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bigsteveuk

Give 'Em a Break

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Come on guys give ‘em a break, I expect they are as annoyed and disappointed as us.


Do you think they want the book delayed, do you think they don’t want your money. I don’t expect part of the business plan was to delay the release or annoy its potential investors.


Also after the grief your giving them I wouldn’t ever give a release date again, in fact I probably wouldn’t even tell you about another game or supplement till it’s printed and in my warehouse!!! gui%C3%B1o.gif

 

 

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Honestly I'm an insanely patient guy, but even I am beginning to grind my teeth a little. I wouldn't mind too much, but that latest RT developer's diary was an absolute slap in the face. Drip-feeding players to maintain their enthusiasm is all well and good, I approve, even. But drip feed them something good, not garbage like that last article. I think a lot of people voiced their frustration at once at that particular article for a reason.

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Even a simple statement such as "An unexpected delay in printing and shipping as occured, we regret this inconvenience to our valued customers and we will have and update for you as soon as possible. Until then, please enjoy this PDF preview of the introductory adventure for Rogue Trader. It can be played with the characters from Forsaken Bounty and includes two new PCs for your use."

Heck, they could even then charge me $4.95 for the PDF.

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Oh, knock it off! I will not, as a customer, lay off a company that repeatedly fobs me off.  If it were possible I'd take my buisness elsewhere, since I can't I'll make it very clear how dissatisfied I am. And I'll stop complaining when the problem is fixed.

And once more

It's not the waiting that is the problem - it's the sliding release date. If you can't get it done for a date (Or have doubts about whether you will) don't say you'll release it then

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 Well the thing is the book is FINISHED. So saying "well they're spending the time making it better!" is simply not true. It's done, it's printed, that's it. We are just waiting for those puppies to reach our gaming tables at this point. gui%C3%B1o.gif

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The problem is the designer diaries as of late have been a slap in the face, and people are feeling like FFG is just talking at us and ignoring the comments people are saying. In regards to this topic It becomes harder to communicate with companies when fans leap to there defence, there big boys now I think someone can post somthing in relation to whats being said and  since the response from this top seems to pretty much be what I thought I'd say no more about it.

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Tullio said:

Oh, knock it off! I will not, as a customer, lay off a company that repeatedly fobs me off.  If it were possible I'd take my buisness elsewhere, since I can't I'll make it very clear how dissatisfied I am. And I'll stop complaining when the problem is fixed.

And once more

It's not the waiting that is the problem - it's the sliding release date. If you can't get it done for a date (Or have doubts about whether you will) don't say you'll release it then

In what way have you been fobbed off, let alone repeatedly?

The only announced release date has been 'Fall'.

It's actually rare in the industry for release dates to be given. Small Press companies doing their printing by Lulu can do it, and as for the larger companies, it's less than a handful that do so with any regularity.

There has been no sliding release date.

Other companies likewise had product shipped from their overseas printers to GenCon in order to sell/preview copies there. Products such as Eclipse Phase or Seattle 2072, both by Catalyst Games have, likewise, not been released to stores yet. Both are, likewise, in transit.

It takes a minimum amount of time to load a truck, get it to the docks, load a container, load said container onto a ship and then transit the Pacific, offload in the US and then get the pallet(s) to FFG's warehouse. Then to get the product to the distributors then from the distributors to your FLGS.

Across multiple industries, companies are frequently loathe to give hard street dates until the product is finished and/or at a stage at which they can reliably inform their customers. Writers are becoming more and more loathe to promise to have a book done by X time because of the frequently insulting demands placed upon them by their customers ('fans'). Computer Game companies use 'when it's done' as their answer for 'when will x game/expansion be released' and in this industry, most companies don't announce a firm street date until the book is in their warehouse.

FFG have, to the best of my knowledge, not deceived anyone. They've not announced any dates. The release date has 'slid' in the minds of the potential customers.

The book will be out when it's out. Based on the update to their 'upcoming' notification page, and based on shipping times and so forth I'd personally estimate the 2nd half of October, but it depends on too many unknown factors for that to be anything more than a guess.

As for finding the developer blogs and extra information insulting or the ever-mature 'slap in the face', I can only wonder at what would be being said if no marketing or promotion was being done at all.

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1) There are approximately three months left in Fall.  So FFG is well within its "Fall" release window.

2) If you have a complaint, call or email customer support.

3) Patience leads to foresight and helps you to think before you act, a trait which is beneficial in most situations.

4) Pages 179 to 186 are fascinating!

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Cervantes3773 said:

4) Pages 179 to 186 are fascinating!

 

You sir have won the internets. Seriously though, it will show up when it does. It would be nice if they could tell us what the delay is but there are always decisions going on behind the scenes about what to reveal and what to hide. PR is never easy (as you can tell from this forum). If they want to tell us cool. If not... *shrug*.  If you need something to occupy your time check out www.eclipsephase.com/game. You can order it as a pdf or (legally) download it for free (although if you do please consider buying it) and be playing it tonight.

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It's frustrating how many people on these boards seem to act like it's their god-given right that FFG give them "their" book...

I have ordered the CE, and yes it can get frustrating, and I know that the below response will annoy a lot of people but y'know what? I've never really cared who I annoy or when, so why let that hold me back now gran_risa.gif

"It will be shipped when it is shipped, and it will arrive at your door when it arrives at your door. No sooner, no later."

I am very grateful to the FFG team AND the current owners of the book for giving us the little tasters that we've had, but when all's said and done, it's just a book for Christ's sake.

Some people really need to grow up...

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Space Monkey said:

It's frustrating how many people on these boards seem to act like it's their god-given right that FFG give them "their" book...

I have ordered the CE, and yes it can get frustrating, and I know that the below response will annoy a lot of people but y'know what? I've never really cared who I annoy or when, so why let that hold me back now gran_risa.gif

"It will be shipped when it is shipped, and it will arrive at your door when it arrives at your door. No sooner, no later."

I am very grateful to the FFG team AND the current owners of the book for giving us the little tasters that we've had, but when all's said and done, it's just a book for Christ's sake.

Some people really need to grow up...

 

 

I agree with you totally.

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Its my right to get the book I paid for. If they have a delay the worse thing they could do is keep silent about it, especially to their customers. So far they have keep their mouths shut. Whatever happened to treating the customer as king? Suppose it has to do with the new corporate age of "You don't like it then get the hell out my shop!"

Oh and these diaries they release are insulting. Would it really hurt them to release some more excerpts from the book? No instead they give us the names of few items and tell us about what is essentially their personal life. While that is nice, I'd rather save that for when the book is already out.

 

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Space Monkey said:

It's frustrating how many people on these boards seem to act like it's their god-given right that FFG give them "their" book...

 

Yeah, because those people who have had money taken out of their accounts for a book that hasn't been released to them yet and may not be released in the foreseeable future, arnn't entitled to complain?  In my experience any company that takes money from your account in exchange for a product has entered into a contract with you and is obligated to provide the service the payment was provided for.  The absolute lack of communication to paying customers who want to know when their product can be expected is downright disgraceful.  Demanding respect from the people you have paid to provide a service does not indicate some misguided sense of entitlement nor is it indicative of a lack of maturity, it is one of the fundamental principles on which good business practices are built.

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I have never seen so much unwarranted whining over the release of an RPG. Seriously - it'll be out when it's out. Prior experience has taught companies that it's best to keep their mouths shut over matters like this, so that's what FFG are doing.

Get over it.

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nos4artu said:

In my experience any company that takes money from your account in exchange for a product has entered into a contract with you and is obligated to provide the service the payment was provided for. 

They are providing the service. The fact these people you're championing don't have the book yet doesn't mean they won't have the book. You're rabblerousing and are woefully short of the mark legally and ethically. Until, and unless, it goes past 'Fall' FFG have no obligation to tell anyone anything as the book is still 'on schedule'.

 

Yes, it would be nice, but as someone who's been in publishing for many years now, i can tell you that you never want to announce something on the basis of it having gone onto a ship. In general, for 'mainstream' publishing you might have the book sitting in your warehouse for a few weeks before it goes out to stores because of publishing windows and so forth. You can't, however, do that in rpg publishign given the tightness of the margins and assorted other reasons. As such RPG publishing, with the exception of a very few companies, does not operate on exact release dates months in advance. Instead rough month expectations are given.

FFG haven't misled anyone, they haven't deceived anyone and the book is not late. So other than feeling entitled to do so because complaining on the internet is the new conversation, why are you moaning about something that isn't wrong?

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Usually when a book of any kind is released/sold/otherwise up for order it appears on or within a week or so of that date. Nobody is demanding a product faster than it can be shipped. What people (Again, paying customers) are demanding is some kind of coherency with the product. This includes talking to distributors, by the way.

Besides which, as a consumer I don't get a better service unless I complain. Since I can hardly go somewhere else and let market forces take effect, it's the only option I have

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Tullio said:

Usually when a book of any kind is released/sold/otherwise up for order it appears on or within a week or so of that date. Nobody is demanding a product faster than it can be shipped. What people (Again, paying customers) are demanding is some kind of coherency with the product. This includes talking to distributors, by the way.

Besides which, as a consumer I don't get a better service unless I complain. Since I can hardly go somewhere else and let market forces take effect, it's the only option I have

 

Except it hasn't been released yet. Pre-release copies were available at Gen Con. Just as pre-release copies of dozens of other books by other game companies were available at Gen Con. And, like Rogue Trader, those pre-release books have mostly not been released either (this being dependant on where they're printed). So, there is no lack of coherency.

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Evilref said:

Except it hasn't been released yet. Pre-release copies were available at Gen Con. Just as pre-release copies of dozens of other books by other game companies were available at Gen Con. And, like Rogue Trader, those pre-release books have mostly not been released either (this being dependant on where they're printed). So, there is no lack of coherency.

Was it explicitly stated that the copies were pre-release?  I can't recall.

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Cervantes3773 said:

1) There are approximately three months left in Fall.  So FFG is well within its "Fall" release window.

2) If you have a complaint, call or email customer support.

3) Patience leads to foresight and helps you to think before you act, a trait which is beneficial in most situations.

4) Pages 179 to 186 are fascinating!

1. I didn't know "late September release!" meant Fall. gui%C3%B1o.gif

2. Already did. gui%C3%B1o.gif

3. Yup... now when's the book coming out? gui%C3%B1o.gif

4. Cool. gui%C3%B1o.gif

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