 

I don't mean it in a sense that he upsets the balance of the game or anything like that. You know what I'm saying, though, if you read the post. I mean that he doesn't really have any play left in him. You know what you're facing when you see his card on the table.

So what you are saying is he is boring then...or his build is anyway.

More or less, Yeah i will say the topic is a little misleading. But then again it depends on what term you use for broken. For us we think broken means OP but in this context it means that there is no variety. Sontir only works one way and he is the only Interceptor pilot that works.

He's not they only int pilot that works...turr is quite good and they rgp still makes a good budget interceptor.

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As good as fel has gotten with auto thrusters, and even with the phantom decloak nerf, I'd still rather face fel over whisper.

 

Why?

 

Mainly because while he's usually better defensively, especially when turtled up, the weaker offense is a lot more forgiving.  He has one less attack dice, no fcs, and probably no target lock option period unless he took targeting computer.  Also even with the nerf still easier to block than whisper.

 

EDIT: Also has one less hit point to get through (unless has a hull/shield upgrade, and is easier to crit.

Edited by markcsoul

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