Which fleet has the most raw damage?

[DraconPyrothayan 6,107]

Mobility? Ignore it.
Defense? Fageddaboudit.

Pilot Skill? Who cares?

I just want the fleet who expects to deal the greatest amount of your damage deck against you turn after turn.

 

Any challengers?

[comawhite 409]

If i had to guess its 4 B's with FCS

[TasteTheRainbow 8,492]

4 btl thugs with blaster turrets and agromechs. 96 points. Against a decimator that damage would be extremely hard to top.

That's 8 usually-unmodified and 12 Target-locked dice per turn. It can get better if you roll well the turn before.

20 dice, minimum 12 modified.

Edited June 2, 2015 by TasteTheRainbow

[Sparklelord 731]

It's gotta be 4x naked Sigmas, no?

16 attack dice per round is matched by the 8 Z/TIE swarms, but the difference is twice as many dice per attack, so defender dice matter less.

[failedparachute 146]

Keyan Farlander (40)
B-Wing (29), Heavy Laser Cannon (7), Opportunist (4)

Jan Ors (30)
HWK-290 (25), Ion Cannon Turret (5)

Wes Janson (30)
X-Wing (29), Veteran Instincts (1)

 

100 Points

 

Two three dice attacks each round followed by a 6 dice attack. Pretty good for dropping a Decimator in two turns, or punching through high agility targets.

[ParaGoomba Slayer 3,180]

4 Phantoms. One volley someone's fattie off the map.

[stmack 467]

4x Alpha + 1x Sigma w FCS. Replace an Alpha with Howlrunner if rerolls count as raw.

[DraconPyrothayan 6,107]

If i had to guess its 4 B's with FCS

12-16 dice, each with TL and Focus, so 7/8 possible results are damaging, so an expectation of 10.5 - 14 expected damage.

 

4 btl thugs with blaster turrets and agromechs. 96 points. Against a decimator that damage would be extremely hard to top.

That's 8 usually-unmodified and 12 Target-locked dice per turn. It can get better if you roll well the turn before.

20 dice, minimum 12 modified.

8-12 unmodified numbers result in damage 1/2 of the time, on average. Expected damage = 4-6

12 TL'd dice result in damage 3/4 of the time, on average. Expected damage = 9

9+4=13 - 15

This beats the FCS B-Wings.

 

 

It's gotta be 4x naked Sigmas, no?

16 attack dice per round is matched by the 8 Z/TIE swarms, but the difference is twice as many dice per attack, so defender dice matter less.

Sigmas (and HLC Scyks) tie Fighters at Range 2-3, and tie Interceptors at Range 1. 

Tie Fighters do better than the others at Range 1 in a world without mitigation (like, say, vs Decimators)

 

Incidentally, assuming Focii all around, Sigmas/Scyks/Academies expect to roll 12 damage at R2-R3, Sigmas/Scyks/Alphas expect to roll 15 damage at R1, and Academies expect to roll 18 damage at R1.

 

Sigmas/Scyks fare worse than Blagromech Y-Wings in a world without mitigation, but Academies advantage at Range 1 may outweigh their disadvantage at Range 2-3 in that same match-up.

 

Keyan Farlander (40)

B-Wing (29), Heavy Laser Cannon (7), Opportunist (4)

Jan Ors (30)

HWK-290 (25), Ion Cannon Turret (5)

Wes Janson (30)

X-Wing (29), Veteran Instincts (1)

 

100 Points

 

Two three dice attacks each round followed by a 6 dice attack. Pretty good for dropping a Decimator in two turns, or punching through high agility targets.

Similar math to the FCS  B-Wings without mitigation, but hurt in that comparison by 6 dice only having 1 action (Keyan's 6 has a Target Lock and Keyan's mutant stress token), and 3 of that 6 being Ion Cannon Turret.

That being said, 6 attack dice with TL and K'sMST is expected to result in 5.25 damage in one shot, which is tough for high-mitigation ships to survive.

 What about 3x Scimitars with 2x Cluster Missiles and Extra Munitions, and Captain Jonus?  

 

 

Good question, me!

Since you've got 4 Cluster Missile attacks on each of those Scimitars, by the time you run out the game's already decided.

That being said, that's 6 attacks of 3 dice, each with the Jonus Bonus, as well as Jonus' attack.

Each of those 6 attacks of 3 dice expects 2.1875 damage, or an expectation of 13.125, plus Jonus' attack (2-3 dice, with one offensive action, has an expectation of 1.5 damage or 2.25 damage).

14.625 at Range 2, and 15.375 at Range 1, narrowly beats out the BTL ships, with the hefty downside of having an obvious target (Jonus), whose removal hurts the fleet by appx 38% of its expected damage.

The BTL fleet is also better at Range 3, incidentally.

Edited June 2, 2015 by DraconPyrothayan

[Klutz 1,590]

If i had to guess its 4 B's with FCS

 

12-16 dice, each with TL and Focus, so 7/8 possible results are damaging, so an expectation of 10.5 - 14 expected damage.

 

That's 15/16, not 7/8.

 

3/4 chance of rolling a non-blank, and then a TL with a 3/4 chance of turning a blank into a non-blank.

 

1 - (1/4 * 1/4) = 15/16

Edited June 2, 2015 by Klutz

[Klutz 1,590]

6 Bandits with Concussion Missiles.

 

A Concussion Missile throws 4 dice, and can switch a blank to a hit for an expected 3 damage.

 

6 x 3 = 18 expected damage.

 

Of course, that's only for the alpha strike

 

 

After that, it's 2 dice with 1 action for 1.5 damage / bandit = 9 expected damage at ranges 2-3.

And 3 dice with 1 action for 2.25 damage / bandit = 13.5 expected damage at range 1.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Klutz

[Klutz 1,590]

For damage in a single round (assuming the correct setup) I think 5 Prototype A-Wings with Proton Rockets is hard to beat.

 

5 dice per ship, each with a TL (from a previous round) and a focus for an expected 4.7 damage per ship.

 

That's 23.4 expected damage in a single round.

[TasteTheRainbow 8,492]

"Turn after turn" the cluster mass damage falls off as well. BTL damage actually goes up after first turn on average due to unspent target locks hanging around.

If we're just doing single-round burst...

Corran Horn — E-Wing 35

Marksmanship 3

Fire-Control System 2

Advanced Proton Torpedoes 6

Experimental Interface 3

Ship Total: 49

Green Squadron Pilot — A-Wing 19

Push the Limit 3

Proton Rockets 3

Ship Total: 25

Green Squadron Pilot — A-Wing 19

Push the Limit 3

Proton Rockets

Edited June 2, 2015 by TasteTheRainbow

[DraconPyrothayan 6,107]

4x Alpha + 1x Sigma w FCS. Replace an Alpha with Howlrunner if rerolls count as raw.

Oooh, interesting.

4x Alphas at Range 2-3 have 4*3*3/4 expected damage, also known as 9.

Sigma with FCS has 1*4*7/8 expected damage, also known as 3.5.  Total of 12.5, but high amounts of dice mitigation.

At Range 1, that becomes 4*4*3/4 and 1*5*7/8 respectively, or 12 and 4.325, for a total of 16.375

 

The spread of this fleet is better than 4x Sigma/Scyk, surprisingly enough.

 

Now, Howlrunner isn't going to improve the Sigma with FCS; it's got better re-rolls already.

So, are 3x Alphas + Howlrunner better than 4x Alphas?

The 3x Alphas here expect 2.68359375 damage per attack, or 8.05078125 between the three, at Range 2-3

Howlrunner expects 1.5 damage per attack, so 9.55078125 with the Interceptors, again at Range 2-3.

 

Add in the Sigma from earlier, and you have 12.55078125 at Range 2-3, which is barely higher, but still technically so.

[DraconPyrothayan 6,107]

 

If i had to guess its 4 B's with FCS

 

12-16 dice, each with TL and Focus, so 7/8 possible results are damaging, so an expectation of 10.5 - 14 expected damage.

 

That's 15/16, not 7/8.

 

3/4 chance of rolling a non-blank, and then a TL with a 3/4 chance of turning a blank into a non-blank.

 

1 - (1/4 * 1/4) = 15/16

 

Herpaderp. Go ahead and add (Total Dice)/16 to the damage, and that'll fix it.

11.25 to 15, looks like. 

 

 

"Turn after turn" the cluster mass damage falls off as well. BTL damage actually goes up after first turn on average due to unspent target locks hanging around.

Again, a fair point.

 

My cluster fleet has 4 rounds of attacks with the stuff, so it doesn't really count as an Alpha-Strike fleet by my mark anymore, but for THEM I have the following to consider:

 

4x Tempest + TIE/x1 + Accuracy Corrector + Cluster Missiles. Expected damage on the round of attack is 17, and on each additional round is 8 at Range 2-3, and at Range 1 are 9.6875 when actioning offensively.

Vs the ProtoProckets, which have 23.4 expected damage on the Alpha round, and 7.5 to 11.25... yeah, if you're including target locks from previous rounds and I'm not, yours is definitely burstier.

And if you're not, mine's MAXIMUM damage is 24, so I'd need some serious luck on the rolls to catch up to the 23.4 expected damage figure you're listing.

Edited June 2, 2015 by DraconPyrothayan

[DraconPyrothayan 6,107]

Now, all that being said, the reason I thought up this thread in the first place:

A Han at his Fattest has expected damage reduction of 3+3/8*(Attacks -1) per round of combat.

This assumes that every single evade result he produces/rolls negates an incoming damage, which is optimistic on his part.

 

Decimators, incidentally, have expected damage reduction of 0.

 

This brainstorming session will help us to defeat the pancakes.

BTL-A4? Jonus Clusters? They're bringing the Syrup.

[Klutz 1,590]

... to defeat the pancakes ... They're bringing the Syrup.

 

A whole thread, just so you could make that terrible pun? 

[DraconPyrothayan 6,107]

 

... to defeat the pancakes ... They're bringing the Syrup.

 

A whole thread, just so you could make that terrible pun? 

 

No, i threw that in gratis.

[MortalPlague 512]

 

... to defeat the pancakes ... They're bringing the Syrup.

 

A whole thread, just so you could make that terrible pun? 

 

 

Pancakes are a real drain on your meta-bolism.

[Ravncat 1,987]

1 sigma, 2 alphas, 3 academies

For non upgraded squads..

This gives you 16 dice (maximum possible aside from btl-a4 using + turret) , and splits it the most granularly. With 4,3,3 and 2,2,2 attack, the only rule is the 4 fire first, replace an alpha with howl for rerolls and an offense boost. This puts you at 15 + 5 rerolls (20) dice.

The power is hidden in efficiency, when you need to kill with 1 hit left, you can fire with an academy, and if the target dies, you can start on the next target with an alpha, allowing you to minimize waste of excess hits, because if you roll 3 damage after evades, but only needed 1 to kill the target, you wasted two hits.

While 4 warthog y's have the heavy firepower, that will drop more rapidly as each ship goes down, the extra ships in the swarm help keep your offense higher as you lose ships... If you lose an academy, you're down to 14 dice, over 15 after you lose the first y, and 12 dice when you lose the second tie.

Finally, warthog Y is giving 8 sets of evade dice while fcs Blues only 4, this list is in the median in defense reroll granting, those warthog y's care a lot more if they're vs agi 3 or 0, and range, blues care a bit less, this is again a bit more median.

[TIE Pilot 3,501]

BTL ships

 

Both Y-wings and the K-wing?

[TheRealStarkiller 3,445]

How about 4 times HLC?

 

Cartel Spacer (23) x 3

M3-A “Scyk” Interceptor (14), “Heavy Scyk” Interceptor (2), Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

 

Serissu (31)

M3-A “Scyk” Interceptor (20), Swarm Tactics (2), “Heavy Scyk” Interceptor (2), Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

 

= 16 reds with no defence bonus in range 3; and 2 of them fire at PS8

[Sparklelord 731]

 

Decimators, incidentally, have expected damage reduction of 0.

 

Many Decimators carry Ysanne (although she can't take effect if you kill the Decimator in a single round), and Kenkirk gets some damage mitigation. Furthermore, Determination Decimators are immune to some hits, although most choose PtL or Predator.

[Narcoleptic 304]

Wes

- R3-A2

 

Blount

- Ion Pulse Missile

- Deadeye

 

3x Bandit

- Concussion Missile

 

/100p

 

This ought to kill a pancake fairly quickly. Only issue would be 1. Get it in arc (bloody boost.. *mutters*), 2. Get TLs

Wes wastes the tokens and perhaps 3PO if you are lucky, gives stress, Blount ions and the Bandits go for the kill this or next round.

[Wretch 109]

How about this? Suhlak for 8 dice cluster missile with glitterstim and the veteran with a focus and TL. By my count a 20 dice alpha strike, 15 per round after that.

 

N'Dru Suhlak (17)

Lone Wolf (2)

Cluster Missiles (4)

Glitterstim (2)

 

Tansarii Point Veteran (17)

Push the Limit (3)

Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) (2)

 

Cartel Spacer (14)

Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) (2)

 

Cartel Spacer (14)

Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) (2)

 

Total: 100

 

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Edited June 2, 2015 by Wretch

[Gundog8324 440]

This is post Raider Squad but if you are looking for anti-Turret....

4 Tempest Squadrons+Cluster Missiles and Accuracy Corrector 16 guaranteed hit results (not counting those few rolls where you get 3 natural hits/crits and don't need it)  That is a Decimator in a single turn (and maybe a Falcon) and at that point you still get 8 hits per turn to mop up your opponent's other ships